What If ?

[perserverance]

I ask you ,
Do you feel represented ?
Do you feel like you have a say ?
Do you want to be a member of an IAM council ?
etc.........If after the upcoming elections pass and we see no changes and if our leadership agrees
to bring back another agreement far below what is expected from a non bankrupt airline then what
recourse do we have. We have several, one of which I will pursue. It may not be alot of money but
considering I don't feel a part of the current representative choice ,any little bit will help.

''Dues Objector Card'', I will remain a member of the IAM and still contribute to the union. I will
remain an IAM member. I will not have a say in my represenitives or contribute to organizing
committees or vote on a agreement or run for a seat but I will pay less monthly to the IAM. I will
no longer pay the full amount to the IAM til I feel they deserve it.

''What exactly is an Objector?

By law, everyone has an option to be what is considered an "agency fee payor". This means that you would only pay your initiation plus those monthly dues that can be directly attributed to collective bargaining. Those that make this choice are called "objectors" because they are objecting to paying that small portion of their dues that would be used for items such as general community service and legislative activities, certain affiliation costs, political lobbying and general organizing efforts. All of these activities are very important to the survival of all unions.

Those who choose this slight reduction in dues to be "agency fee payors" are considered to be dues-paying non-members and as such give up certain benefits of union membership such as the right to attend and participate in union meetings, the right to nominate and vote for candidates for union office, the right to run for union office, the right to participate in the formulation of IAM collective bargaining demands, the right to participate in contract ratification and strike votes, the right to participate as a delegate to the International Union convention, the right to participate in the development and formulation of IAM policies, and the right to enjoy the many benefits of the IAM's Union Privilege Benefits Program, including low-interest union credit cards, life insurance, legal and travel services.''


Thats' from the IAM web site.....wait that last line offers me a credit card discount, what credit ?

Just a Thought and I'm leaning in that direction, I bleed union and this is certainly not a UNION...

Thanks

 

[bob dylan]

perv-
Nice to see you back on the board and I see you still care. Thanks for the
info many people in my station have asked what can they do if everything stays
status quo ??? This is a nice option, you do remain union ? Do you know how much
money one could save ? I understand it isn't much but I do drive a block or two further
to save a couple cents on a gallon of gas so anything would help even if it's only $5 .
Welcome Back and don't be a stranger !!
I agree we should wait and see what happens in the next few months' with the
elections and everything.

bob

 

[perserverance]

Thanks Bob, To answer your questions. Yes, you do stay union you are only
objecting to contributing to the things mentioned in the post such as organizing
drives and so on. Remember though will have no say in local or International represenitives
but if after the upcoming elections nothing changes I don't care who is in charge if
we don't see a positive change. I do not know the amount that you would save but it is
minimal. This is just an avenue I'm looking into taking. I can't see giving the IAM anymore
than I need to. I've given since day one to them and have seen no significant changes in the
positive direction. Case in point we recieved a minimal wage increase about 2 months ago and
in turn we saw a minimal dues increase and now theres' talk of a major dues increase this
upcoming summer. I can't continue to contribute to the $100,000 +++ club anymore. I'll
give what I need to and no more. This union was never made ours (us+aw fleet) were
represented by members from United and by people who who have no concept of our needs.
Bob, on a side not I sent you a p.m.


Thanks

 

[700UW]

Actually you are not a member, you are consider a "non-member, agency fee payor", you only pay what is germane to the CBA, you would save about $7 a month.

But is $84 a year worth giving up your right to vote on a strike, a cba, your representatives and attend any meetings?

Do you know the larges makeup of the Air Transport of IAM are rampers, csas and F/As?

Maintenance is the smallest portion.

Robert Roach, GVP of Transportation was a ramper for TWA.

 

[Planemx]

Bob,

 

[Planemx]

That about sums it up - but will they do anything about it?

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Since it seems so hard to get rid of the iam, would we hae a better chance by trying to reorganize with the customer service group? We were together with them once before, I think our chances woud be better back with them. I could live with the contract that they have. Then once it expires we could get rid of the iam for good. Could this suggestion become reality?

 

[700UW]

Piney,

See I guess you were not around when the IAM was making tremendous gains at US during the 80s, 90s and the year 2000.

Then 9/11 hit and the price of oil is skyrocketing.

Show me one union at any of the legacy carriers that has come away smelling like a rose?

AA:
ALPA, APFA and TWU

All took concessions.

CO:
ALPA, IBT and IAM (actually the IAM represented FAs are one of the highest paid in the industry and made out very well during concessions)

DL:
ALPA

NW:
ALPA, AMFA, IAM, PFAA(now AFA) and TWU

UA:
ALPA, AFA, AMFA, IAM, and an inhouse union representing the dispatchers.

US:
ALPA, AFA, CWA, IAM and TWU.

So show me where any of these unions made gains post 9/11, except the IAM Represented FAs at CO.

The reality of it all is not one union at any legacy has made any gains nor been able to prevent massive concessions that have taken place.

US used the court system twice to plunder the employees, I guess you forgot the employees took two two rounds of concessions in the first bankruptcy and there was basically nothing left to give back in the third except jobs.

The company wanted revenge on the IAM for the airbus arbitration and I was at CCY for three months five days a week trying to hammer out a deal to preserve as many jobs as possible for the M&R Employees.

As a matter of fact we gave the company a complete and comprehensive proposal that met their threshold (not including the termination of the pension as we would never agree to that and knew the courts would do it anyhow) that preserved many more jobs than US wanted to keep on the payroll.

They rejected it as they told us "it keeps too many people on the payroll and they did not want to manage people".

They used the laws of the land that favor companies and not employees to achieve their goals.

I know I was there and still have all my notes and proposals that went back and forth.

From day one of the 2nd bankruptcy, US knew what they wanted and knew how to get it and the unions and employees were basically powerless to do anything about it unless they voted down their final offers or their TAs, which the membership refused to do.

Ultimately the power was in the membership's hand to approve or reject the final offers placed before them, yet you criticize the IAM for letting the members choose their futures.

The biggest problem any union faces is membership apathy and no union in this country has solved that problem.

At the membership and ratification meetings I held, I told them I was voting against it and they should too.

The M&R NC could not reach a consensus on giving a recommendation on the offer as there were a few holdouts who were scared about the status of their heavy maintenance base.

See it is easy for you throw stones, since you were not there, don't know what exactly transpired and did not even work for US.

Ramp Rogue,

First of all the CWA would not permit a raid, second the NMB has ruled Seperate Class and Craft for Fleet Service and Customer Service.

You could be in the same union but would still have seperate CBAs as it is now with the IAM at US and the IAM at UA and NW with the IAM.

Contracts under the RLA do not expire, they become amendable, and the status of a CBA has nothing to do with representation, you would still have to raid and follow the RLA and NMB procedures, like how you failed trying to get the TWU, IBT and the IBEW.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Piney,

See I guess you were not around when the IAM was making tremendous gains at US during the 80s, 90s and the year 2000.

Then 9/11 hit and the price of oil is skyrocketing.

Show me one union at any of the legacy carriers that has come away smelling like a rose?

There is an upstart airline based in Houston, that keeps coming up smelling like the Yellow Rose Of Texas!
(Main Entry: 2up·start
Function: noun
Pronunciation: '&p-"stärt
1 : one that has risen suddenly (as from a low position to wealth or power)

 

[700UW]

I did not put WN in the mix as they have a sound business plan, they have been around for over 30+ plus years with consistent profits.

They did not take concessions, they dont operate internationally and treat their employees with respect.

Their employees are or in the top pay of the industry.

Pilots are SWAPA, Ramp was ROPA, now TWU, FAs are TWU, CSA and Res are IAM and the AMT's are AMFA (were IBT).

But even WN is facing the pains that the legacies are facing, they offered buyouts to thin the ranks of the senior employees, they have slowed down their growth and are returning planes as leases come up, they are cutting flights and it has been proven if not for their fuel hedging they would not be profitable during some quarters.

And I look at WN's business model as a carnivore, which works for them, they go into an established market served by legacies and slash fares to take passengers away from the legacies.

Why would I include WN when they are making money and not trying to subsidize their profits out of the employees wallets?

And by the way, hey are based out of DAL, not Houston.

Fuel Costs, Vacancies Spur Southwest Changes

 

[Jester]

Where do I sign up? Seriously... Boss Canale & Company aren't doing crap for West, and certainly, not for me so much so that I don't think they should get any dues from me.

IAM picks their reps out in the West so that former AWA people can't run for office.
(No need to worry about losing that privilege.)

Easties' voting will dominate anything West supports.
(So much for my voting being meaningful.)

Union meetings do not encourage open questions and typically, people are shouted down.
(I'll really miss that option.)

I might even lose the benefit of having the "Messenger" mailed to my home and viewing Boss Canale's swarmy grill.
(My cat will need to be retrained on how to use the litter box after that.)


So outside of my feline problems, I don't see much else to lose, but $84 to save.


So bristles Jester.

 

[delldude]

Talk...talk...talk.....the only true measure of a body of represented peoples ire is a successful

card drive and representational runoff.


Of course,you don't want to piss off the IAM gods now do you?

 

[b737200]

IAM vs company likeness
1. management and agc's pay outrageous and should be no concern to the workers
2. ceo and canale mentality similar
3. worker's beaten down and expected to accept it.
4. do as I say not as I do philosiphy
5. promote whom kisses most xss and not based on job performence
6. strike down those who speak out.
7. manufacture current economic conditions to meet needs.
8.

what else is there? basically the union and company are one in the same.

 

[perserverance]

700-
I clearly stated what an objector was in my post. The paragraphs
in quotation marks are directly from the IAM web site. As far as is the
money worth it for me, yes. But I will wait and see the outcome of the
upcoming months elections and negotiations. It is stated in my post that
you will become a "agency fee payor" and with that everything that goes
along with that. You do remain a dues paying non union member
and continue to contribute to ''collective bargaining''. You do remain a member.

Now, I know you are a supporter of the IAM and you feel the need to
post in thier favor when they ,the IAM , are questioned. So in answer to your
question, Yes $84 is worth it. As of this date my leadership is non existant
and thier eyes and ears have and always have been blind and deaf to our
group so I will not give them $1 let alone $84 more than I have to give. A
perfect example was in the last T/A where the IAM saw fit to include in the fleets
proposal ''Positive Space Travel'' for IAM leaders on Usairways if related to''company
buisness.'' You know basically everytime they would need to fly they would claim
''company buisness''. I also know that M/R never had thier proposal brought before them
and as much as you claim the 2 are seperate and different , we both are represented
by the IAM and thier proposal had no mention of ''Positive Space''. Now that has a
value and that value was going to come off the fleets back.

So yes, $84 is worth it to me. I'd rather get the money than just throw it away
to a union not doing , in my opinion, thier job. But I'll wait another 6 months or so.

This is just a path I've been looking into and will continue to look into and if I decide
to get a ''dues objector card'' I will do so knowing my voice is non existant so why pay
to support something I clearly don't. This is my choice, my option. It gives me the opportunity
to remain a union member even if it is in the ''dues paying non union'' heading.

Oh, and when one of your unions selling points in asking you to remain to stay a full
dues paying member is ,''low-interest union credit cards, and travel services.''.
That is upsetting. They supposedly know we are struggling to make ends meet and they offer
us credit cards ,isn't that like adding to the problem and were already in the travel industry.


Thanks

 

[robbedagain]

how much higher will it go as if they need it to go any higher than gas prices