American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Verify what Delta and United have for Scope and Medical costs. The company will now attempt to get what their nearest competitors have.

So if they have crappy Medical and crappy Scope and the Company is trying to bring us down to their level even when the TWU side is still under a BK agreement, what does that tell you?

Hence the mediation.
We all are going to lose now.

Since all you EVER do is complain. You can’t deny that you are this video.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Glad to hear we can count you in for the fight for SCOPE and MEDICAL

Back at ya Racer.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Good for you Matt. But apparently many of your Airline Forum co workers aren’t as patient as you. Apparently they don’t mind voting for an even further build of those outsourcing percentages it seems?




dvlhog how is the Association (Particularly I suppose the IAM?) screwing us if they don’t control the Company Bank Accounts or being able to force the Company to back off their positions for Scope?

I’m absolutely not claiming that the Association is a sweet Peach here but there are things that absolutely are not within their control that they have to try to overcome. (Or should they relent and risk even more hate and animosity when the jobs start to drain out over time)

And if your Step Daughter has better benefits at her new job, then why are we seemingly so quick to want to jump ship and keep our pretty crappy by comparison LAA Medical costs?

Weez lets start with the non vote and the lack of aggressive leadership. Look, I understand the non vote issue has been beat to death. The fact is though that transgression is unforgivable and in my eyes unrecoverable. The association simply can not ever get the absolute support from a membership that they so blatantly screwed.

Lack of real and aggressive leadership. A letter or two here and there. The occasional video from only the TWU side just does not get it done. Imho we need to see constant and real action on behalf of the leadership. Shop stewards on the floor and ramp keeping guys focused. On my workgroups side of things we have far too many guys skirting IAW to get the job done and gain favor with local management. I`d like to see our stewards out and about squashing this.

My statement of "the association screwing us" is an admitted catch all and born out of absolute frustration. We will never have anything resembling a unified work force until we have a vote on ONE union. One union, one voice is the only way forward. Until that happens we will stay divided and fighting amongst ourselves in addition to fighting the company. Just my 2 cents.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez lets start with the non vote and the lack of aggressive leadership. Look, I understand the non vote issue has been beat to death. The fact is though that transgression is unforgivable and in my eyes unrecoverable. The association simply can not ever get the absolute support from a membership that they so blatantly screwed.

Can’t say that they screwed us by not giving us what they had promised us which was a vote. Can say they lied to us though. Absolutely without a doubt they lied to us. And that does create a probably everlasting lack of trust in the joint venture itself.

Lack of real and aggressive leadership. A letter or two here and there. The occasional video from only the TWU side just does not get it done. Imho we need to see constant and real action on behalf of the leadership. Shop stewards on the floor and ramp keeping guys focused. On my workgroups side of things we have far too many guys skirting IAW to get the job done and gain favor with local management. I`d like to see our stewards out and about squashing this.

Nothing here unfortunately that I can argue against. I agree with your comment 100%.

The Association as a supposed cohesive entity is not inspiring the Membership at all. (Have to be honest here)

My statement of "the association screwing us" is an admitted catch all and born out of absolute frustration. We will never have anything resembling a unified work force until we have a vote on ONE union. One union, one voice is the only way forward. Until that happens we will stay divided and fighting amongst ourselves in addition to fighting the company. Just my 2 cents.

Neither Union will ever have a vote to cast off the other. I’m not even sure if Legally it would be something they could do after filing with and being certified by the NMB as an Association?

I “think” if they tried to just do it arbitrarily now they could/would be sued for misrepresentation? (A DFR charge) Again I’m obviously very unsure on that?

But they also would never do it because neither side would ever risk losing the Membership and along with it the revenue that comes in (Dues) or their Political (Money) positions from possibly losing. (Again have to be honest here)

 

[dfw gen]

Glad to hear we can count you in for the fight for SCOPE and MEDICAL

You can rely on us, as much as we can rely on you! Feel free to join the fight anytime!

 

[dfw gen]

Can’t say that they screwed us by not giving us what they had promised us which was a vote. Can say they lied to us though. Absolutely without a doubt they lied to us. And that does create a probably everlasting lack of trust in the joint venture itself.



Nothing here unfortunately that I can argue against. I agree with your comment 100%.

The Association as a supposed cohesive entity is not inspiring the Membership at all. (Have to be honest here)



Neither Union will ever have a vote to cast off the other. I’m not even sure if Legally it would be something they could do after filing with and being certified by the NMB as an Association?

I “think” if they tried to just do it arbitrarily now they could/would be sued for misrepresentation? (A DFR charge) Again I’m obviously very unsure on that?

But they also would never do it because neither side would ever risk losing the Membership and along with it the revenue that comes in (Dues) or their Political (Money) positions from possibly losing. (Again have to be honest here)

Unfortunately you are correct the association will take the membership for granted and neither entity will ever leave the association. The only ones that support the association are the ones collecting the dues.

 

[dfw gen]

The reality of the situation is that as dysfuntional as the association, both the iam and the twu are listed as representatives so neither one can start a card drive since the already represent us. The sad thing is that if the iam had actually been a partner from day one instead of deciding to not support previous protests the association could have proved its worth and accomplished something. Instead that blunder has fostered the lack of support it enjoys today.

 

[WeAAsles]

Unfortunately you are correct the association will take the membership for granted and neither entity will ever leave the association. The only ones that support the association are the ones collecting the dues.

I never said that I didn’t support the Association. I support the Association because it’s the Group that’s representing me against my employer who absolutely would prefer to give me less than I want. I think it’s counterproductive not to support whoever it is that’s representing us IMO.

I guess everyone can have something they put at the top of their list of things they want to focus on. Honestly the TWU/IAM Association and all the drama people want to attach to it including that lost vote has never been at the top of my “personal” list. And honestly as more things are happening (personally) it just keeps going further and further down for me.

The reality of the situation is that as dysfuntional as the association, both the iam and the twu are listed as representatives so neither one can start a card drive since the already represent us. The sad thing is that if the iam had actually been a partner from day one instead of deciding to not support previous protests the association could have proved its worth and accomplished something. Instead that blunder has fostered the lack of support it enjoys today.

According to that Contract language I posted apparently they legally can’t protest. They might be able to have supported in writing though?

Question: Would there be Legal ramifications for the IAM if they violated their own agreement and protested/picketed against the Company and what penalties could they possibly anticipate?

 

[B737 driver]

Verify what Delta and United have for Scope and Medical costs. The company will now attempt to get what their nearest competitors have.

Delta doesn't have scope they are non union, so that leaves United.

 

[MetalMover]

Delta doesn't have scope they are non union, so that leaves United.

They may not have "scope" per se.. But as we have been reminded in more than one town halls, "we have 3 - 4000 more mechanics than DL.
So it is scope-enough for them to compare.

 

[MetalMover]

Yes we are.
"MEDIATION"

Stand by for three more years of fist pounding videos from GP.

Actually GS now.

 

[MetalMover]

IAM outsourcing 50% bill man hours on maintenance work. I think AA 35 % total work outsourced. I can wait for a fair contract for both IAM and TWU

When is your retirement date?

 

[1AA]

The associations biggest fear is what the master seniority list will look like after we get a JCBA. We may see a new agreement but they see lost dues. Mediation is going to get dragged out for years. It will benefit the company and the association. The membership is the big loser. While this continues in mediation the company will continue to send work to South America and third party vendors in the USA. They will transfer work from Aircraft Maintenance to fleet. Fleet service is not immune either. The company will outsource more fleet work over time. Over time union members will retire and leave for other reasons. This gives the company wiggle room to move work without laying off. If you haven't noticed yet, it's about money. Company is squeezing every penny to maximize profits. The union is dragging out negotiations as long as possible to maximize dues. Eventually the association will lose. We may all lose depending on the outcome of a JCBA.

 

[swamt]

It's not all about the hourly wage. Our company along with this illegitimate association ARE screwing us. To be clear, AMTs at AA are NOT making $50+ an hour. I've been here over 28 years and my step daughter has better benefits at her new job. Which she has been at a whole 3 weeks. So yeah, we are getting screwed.

I hear ya hog. My son just got an offer for his new job, 125K with 10K in bonuses each year. That's more than his old man makes and I am proud of him. We mechanics should easily be in the 100K and above for 2080 hours worked for the responsibility we hold of human lives for the like of the aircraft.

Hence the mediation.
We all are going to lose now.

I agree. I think mediation may have came a little too soon with too many open items left, so yes, I think both sides will lose a little here and there.

Weez lets start with the non vote and the lack of aggressive leadership. Look, I understand the non vote issue has been beat to death. The fact is though that transgression is unforgivable and in my eyes unrecoverable. The association simply can not ever get the absolute support from a membership that they so blatantly screwed.

Lack of real and aggressive leadership. A letter or two here and there. The occasional video from only the TWU side just does not get it done. Imho we need to see constant and real action on behalf of the leadership. Shop stewards on the floor and ramp keeping guys focused. On my workgroups side of things we have far too many guys skirting IAW to get the job done and gain favor with local management. I`d like to see our stewards out and about squashing this.

My statement of "the association screwing us" is an admitted catch all and born out of absolute frustration. We will never have anything resembling a unified work force until we have a vote on ONE union. One union, one voice is the only way forward. Until that happens we will stay divided and fighting amongst ourselves in addition to fighting the company. Just my 2 cents.

Very well said hog...

 

[swamt]

I will say this. Since more and more mechanics have started more participation in this thread, it has gotten a lot better. Makes more sense now...