What Are You Really Worth?

[Kev3188]

I'm a Fleet Service Lead Agent. I'm in charge of a crew of four to six agents a day. I coordinate the unloading and loading of aircraft. Depending on aircraft type I may also be in charge of weight and balance. I handle live animals, hazardous material, air starts, ground power units, de icers, air stairs, and sometimes lav carts and water carts. I am also expected to take care of scheduling and employee relations issues.
The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW

[post="234467"][/post]​

I'm in the same position as Lazarus, but at another "legacy" carrier. You can also tack on A/C cleaning, security checks and payroll for 50 guys/gals to my job list. What am I (and all of us) worth? Every nickel they pay me.

DC- Take your pot stirring, eristic attitude and shove it up your a$$.

 

[Busdrvr]

Some pilots may have made more than the President before Bush came to office; BUT, how many pilots get to fly a 747 where they want when they want? How many pilots have multiple bodyguards working for them? How many get free rent in a huge house and free food prepared by an executive chef? How many get 6 Secret service agents and an office after they retire?

[post="234484"][/post]​

And how many pilots get to have sex with college age chicks?..... Being Pres is a MUCH better deal!!!

 

[Justme]

"I agree it is challenging to fly into Europe - this is why the international language is ENGLISH - how many languages do you know?"

The controller says "Flying Tiger XX, Descend to seven zero zero". What altitude do you descend to?

[post="233687"][/post]​

DCA says "leaving 4,000 for 700". Am I right or am I wrong DCA? Are you going to do what he tells you and descend to 700'? That is what he said, right? Hurry now because you are getting closer and closer to the airport and we're still waiting for your decision....

tick....tock....tick....tock.....

 

[aafsc]

Pension
What Pension - I have to save most of my retirement (out of my pocket). I only wish I had a pension.

What is my real problem?
My problem is trying to get from point a to point b for under a 2200 unrestricted fare.

[post="233507"][/post]​

Go Greyhound! And leave the driving to them.

 

[aafsc]

some dark stormy night you are out over the midatlantic. its late december, the water below has ships heading for cover. there's a bang, a shudder, and now the plane shakes. you are at least 90mins from landing,

now bring the plane down safely with 300 people with only one engine.

upon landing ask each and every one how much am i worth?

[post="233979"][/post]​

Or, you are over the north atlantic at 40,000 feet and a fellow passenger 4 rows behind you tries to set off explosives stuffed in his shoe. A vigilant flight attendant sees this and takes action to stop him. How much is that flight attendant worth?

 

[mrman]

Or, you are over the north atlantic at 40,000 feet and a fellow passenger 4 rows behind you tries to set off explosives stuffed in his shoe. A vigilant flight attendant sees this and takes action to stop him. How much is that flight attendant worth?

[post="234610"][/post]​

The market would say your worth as much as someone in HR filling out an application would do your job for

 

[PITbull]

picture you sending your child to school

begining in late aug or early sept. and then they come home in early june some 190-200 days later. except, they do not come home after school, they do not come home for dinner, they are not home during the weekends, they do not come home during holiday periods, they simply are not home 200 days out of 365.
that is what you pay me for. that is what my time is worth. you are paying me not only for my skills but i am trading my time for cash, on average crews spend 200 days a year away from home. period.
how much am i worth? millions (check out any flight crew 4 days post 9/11 that walked thru the terminal to their respective planes and got back in the air. bear in mind more flight crew died that day than police officers) but thats not they will pay nor what will ever be offered. you earn what you get, not what you are worth, that is what they call a contract. sometimes its good, sometimes its bad. but then nobody has ever said you must do this job. that purely is by my choice until such time I choose no longer to do it.

[post="233995"][/post]​

Thank you Java boy, thank you.

 

[Jennyann]

Well said Java Boy.......Thanks

 

[aafsc]

The market would say your worth as much as someone in HR filling out an application would do your job for

[post="234612"][/post]​

Well if the market was in total control (no unions in this country) there would be no middle class and the US would be a third world country.

 

[TheLazarusman]

I'm in the same position as Lazarus, but at another "legacy" carrier. You can also tack on A/C cleaning, security checks and payroll for 50 guys/gals to my job list. What am I (and all of us) worth? Every nickel they pay me.

DC- Take your pot stirring, eristic attitude and shove it up your a$$.

[post="234580"][/post]​

Thanks Kev for helping me remember a few of the items that we as Leads (or Crew Chiefs, or Supervisors, or whatever my peers out there are called) have to deal with every day.



In the heat of the moment, as my blood was beginning to boil, I might have forgotten to mention a few of the duties required of myself and my fellow leads; such as GSC, brake riding (do you even know what that is DC?), aircraft receipt and dispatch, starting APU's, knowledge of how to clear and reset baggage belt systems, etc. Or how about something as simple as knowing how to properly read your bag tag, DC? Or your PNR? Gee, just what does that three letter city code mean? Or how about that two letter airline code? Hell, I don't know what to do with your bag. I think I'll just go throw it in the dumpster when noone's looking so I don't get in trouble for looking stupid. Oh, and I forgot to mention, in some stations we're in charge of fueling. It'd be kinda sad if I wasn't smart enough to get my decimal point in the right place and I accidentally put 150 gallons of fuel instead of 1500 gallons of fuel on your flight; and you had to land at your alternate instead of your final destination. How much am I worth, DC? I hope I'm worth hiring somebody with the mental capacity to do the job. I hope that if the company choses to pay me 7 dollars an hour that the caliber of individual they're going to get for that rate of pay will have the intelligence quotient to handle all aspects of the job. How much are we worth to you now, DC?
Is a pilot just a bus driver in the sky? Is a flight attendant just a coffee slinging waitress in the sky? Is a customer service agent just a keyboard pusher and a ticket taker? Is a fleet service agent just a bag slinger? THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT YOUR ANSWER you arrogant little pri(k!!! :down:

 

[mweiss]

What a "perfect" market would dictate is that every employee is worth exactly the minimum that they are willing to accept to do the job. However, because of the difficulty in properly ascertaining that value for each potential candidate, the actual values tend to be less focused. A more realistic market would dictate instead that every comparable employee get paid the minimum acceptable to the needed employee with the highest minimum.

It is up to the employer to set high enough standards to ensure that the least qualified employee meets acceptable minimum standards of quality. This may or may not be higher than the minimums dictated by the FAA.

Where we run into trouble, as has been frequently (though not so eloquently) alluded in this and many other threads, is that the two forces are diametrically opposed. That is, the consumer wants the lowest fare, while the most qualified employees demand the highest wages. As a result, there is substantial pressure to push to the minimum acceptable skill set.

Or, put in more crass terms, how many people can perish each year without reducing bookings? To a certain extent, I suspect that, provided the number is roughly equivalent across all airlines, it can be quite a high number.

But this begs a significant question that is asked often above, though not in the broader context (though Jim nails it pretty well). How much is the pilot collective worth over a collection of flights? Some flights are pretty easy...calm, clear skies, little traffic, big runway, light load. Others are hellish...gusty crosswinds, low vis, heavy traffic around NYC with a full heavy. Since you're paid the same for both scenarios, and the airline tickets cost the same for both, you have to amortize the additional value across all scenarios.

And that's just for pilots.

I couldn't even begin to put a number on any of it. And, really, neither could anyone else reading this, though some might come a bit closer than others.

 

[diogenes]

Thanks Kev for helping me remember a few of the items that we as Leads (or Crew Chiefs, or Supervisors, or whatever my peers out there are called) have to deal with every day.



In the heat of the moment, as my blood was beginning to boil, I might have forgotten to mention a few of the duties required of myself and my fellow leads; such as GSC, brake riding (do you even know what that is DC?), aircraft receipt and dispatch, starting APU's, knowledge of how to clear and reset baggage belt systems, etc. Or how about something as simple as knowing how to properly read your bag tag, DC? Or your PNR? Gee, just what does that three letter city code mean? Or how about that two letter airline code? Hell, I don't know what to do with your bag. I think I'll just go throw it in the dumpster when noone's looking so I don't get in trouble for looking stupid. Oh, and I forgot to mention, in some stations we're in charge of fueling. It'd be kinda sad if I wasn't smart enough to get my decimal point in the right place and I accidentally put 150 gallons of fuel instead of 1500 gallons of fuel on your flight; and you had to land at your alternate instead of your final destination. How much am I worth, DC? I hope I'm worth hiring somebody with the mental capacity to do the job. I hope that if the company choses to pay me 7 dollars an hour that the caliber of individual they're going to get for that rate of pay will have the intelligence quotient to handle all aspects of the job. How much are we worth to you now, DC?
Is a pilot just a bus driver in the sky? Is a flight attendant just a coffee slinging waitress in the sky? Is a customer service agent just a keyboard pusher and a ticket taker? Is a fleet service agent just a bag slinger? THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT YOUR ANSWER you arrogant little pri(k!!! :down:

[post="234671"][/post]​

Hey Laz,

great post.

In the out-stations, most full-time agents have the same skill sets - they frequently don't have a lead on duty.

don't forget air freight - that'll line you up in the cross hairs of TSA, FAA, DOT, DOA and Customs if you screw the pooch.


DC,

FYI CSA and IAM agents make about the same $$ at U. Not all that long ago, they were the in the same department and classification.

Most Fleet have CSA backgrounds; many CSA's have fleet background.

 

[TheLazarusman]

Hey Laz,

great post.

In the out-stations, most full-time agents have the same skill sets - they frequently don't have a lead on duty.

don't forget air freight - that'll line you up in the cross hairs of TSA, FAA, DOT, DOA and Customs if you screw the pooch.
DC,

FYI CSA and IAM agents make about the same $$ at U. Not all that long ago, they were the in the same department and classification.

Most Fleet have CSA backgrounds; many CSA's have fleet background.

[post="234823"][/post]​

Thanks for backing me up Diogenes. Like minds tend to cling together.

Is any of this sinking in to the dense space occupied between your ears yet, DC? :angry:

Let me try and put it this way, I wouldn't trade my fellow employees, in all departments, for all the money in the world.
Stick that up your tax paying a$$ and smoke it!!!

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW

 

[Dog Wonder]

"Let me try and put it this way, I wouldn't trade my fellow employees, in all departments, for all the money in the world.
Stick that up your tax paying a$$ and smoke it!!!"

You must have a hard time showing your appreciation for co-workers that don't think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

All hat, no cattle.

 

[TheLazarusman]

You must have a hard time showing your appreciation for co-workers that don't think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

All hat, no cattle.

[post="234942"][/post]​

Actually, there's probably more than a few who's opinion of me doesn't reach above the curb; but if they pull their weight along with the rest of us, I'll take them all any day. I'm not perfect. I don't have skeletons in my closet; I have the whole dam% cemetary! I don't expect anybody else to be perfect; either. I just expect them to SHOW UP, suit up, and do their part. And for an HONEST days work I think we all deserve an honest and fair compensation.

Oh, and by the way, I'd rather have a "hard" something than a "limp" nothing. All hat, no cattle? I'm told that's not where the big head is. LOL I always did hear a dog's bark was worse than it's bite. So keep barking dawg; I'm listening.

The Lazarusman
FSA Lead
USAirways DFW