American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

Discussion in 'American Airlines' started by Buck, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    AMFA held fast on not gutting our scope, because for the first 5 years, the company tried to buy it. Last year the T/A failed because the full retro payments were not in the package. We moved on international outsourcing with C check lines we are not doing anyway to pay for it, land kept our scope. The Association driving for the IAM postion , when you know the company will not move, is stupid, I have done negotiations and systems boards in the past, you have to move, but not give the store away. All this does is lead to ice by the mediator, because American is way to big to strike or ever be released.Especially in MIA, DFW, JFK, LGA, and Chicago!
     
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  2. dfw gen

    dfw gen Veteran

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    i have to agree with you, unfortunately my agreement is based on the company wanting out of it. i also have to say anything coming out of the association can change at any time. again i reference the no vote on the association. the promise of more "material" coming out of over the weekend (not sure which weekend). there is a serious credibility issue and it very clear the effort to solve it is minimal at best. the associations response to the company proposal is not what was expected or what the membership wanted, and not in a timely. again it appears to be a lame attempt to placate the masses a "let them eat cake" type of response....
     
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  3. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    I took out all the other stuff because it’s really gotten to the point of ridiculousness and over the top now.

    How is YOUR agreement based on the Company wanting out of the IAMNPF? I didn’t hear Tom Regan (IAM Lead Negotiator) say anything at all about us being included in those talks.

    For TWU Members they’re asking for a 10% Contribution to our 401K period.

    For IAM Members they need to be bought out of the IAMNPF under the agreement the Company signed if they wanted to do so long before we ever came into the picture. Or the Company can continue and put that extra value into a 401K account for those Members?

    The Company just priced $750 Million of Senior Unsecured Notes to be directed towards Pension Payments.

    The Company is required to make a $900 Million payment this year to our Frozen DBP’s and if they want out of the IAMNPF they need to pay $320 Million which can be negotiated to be paid out at a time frame up to 20 years if mutually agreed to.

    My guess on that payment like any other payment is the longer they take to pay off the debt, the more it will cost them.
     
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  4. MetalMover

    MetalMover Veteran

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    And I would venture a guess to say that the same majority does
    not believe everything the ASSociation is spewing nor do they trust them. I wouldnt be surprised if the ASSociation starts to offer less pay to save Title 2 jobs. if anyone does not see the trend towards saving those jobs at all cost, they might need an eye opener. They want what other airline workers get but not what the company wants with respect to what other companies get in return.
     
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  5. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    I cut the fat from your comment.

    I doubt ultimately that either Union would send out for a vote any agreement that has less than at least the wage rates offered by the Company. They’re not as stupid as you think just because you don’t like them and know that would be rejected by the Membership in this economic climate.

    Any way it’s cut even though the Company has areas where they no longer want to keep certain work in house and are looking for lower costs in those areas, they know they still need to have that work performed.

    Regarding Facilities Maintenance particularly the Company is still going to have to pay the Airports to have certain essential work performed.

    Personally I can only begin to imagine the nightmare of trying to go through MDAD to get things done like fixing doors, water fountains, lights, Etc.

    Don’t know about where you work Metal but our Facilities guys are fantastic and MDAD sucks big time. Ground power units can be out for weeks around here waiting on them to fix it.

    Edit: BTW I always love how you AMT’s zoom in on everyone else and the work we want to keep but when it comes to yourselves and your work being lost it’s a tragedy of epic proportions.
     
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  6. Matt1200

    Matt1200 Senior

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    The IAM pension fund is toast. I figured it would go into bankruptcy within 2 years. PBGC will have to fund another IAM pension. I have been in this union for 10 years. When the teamsters try to come into US Airways about 3-4 years ago the IAM said we should support the current union because of the pension. Now the pension is under funded. I want a 401K match, I have 5 years left to work. I will not see another contract. The IAM will lose our current medical benefits. I see no reason to support the IAM or this association. I have been lied to from the unions and companies I worked for, for over 39 years. I want to vote now!!!!!
     
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  7. MetalMover

    MetalMover Veteran

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    Don’t know about where you work Metal but our Facilities guys are fantastic and MDAD sucks big time. Ground power units can be out for weeks around here waiting on them to fix it.

    Edit: BTW I always love how you AMT’s zoom in on everyone else and the work we want to keep but when it comes to yourselves and your work being lost it’s a tragedy of epic proportions.[/QUOTE]
    Do you need me to remind you how much of “US” mechanics’ work was lost over the years ? Either to outsourcing or to fleet sevice? But when this topic comes up, you are the first to remind us that’s all in the past. No one gave a rat’s ass when that happened.
    And no one is knocking their calabilities. But do you realize that the way they protected Title 2, it is easier for a fleet service clerk with an A&P license to upgrade to mechanic than it is for current A&P to move over to facilities or plant maintenance?
    That's my union dividing the membership, NOT the company.!
    You really are master of deception, WeAAz. I'll be sure to watch the facilities and GSE folks eat the food at AMT day!

    "WE" mechanics have lost more work to outsourcing and to fleet. They recently replaced our ground equipment mechanics with GSE...And not a GODDAMN peep from those departments who took the work. I guess it was ok for mechanics' work to be shifted to other TWU represented work groups because , well, you know "Mechanics should only be turning wrenches.."
    But as far your concerned, whenever I or other mechanics bring this up, your reply is to stop living in the past.
    One way or another, the company will get their scope.
    You better hope it's not at the end where it's shoved down our throats years later.
    Fine tune the medical and 401k language and protect everyone on the payroll.
    Maybe you are infatuated with the ASSociation, but I see them as simply trying to keep their union dues. And the longer this goes on, the more money in their coffers.
    Both the company AND the ASSociation are playing the same game. But the membership are the ones who pay the price ultimately.
     
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  8. conehead777

    conehead777 Veteran

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    Do you need me to remind you how much of “US” mechanics’ work was lost over the years ? Either to outsourcing or to fleet sevice? But when this topic comes up, you are the first to remind us that’s all in the past. No one gave a rat’s ass when that happened.
    And no one is knocking their calabilities. But do you realize that the way they protected Title 2, it is easier for a fleet service clerk with an A&P license to upgrade to mechanic than it is for current A&P to move over to facilities or plant maintenance?
    That's my union dividing the membership, NOT the company.!


    You really are master of deception, WeAAz. I'll be sure to watch the facilities and GSE folks eat the food at AMT day!

    "WE" mechanics have lost more work to outsourcing and to fleet. They recently replaced our ground equipment mechanics with GSE...And not a GODDAMN peep from those departments who took the work. I guess it was ok for mechanics' work to be shifted to other TWU represented work groups because , well, you know "Mechanics should only be turning wrenches.."
    But as far your concerned, whenever I or other mechanics bring this up, reply is to stop living in the past.
    One way or another, the company will get their scope.
    You better hope it's not at the end where it's shoved down our throats years later.
    Fine tune the medical and 401k language and protect everyone on the payroll.
    Maybe you are infatuated with the ASSociation, but I see them as simply trying to keep their union dues. And the longer this goes on, the more money in their coffers.
    Both the company AND the ASSociation are playing the same game. But the membership are the ones who pay the price ultimately.[/QUOTE]
    It’s all about the dues money. Twu will sell its members for future dues money. just like they did with eagle . They don’t care where the work gets done as long as there getting dues money. Just like they ***** about international outsourcing but don’t complain about domestic outsourcing. Like 787 going to sat are pae mob etc 777 737. And we know how the outsourced 737 oasis mod came out. Ty raps ring a bell. Mechanics lets sign amp cards where we control our present and future.
     
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  9. V.O. Reason

    V.O. Reason Member

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    I truly want to know what these so call negotiators end game is here and are they really going to continue down this road of no pension and no IAM med, so no deal. If that is their position knowing full well it’s very unlikely the company will give on that that these guys just expect us to wait two or more years with no hope of any raises or any contract improvements.
    This is where a union is not working for us, they got their raises on the backs of our dues but we are just expected to sit back and wait on them. I say BS, lets vote
     
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  10. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    I wish you wouldn’t write so much sometimes cause it makes it difficult to respond to all of it.

    How or why is it more difficult for an AMT to move to Facilities or Plant Maintenance and why would you want to anyway?

    And no those assholes shouldn’t be eating the food on AMT day particularly if you’re boycotting. But assholes are assholes no matter where they grow from.

    As far as taking any more of your work you heard what Tom Regan said about tow crews. It’s your work in our book. Just wish some of you would act more like you want it. (Some of you)

    I see no reason after all the work we’ve given up throughout our career that we need now to give up any more. And you can’t be offended by any of the work you lost in the past if you’re not going to fight to keep at least what you have today.

    And I’m not going to say on what or where but I think there’s still room for the two sides to move towards each other. I know in my mind where I would be ok with it in Fleet and hopefully you aren’t satisfied with what you see on the table for your group.
     
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  11. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    Two years. If your union never moves off the IAM medical or the pension, two non starters with the company , it will be 3 years or more.
     
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  12. 1AA

    1AA Veteran

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    We know that. Sito is not giving it up.
     
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  13. B737 driver

    B737 driver Veteran

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    So what's in it for him?
     
  14. Vortilon

    Vortilon Veteran

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    Zoom in on everyone else?


    Conehead is right, Facilities Maintenance has stabbed A/C in the back every chance they get. Hell, even at DFW they opted to stay in the Fleet Service local over being with their "and related brothers". Every time AMTs boycott the company food on AMT day, here comes the parade of unwelcome title II types tripping over us to get to the food and trinkets spread out for AMTs. For that matter, the same goes for Stores.
    Add to that, they were also a reluctant to sign AMFA or now AMP cards.

    You know AMTs can't even get to the part of the hangar that Facilities resides, never invited to any of their parties, same for stores..
    Just tired of the double standard.

    As far as giving up work, that's all on the union.. Don't piss on my leg, and tell me it's raining. I can remember doing call outs for cockpit windshield cleaning, and deicing. Never once complained about it or suggested giving it up.

    I do remember douche bags like Ed Kosiatek suggesting it was AMTs who were complaining about it. Good ole Ed, TWU International POS.

    Why move on? Who does that benefit?

    AMTs have taken the brunt of the punishment - there is no doubt about it.
     
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  15. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

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    I’m not trying to slam you or put you down I promise but we can all feel to some degree like we have a victim card in our wallet if we want.

    I respected and liked Ricardo Partida very much and we had plenty of conversations over the years before he passed away. I’m sorry that him and his group felt more wanted with Fleet than they did with AMT’s. Maybe that’s a problem that works both ways?

    As far as Deicing I’ve said before that it was before my time and I’ve just gone on what I was told. I’m sure there were plenty that voted no to giving it up as well and I still say it should be your work and not mine.

    Anything that needs to be signed off on like that even if we can do it and do it well should be in your responsible hands. (Moving Aircraft across active taxiways into hangers as well)
     
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