Why there will never be a T.A.

[737823]

Absolutely not to the level that you allude to exists. The PROOF is out there. Go look at the Facebook Group pages besides the one you control and read the comments on Jetnet besides from that THE TRUTH goofball.

I have noticed that some of the posters that have been showing frustrations are friends of yours here in MIA. Why is that?

Weez why is you seem agitated towards your TWU local? Yet you always post positively about the IAM, supportive of IAM priorities, supporting IAMPNF, etc.

Are you going to go up to FLL to help organize B6? Maybe you will come to BOS too that’s their second largest station.

Josh

 

[NYer]

No. Although I realize having me out there as a bulwark to the narrative you want to propel is frustrating the more you continue to repeat as a psychological means to try to push your agenda through, the more I have to point that out.

It’s actually nothing personal. I just get the feeling your agenda could lose me some Economic value long term?

Well, since anything that happens as it relates to a vote or no vote lands squarely on the Association, there really can't be an influential agenda by anyone outside that sphere.

Is flattering how you're trying to set the stage of blame in the event there is a TA, at my door step.

Nice try anyway.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, since anything that happens as it relates to a vote or no vote lands squarely on the Association, there really can't be an influential agenda by anyone outside that sphere.

Is flattering how you're trying to set the stage of blame in the event there is a TA, at my door step.

Nice try anyway.

Of course there can be influences outside of the actual Negotiators or the updates they put out. You yourself used to have an extremely large influence at one time that has now dwindled down to probably not enough to really matter anyway. So of course your second comment is rather silly or pretty paranoid.

I hope we do get a TA to vote on. Especially one before possibly going in to Section 6. I hope the TA if one comes out, comes out with a gleaming endorsement. A few IAM Negotiators have said that they won’t agree to a TA that they can’t endorse to their Membership.

And again if there’s a TA and it’s brought out with no recommendation then I’m going to consider by de facto it’s a tacit endorsement for me to consider voting yes for.

 

[MetalMover]

You’ve written nothing new here that you haven’t already conveyed too many times to count.

You do realize your level of repetitiveness is incredibly extreme.

The same can be said for GP's videos! 😉

 

[swamt]

The NMB will control the entire process including pushing sides to move off their position.

The airline has been systematically moving towards the Association over the last several months and will likely do so again this week.

Who's turn do you believe it will be to move if we end up in Section 6? And what will be left to move on? Likely Scope and the Medical.

Not only will the NMB control it all, they will only set dates that they have time for, not the co. or union setting dates. The NMB is in no hurry either. It will be a long, long drawn out process with NMB involved.

 

[WeAAsles]

From what the petition says, I do not see where anyone is asking for a TA signed sight unseen. Speaking of guys who just want the early out, I ask you this...Are they not union members too? Do they not have a right to want something that someone else does not? One member may just care about money while another cares about security while another only cares about medical while another cares about an early out. Who are the rest of us to judge what someone with a different priority may desire? What makes some members wrong and others right?

It’s fine for people who are Represented to advocate for a buyout after they spent a career contributing to the Labor Organizations.

The problem is that any deals have to be balanced to not be detrimental to those who remain and are going to actually live and work under those agreements.

Parker has stated that the buyouts are very expensive and of course he wants them in the deals because of that to sway votes. He may have been a little more PC in how he worded it but it is what he said.

It’s just that you know Metal we have already gone through the history of Members being essentially sold out by others who just wanted a seat on the life raft to shore while the rest of us stayed in the capsized vessel.

 

[MetalMover]

It’s fine for people who are Represented to advocate for a buyout after they spent a career contributing to the Labor Organizations.

The problem is that any deals have to be balanced to not be detrimental to those who remain and are going to actually live and work under those agreements.

Parker has stated that the buyouts are very expensive and of course he wants them in the deals because of that to sway votes. He may have been a little more PC in how he worded it but it is what he said.

It’s just that you know Metal we have already gone through the history of Members being essentially sold out by others who just wanted a seat on the life raft to shore while the rest of us stayed in the capsized vessel.

To be perfectly honest why wouldn't a company offer a buyout to sway votes? Really can't blame them. Not saying you are wrong but I would assume the company did their research and estimate there is a great number of people on both the LUS and LAA side who take it. You know, the ones who endured bankruptcieS and loss of retiree and medical benefits as well as pension benefits.
All I am saying is that those members have earned the right to want ONLY an early buyout just as those members who want only to keep the cheaper but better medical plan or want only the money or only the scope.
We should not be calling those members the IGM (I Got Mine) crowd and criticize them as if they don't matter.
Maybe the ASSociation can negotiate cheaper medical if a good number of members take the buyout? Just a thought.

 

[NYer]

To be perfectly honest why wouldn't a company offer a buyout to sway votes? Really can't blame them. Not saying you are wrong but I would assume the company did their research and estimate there is a great number of people on both the LUS and LAA side who take it. You know, the ones who endured bankruptcieS and loss of retiree and medical benefits as well as pension benefits.
All I am saying is that those members have earned the right to want ONLY an early buyout just as those members who want only to keep the cheaper but better medical plan or want only the money or only the scope.
We should not be calling those members the IGM (I Got Mine) crowd and criticize them as if they don't matter.
Maybe the ASSociation can negotiate cheaper medical if a good number of members take the buyout? Just a thought.

In 2012, there was an insistence by the unions to include an Early Out (buyout) to try and offset involuntary furloughs. At that time, the Early Out may have assisted to have the BK CBA pass, was it a mistake then?

On the one hand, it helped to allow many to remain with the airline as others voluntarily left. On the other hand, it allowed those that left to vote on something that wouldn't affect them further.

Only "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" are the only ones that don't make decisions that affect others, they just criticize it.

 

[WeAAsles]

To be perfectly honest why wouldn't a company offer a buyout to sway votes? Really can't blame them. Not saying you are wrong but I would assume the company did their research and estimate there is a great number of people on both the LUS and LAA side who take it. You know, the ones who endured bankruptcieS and loss of retiree and medical benefits as well as pension benefits.
All I am saying is that those members have earned the right to want ONLY an early buyout just as those members who want only to keep the cheaper but better medical plan or want only the money or only the scope.
We should not be calling those members the IGM (I Got Mine) crowd and criticize them as if they don't matter.
Maybe the ASSociation can negotiate cheaper medical if a good number of members take the buyout? Just a thought.

Who doesn’t want money? None of us would be doing this crap if we weren’t getting paid. It’s not about what you’re advocating for, it’s about HOW you advocate for it.

If I was ready to be an EBO I would just say that I want the buyout but be honest and say if I was staying I “think” it’s a bad deal and remain patient.

I wouldn’t be a pushy little P. Being pushy makes people look desperate and pathetic frankly. The Company feeds off that like a Succubus.

 

[B737 driver]

Not only will the NMB control it all, they will only set dates that they have time for, not the co. or union setting dates. The NMB is in no hurry either. It will be a long, long drawn out process with NMB involved.

Or if you piss off the mediator like both sides did at SWA will be a really long drawn out process.

 

[bigjets]

From the update, it comes across as the NC is not willing to accept the the medical that the APA and APFA already accepted, and a scope clause that is not as good as it is now (for the twu) but would be better then any other airline.

So it’s looking like the NC is not willing to budge on anything. I wonder if we will get the chance to vote on a last best offer from AA or we start the long road for a strike, which probably means at least 5 more years of current contract. In just holiday pay alone, we are losing $1000 for each holiday. That comes out to $50k we will be missing out on in just HW pay.

 

[wrencher]

From the update, it comes across as the NC is not willing to accept the the medical that the APA and APFA already accepted, and a scope clause that is not as good as it is now (for the twu) but would be better then any other airline.

So it’s looking like the NC is not willing to budge on anything. I wonder if we will get the chance to vote on a last best offer from AA or we start the long road for a strike, which probably means at least 5 more years of current contract. In just holiday pay alone, we are losing $1000 for each holiday. That comes out to $50k we will be missing out on in just HW pay.

 

[1AA]

From the update, it comes across as the NC is not willing to accept the the medical that the APA and APFA already accepted, and a scope clause that is not as good as it is now (for the twu) but would be better then any other airline.

So it’s looking like the NC is not willing to budge on anything. I wonder if we will get the chance to vote on a last best offer from AA or we start the long road for a strike, which probably means at least 5 more years of current contract. In just holiday pay alone, we are losing $1000 for each holiday. That comes out to $50k we will be missing out on in just HW pay.

A STRIKE? Now that's funny. You sound desperate for that early out deal. Remember the promise of an ILC coming out of Parkers mouth? Remember his comment that the days of airlines losing money are a thing of the past? You sound like my kid when he was growing up. Whined about everything he could not have. We are stuck with the dysfunctional Association and have to wait it out. We have no choice. The NMB and the unions robbed us of that. I don't like it as much as everyone else but I'm not going to cry about letting them just put anything out there for us to vote on because we are all desperate for the money.

 

[bigjets]

A STRIKE? Now that's funny. You sound desperate for that early out deal. Remember the promise of an ILC coming out of Parkers mouth? Remember his comment that the days of airlines losing money are a thing of the past? You sound like my kid when he was growing up. Whined about everything he could not have. We are stuck with the dysfunctional Association and have to wait it out. We have no choice. The NMB and the unions robbed us of that. I don't like it as much as everyone else but I'm not going to cry about letting them just put anything out there for us to vote on because we are all desperate for the money.

I'm no where near retirement. You sound like a senior guy from DFW, house paid off kids through school, you have it easy. You also sound like a VOTE NO on everything short of restore and more, and have cost us over a $150k in cash alone. You will show the company what for by forcing them to have us work under the worst contract in the industry for over decade after offering us improvements, restore and more!!!!! Another member of the AMT think tank, who doesn't understand the importance of money in your pocket.

What do you think happens after there is an impasse in negotiations, AA realizes we have an A&P license from emery riddle, gets intimidated and gives us restore and more? yes a strike comes eventually. Of course the DFW guys will take their OT and be happy

I personally would like to know what we are asking for and what is being offered.

 

[1AA]

I'm no where near retirement. You sound like a senior guy from DFW, house paid off kids through school, you have it easy. You also sound like a VOTE NO on everything short of restore and more, and have cost us over a $150k in cash alone. You will show the company what for by forcing them to have us work under the worst contract in the industry for over decade after offering us improvements, restore and more!!!!! Another member of the AMT think tank, who doesn't understand the importance of money in your pocket.

What do you think happens after there is an impasse in negotiations, AA realizes we have an A&P license from emery riddle, gets intimidated and gives us restore and more? yes a strike comes eventually. Of course the DFW guys will take their OT and be happy

I personally would like to know what we are asking for and what is being offered.

Nope, your crystal ball is wrong about me. It's not about me. It's about how we got screwed and now the desperation is making it worse. We need to be patient if we want any shot at an ILC. We don't have the best union negotiating for us because it's a dysfunctional organization.
We don't have the best labor friendly management team either. We are colateral damage. Our dues and labor makes the union wealthy and the company profitable. We keep giving them the a safe product and they take advantage of our hard work. The union makes sure the dues keep flowing for financial stability. In return we get representation. Now we want that representation to step up and get us that ILC as PROMISED!