American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

Ridiculous conversation to have as those stories can fill up volumes of textbooks and aren’t as simple as trying to locate simple answers.



Again Al where did I say that not being in a Union means you have no dignity? But in many unskilled jobs yes Management does not treat their Workforce well. Costco is the few and far in between exception.

Unlike you though Al I can give the Corporations who do treat their workers well their due but God forbid you were ever to give a Union some props I guess huh?

(Even today are you so sure you want to picture this Country with them completely gone?)

No you are correct its better to have a contract then not

 

[Rogallo]

I should have got into the business of selling blinders and rose colored glasses...

I think these would sell pretty good too!

 

[WeAAsles]

Not all the same? So I'll notice a big difference my first day as a TWU member. Or do you think I'll just chug along

Don’t know Al? Like I already told you I know the first 3/4 of Stewards on that LGA TWU list going back over 20 years ago so I’m going to hope they know what the hell they’re doing and serve everyone well? Your dues are going to go to 2 times your hourly rate and I’m sure they’ll give you a TWU shirt and hat if you want one?

The rotating thing ain’t going to make you a happy camper if it passes that Local vote but with your seniority you’ll have spots to bid that you won’t have to.

No you are correct its better to have a contract then not

Thanks for being honest about that Al. Seriously.

 

[B737 driver]

I do know who is represented by the TWU, even those outside of the transportation business! But I believe, deep down, that every one in this day and age really only care about what's in it for them. It starts at the top with the leaders of industry and International Labor leadership.

On a side note.......UPS mechanics, many of whom are based in Louisville at the company’s Worldport air hub, earn more than $100,000, with a “robust” defined-benefit pension plan and no-cost health insurance, UPS told WDRB in 2016.

Pretty nice scratch and bennies for the UPS guys, eh?

https://teamster.org/news/2018/08/teamsters-win-industry-leading-agreement-ups-aircraft-mechanics

That's because they have a real Union, and not a country club one, like we have representing us at SWA.

 

[ALUS78]

Don’t know Al? Like I already told you I know the first 3/4 of Stewards on that LGA TWU list going back over 20 years ago so I’m going to hope they know what the hell they’re doing and serve everyone well? Your dues are going to go to 2 times your hourly rate and I’m sure they’ll give you a TWU shirt and hat if you want one?

The rotating thing ain’t going to make you a happy camper if it passes that Local vote but with your seniority you’ll have spots to bid that you won’t have to.



Thanks for being honest about that Al. Seriously.

About that rotating your boy Peterson said in his video that seniority is everything well apparently not.I want it to be a system wide vote not local

 

[B737 driver]

Ok so you completely discount the notion that many workers besides hating the pay and benefits are also tired of having management jam their foots up their asses? You also do realize that about 9 times out of 10 it’s and Employee who reaches out to a Union and not vice versa.

And per sey no Unions are not a Business as they aren’t publicly traded and are also non profit.

Did you ever read the TWU Constitution Al? First BTW since Harry Lombardo and then John Samuelsen won their elections they haven’t taken a raise.

If you ever do want to read that Constitution you’ll find out how they can get a raise and I think you’ll like how that works since YOU have to benefit before they can.

Anyway Unions are far from being Businesses but unfortunately some do model themselves after them to a degree. (That IS a problem)

In reality they are a business they have budgets, an executive committee, legal counsel. The dues are their revenues. The workers are their share holders and vote on the direction of the union, and they have business meetings.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

why would anyone from laa/lus lift a finger to improve envoy's quality of work life? they are represented by the twu, that's their job.

Dude, Tim is NOT a union member. He is the resident deputy of government law, and a champion of worker rights, regardless of the situation or work group...

 

[WeAAsles]

I think these would sell pretty good too!
View attachment 13200

I notice you avoided my UPS posting? Lol.

About that rotating your boy Peterson said in his video that seniority is everything well apparently not.I want it to be a system wide vote not local

Al I’ve already said and still maintain that I think it’s absolute BS too. And I’ve even argued it with my bud Angelo.

System wide vote though? Oh hell no!!!!!

In reality they are a business they have budgets, an executive committee, legal counsel. The dues are their revenues. The workers are their share holders and vote on the direction of the union, and they have business meetings.

Well if you want to put it that way you can say the exact same thing about Churches too. I wish Churches got the same bad rap in America that Unions do.

Can someone please buy Joel Osteen a new Jet now?

 

[Jester]

I am surprised we still need to dispel the myth to the few remaining shibboleths for which senior union leadership are part of a purely altruistic, selfless, quasi-monastery while accepting six-figure salaries, generous benefits and the occasional, membership-paid, alcohol-fueled convention related trips to upscale jiggle joints.

Of course, I have benefited from being part of the union, just as much as I have benefited (usually) from hiring of lawyers, CPA's and medical doctors, and nor did I think any of them lived saintly lives. However, I did expect and demand they represent my best interests, and not to be accepting money or compensation from parties working against me-- as the IAM/TWU had done with Swissport, Eagle, UGE and other contracting groups attempting to eliminate my employment.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am surprised we still need to dispel the myth to the few remaining shibboleths for which senior union leadership are part of a purely altruistic, selfless, quasi-monastery while accepting six-figure salaries, generous benefits and the occasional, membership-paid, alcohol-fueled convention related trips to upscale jiggle joints.

Of course, I have benefited from being part of the union, just as much as I have benefited (usually) from hiring of lawyers, CPA's and medical doctors, and nor did I think any of them lived saintly lives. However, I did expect and demand they represent my best interests, and not to be accepting money or compensation from parties working against me-- as the IAM/TWU had done with Swissport, Eagle, UGE and other contracting groups attempting to eliminate my employment.

# 1 Don’t be jealous now if you haven’t put in the hard work to reach that plateau where you can make that six-figure salary, have generous benefits and the occasional, membership-paid, alcohol-fueled convention related trips to upscale jiggle joints.

Go out and save a Job and then we can talk.

# 2 Do you do any Aircraft movements? Well maybe some AMT’s might consider YOU to be part of that group attempting to eliminate “their” employment? Just being honest with you bro.

Stop stealing AMT work.

Edit: And I don’t think you quite used Shibboleth correctly. Close yes, but just slightly off.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW one more time on that old worn out comment “What do they care, they still get the dues”

As I understand it the IAM gets a weighted average of what the Workers earn in each Local. So if it’s a lower paid workforce then the District and the International make far less than a Mainline workforce would contribute.

TWU is 2 times your Base wage. So I’m assuming here with Swissport but the Airport Ramp minimum in MIA I believe is $14.00 per hour?

Swissport dues yearly = $336.00
Envoy AE dues yearly = $378.00 ($15.75 TOS)
Mainline dues yearly = $739.44 ($30.81 TOS)

Now don’t get me wrong as I do see the conflict of interest still. But the economics to make any sense to undermine us here actually don’t make any sense or add up.

I don’t personally think either Union really wants to make less money.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Exactly. And the Catch 22 though being that the “Fight for 15” and many Airports implementing “Airport Minimums” is over time eroding the cost effectiveness of shifting Mainline Flying over to Regional. And a tightening job market also isn’t helping.

Eventually and I’ve been saying this for years, small towns and cities are going to lose all Air service as they won’t be able to generate the Revenue to afford the cost of flying to them.

BTW extending out the wage steps to reach TOS could be the first step in bringing that work back to us Mainline handlers? Eventually it could reach a stage of critical mass that the turnover rate for sub contractors gets to a point where it’s not worth hiring them or them even existing much longer?

About a year ago now Management discontinued any cross over agreements for ENVOY Employees to come over to the Mainline and keep their Company time. Now they have to quit to even consider being hired at AA. Seems to me as if they are trying to hold them Prisoner to those crappy wages and benefits?

i agree with most here...will say this:

Eventually and I’ve been saying this for years, small towns and cities are going to lose all Air service as they won’t be able to generate the Revenue to afford the cost of flying to them.

the government is subsidizing airlines that no one ever heard of to fly to small cities that have lost legacy regional service.

this is a very european thing to do; something that the govts. of qatar/emirates and etihad do...some of these prop-jobs have one passenger...the govt. compensates the no-name airline.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

- the previous regime worked with the company to get envoy out of aa intl. ready-rooms and pushed the company to get a small spot for envoy. we had an episode of an envoy employee taking a bird bath and brushing his teeth in the kitchen/cooking sink of an aa ready-room. i was convinced that that was done to dare us to do something about it

the sooner we recognize that envoy are/could be our replacements, the better. there is no mystery about pay, benefits and quality of work life...if you work for envoy, you do not work for aa...despite all the happy/'family' talk from management, trying to boost envoy's morale.



why would anyone from laa/lus lift a finger to improve envoy's quality of work life? they are represented by the twu, that's their job.

some of them are very good workers and God bless them. others, do more harm to aa's bottom line and stats than any corporate spy could inflict upon us.

money that would go to us, could get diverted to envoy.

this isn't an ord issue, it is and could spread even more to be a system-wide problem, for laa & lus employees.

All of Envoy is not represented by TWU. Although they may gain 5 more stations if AA doesn't open back any stations. AA and Envoy dont really want union outside of the hubs. Envoy is still a wholly owned subsidiary. We're separate but still all under AAG. Different divisions of the same company. The non union ramp stations can't even get a raise without AA approving it. Yet they want to talk we are separate. BS. The only thing that woukd boost morale is a huge pay increase. It's unfortunate that you have a bunch of slobs from Envoy at your station but as you alluded to, many work hard and have a bit more sense than that. Some TWU Envoy guys just work different. We have one transfer from ORD that gets upset when you tell him bags going around the belt 100 times isn't normal.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Dude, Tim is NOT a union member. He is the resident deputy of government law, and a champion of worker rights, regardless of the situation or work group...

so, not a social justice warrior, but a blue-collar airline warrior.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

obviously, after 9-11, everything changed. less demand for seats....aa hit ord very hard.

within 3-4 years, normality came back and people started flying again. aa got caught with their pants down. the regionals have how many business class seats and business class lavs? aa moved the toggle switch too much in eagle/envoy's direction.

aa lost a lot of corporate travel back to ua in those times. ua flying 757s to yyz/yul out of ord. aa flying RJs to yyz & yul?

brilliant move, aa. this is why the 'bring crandall back' talk continues to this day.

increase regionals? you lose out in the end.

Definitely doesn't make sense to have regionals flying some routes. Especially from key cities. Management believes they are saving money but they lose out on so much more. We just started getting mainline flights to LAX this summer season til November. It's doing so well that they are changing the 175's scheduled to be back in November to 737's. Drastic change. I don't understand how these execs get these jobs because they don't get it.