AUG/SEPT 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[freedom]

I'd like to change the course of conversation and get some feedback from you guy's concerning the negotiations. After talking to some co-workers about the question of the union talaking strike to the company. How many would support that situation. Most I've talked to said for no more tahn the union has done, they would cross the picket line because if the company fired us for walking, they have no faith in the union to get our jobs back. What's the consensus and is the negotiating aware of the lack of support from the membership?

I don't think we will ever even need to consider striking ... in fact talk of a strike is not even constructive ... we need to plan for our eventual merger with American ...

If we get absorbed by the TWU , then we former IAM memebers need to make sure we work as a team and get the new combined union to MOVE QUICKLY to a new contract ...

it took far too long to get a contract when AWA and US Air merged , let's learn from our prior merger and do things better and faster this time .

Most of the other Rampers i've talked to expect increased benfits/wages in a new combined work group ... yet no one i've talked to is shooting for the moon ... more holidays , a higher top out rate and another week of vaction .. all very reasonable ....

 

[necigrad]

I don't think we will ever even need to consider striking

I think (and hope) you're right.

in fact talk of a strike is not even constructive

Uhhh... You know NOTHING about unionism them. Striking is the greatest power employees have. I agree that there should not be a "Screw 'em, we'll strike!" attitude, but talk of a strike is the only way to have a strike. The threat MUST be there or the company can do whatever they want in negotiations. There would be no pressure to negotiate, only to offer nothing.

we need to plan for our eventual merger with American

It would be wise to plan for ALL outcomes. Fortunatly for us (and US come to think of it) you're not responsible for any planning.

 

[ChockJockey]

I don't think we will ever even need to consider striking ... in fact talk of a strike is not even constructive ... we need to plan for our eventual merger with American ...

If we get absorbed by the TWU , then we former IAM memebers need to make sure we work as a team and get the new combined union to MOVE QUICKLY to a new contract ...

it took far too long to get a contract when AWA and US Air merged , let's learn from our prior merger and do things better and faster this time .

I agree.

Most of the other Rampers i've talked to expect increased benfits/wages in a new combined work group ... yet no one i've talked to is shooting for the moon ... more holidays , a higher top out rate and another week of vaction .. all very reasonable ....

Yes, I would like a better contract. One that doesn't allow management trolls to unilaterally determine the attendance policy would be a good start.

 

[ograc]

I don't think we will ever even need to consider striking ... in fact talk of a strike is not even constructive ... we need to plan for our eventual merger with American ...

If we get absorbed by the TWU , then we former IAM memebers need to make sure we work as a team and get the new combined union to MOVE QUICKLY to a new contract ...

it took far too long to get a contract when AWA and US Air merged , let's learn from our prior merger and do things better and faster this time .

Most of the other Rampers i've talked to expect increased benfits/wages in a new combined work group ... yet no one i've talked to is shooting for the moon ... more holidays , a higher top out rate and another week of vaction .. all very reasonable ....

Increased benefits/wages, more holidays and another week of vacation is all the members are looking for in the next contract. This short term mentality is why we are in the position we are in. None of the members seem to realize the importance of stronger, long term, scope and merger/ acquisition language that protects the membership from continual contracting out of IAM Fleet represented work. If this issue is not addressed and stopped, with stronger contractual language, it will only be a matter of time before any and all surviving members pay. As the membership numbers dwindle, so to, does the leverage the union has at the bargaining table and their ability to successfully resolve grievances. Eventually, we will be in a position of take it or leave it, regarding negotiations and contractual grievances with the company. This is exactly where the company wants to lead us. With short term narrow minded, selfish expectations of our members, we may win the battle but will surely lose the war. The company is confident of it. Until the memberships' mindset changes we will continue to be our worst enemy.
ograc

 

[mike33]

I'd like to change the course of conversation and get some feedback from you guy's concerning the negotiations. After talking to some co-workers about the question of the union talaking strike to the company. How many would support that situation. Most I've talked to said for no more tahn the union has done, they would cross the picket line because if the company fired us for walking, they have no faith in the union to get our jobs back. What's the consensus and is the negotiating aware of the lack of support from the membership?

In any unknown situation, ( and negotiations are just that ) , ones' greatest power besides solidarity is the power of not knowing what you are capable of doing. To even talk about it in a public forum where all can see is weakening ones' strength.
So 2 years ago i started preparing by saving a little here and there. If released, im prepared and i need not say what im prepared for. So lets wait and see. Thats all we can do for now. Let the negotiators negotiate and lets hope A.H. realizes that times have changed and the people who kept this company in play, and that includes all work groups, deserve to be recognized!.......Contracts are like the stock market...........if you give up alot with 1 swipe of a pen, it may take ten times that long to get back to par and i think we at least deserve par and more.....
Its been long enough!

BTW i dont know any union ( if you are referring to our officers ) talking strike. They know the process and strike is not one of them yet.

 

[ChockJockey]

BTW i dont know any union ( if you are referring to our officers ) talking strike. They know the process and strike is not one of them yet.

Indeed. This merger situation affords opportunities for leverage for those wise enough to see and exploit them. Striking is certainly an option, but a hasty and poor one at this juncture. We should give the company the chance to present terms that show they are serious about wanting us on board with their aspirations. Job and scope protections should be paramount among these.

If however they decide it's in their best interests to play games, string us along and refuse to negotiate in good faith then we should consider all of our options.

 

[ograc]

Indeed. This merger situation affords opportunities for leverage for those wise enough to see and exploit them. Striking is certainly an option, but a hasty and poor one at this juncture. We should give the company the chance to present terms that show they are serious about wanting us on board with their aspirations. Job and scope protections should be paramount among these.

If however they decide it's in their best interests to play games, string us along and refuse to negotiate in good faith then we should consider all of our options.

Very insightful and intellegent. This indeed should and hopefully will be the course the IAM Leadership and Negotiating Committee will pursue.
ograc

 

[necigrad]

No one should be talking about a strike right now. A strike vote serves two purposes. Obviously it give the approval of the membership to stike. More importantly, however, is that it should be a vote of confidence in the negotiating commitee that the membership fells they are adaquatly representing them, that they have a good grasp of the situation, and that we respect their observations and conclusions. The negotiating commitee is the ones talking to the company; no rank and file member truly knows what the company is doing, be it good faith negotiating or just stonewalling.

As of right now, negotiations do seem to be progressing. There could certianly be a valid complaint that the company needs to make a better effort in increasing the frequency of meetings, but things ARE progressing. That said, were the negotiating commitee and DL leadership to say that it was time for a vote, I would vote affirmativly.

 

[freedom]

Increased benefits/wages, more holidays and another week of vacation is all the members are looking for in the next contract. This short term mentality is why we are in the position we are in. None of the members seem to realize the importance of stronger, long term, scope and merger/ acquisition language that protects the membership from continual contracting out of IAM Fleet represented work. If this issue is not addressed and stopped, with stronger contractual language, it will only be a matter of time before any and all surviving members pay. As the membership numbers dwindle, so to, does the leverage the union has at the bargaining table and their ability to successfully resolve grievances. Eventually, we will be in a position of take it or leave it, regarding negotiations and contractual grievances with the company. This is exactly where the company wants to lead us. With short term narrow minded, selfish expectations of our members, we may win the battle but will surely lose the war. The company is confident of it. Until the memberships' mindset changes we will continue to be our worst enemy.
ograc

well of course the only reason i didn't mention that was because it was a given ... i don't want to see us lose any more stations either ....

i think in the next contract we need to focus on lowering the threshold on contracting out stations ... once we merge with American we might actually get back alot of stations ...

but yeah , i won't be voting for any new contract that gets rid of workers ...

 

[ograc]

well of course the only reason i didn't mention that was because it was a given ... i don't want to see us lose any more stations either ....

i think in the next contract we need to focus on lowering the threshold on contracting out stations ... once we merge with American we might actually get back alot of stations ...

but yeah , i won't be voting for any new contract that gets rid of workers ...

Thank you freedom! You're realization of protecting members' jobs is encouraging. You're right... with better scope language we may actually reverse the trend of losing stations and gain some. Remember, stations represent members jobs and livelihoods. IMO... it's time we start focusing on this issue. The past negligence, from previous negotiating committees, regarding this issue has cost countless members' jobs and livlihoods. Hopefully, the existing committee and membership, realizes the importance.
ograc

 

[700UW]

Did you not see AA is outsourcing the majority of their stations?

Cutting like over 4,000 jobs.

 

[ograc]

Did you not see AA is outsourcing the majority of their stations?

Cutting like over 4,000 jobs.

It's the trend of US and AA concerning Fleet Service jobs. It's time to put less emphasis on compensation issues such as wage, benefits, vacation and sick time in contract negotiations and focus more emphasis on protecting our work and ultimately our jobs. I may be missing something... but it doesn't do much good getting improvements in compensation and the likes while thousands of members are shown the door. Certainly not good for the affected members or the future of those left represented. IMO... if we don't realize this soon we'll all be flushed.
ograc

 

[blue collar]

It's the trend of US and AA concerning Fleet Service jobs. It's time to put less emphasis on compensation issues such as wage, benefits, vacation and sick time in contract negotiations and focus more emphasis on protecting our work and ultimately our jobs. I may be missing something... but it doesn't do much good getting improvements in compensation and the likes while thousands of members are shown the door. Certainly not good for the affected members or the future of those left represented. IMO... if we don't realize this soon we'll all be flushed.
ograc

I understand protecting scope, but at what point is it worth it to forego compensation/benefits improvements to keep more people on the property?

 

[ChockJockey]

I understand protecting scope, but at what point is it worth it to forego compensation/benefits improvements to keep more people on the property?

Why should these be mutually exclusive?

 

[blue collar]

Why should these be mutually exclusive?

They shouldn't be, but the way things have been going in the industry they are. That's the reason that I asked. If the company says we'll reopen a couple of stations, but your pay/benefits remains stagnant for the contract term, is it worth it to you?