DL's profit does not disappoint.

[WorldTraveler]

sorry, I didn't get an education in Georgia. that is probably why I can understand that more people to deliver the same amount of revenue is not a feather in one's cap.

I have no problems at all if AA has as large of an MRO as DL.

they were much larger in the past.

TAESL is a separate company.

since we're actually having a (mostly) civil discussion, is there any chance that DL could ever take on other GE engines?
any idea why no US airline has so far been certified as a Boeing 787 facility? or have they?

 

[eolesen]

TAESL may be a separate company, but it's just a shell.  The majority of the employees are seconded from AA with a few in sales and technical support who are seconded from Rolls.  Since nobody works for the JV, all of their employees show up in the counts of the respective JV partner.
 
AA is also still largely self-handled in a lot of international locations where DL is likely handled by a Skyteam partner.  LHR is one example where AA has several hundred employees, despite it being a BA hub.  Not sure if AA still has its own call center in Europe or not, but they did have DUB which would add another couple hundred heads where DL has outsourced that function to AFKL.
 
The only place internationally I can think of where DL still has its own ground handling staff is NRT, and maybe FRA.
 
Start carrying that type of math across the international system, and you're talking some real differences in headcount.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL is self-handled in a lot more stations than you think, esp. in Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East.

and I would strongly bet that the size of DL's NRT staff is larger than AA's at LHR. and DL does have its own personnel at LHR.


and, I can also assure you that DL has its own personnel in more US locations than AA/US or UA have.

how many US res offices does AA have left?

again, the details may be fun to discuss but it all comes down tot the total amount of revenue and total amount of employees.

 

[737823]

For AA: SRO (DFW) and SERO (RDU) along with home based agents in TUS area. Recent closings (past 10 years) include BDL, CVG, STL, and TUS.


For US: INT and PHX

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL still has domestic res offices in ATL, CVG, DFW, MSP, SLC, TPA, Iron Range (MN) and work at home plus Moscow and SIN (a 24/7 office with over 400 agents)

 

[eolesen]

Ground handling is just one of several possible explanations.  Another factor I suspect is that DL comes out lighter on employee counts due to more part-timers vs. full-timers because of the lack of union constraints. There's also the potential for more cross-utilization in the outstations with DL than anywhere else for the same reason.
 
The point is... without some specific counts by workgroup, you're barking at the moon when you try to compare employee productivity.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kev has repeatedly said that DL in reality doesn't cross-utilize employees in ACS.

barking at the moon is trying to deny that 15K employees is way too large of a gap to have between two companies that produce very similar amounts of revenue.

it will not stay that way but it is now.

 

[topDawg]

sorry, I didn't get an education in Georgia. that is probably why I can understand that more people to deliver the same amount of revenue is not a feather in one's cap.

I question if you have an education at all. This thread is a clear example that you have no earthy idea what your talking about. 
 

TAESL is a separate company.

As E said, technically yes, but the vast majority of employees are AA employees. Its not like Delta JVs that are covered by contractors......... 
 
Oh what do i win for TAESL already doing the US RB211s? (that you said they wouldn't do) 
 

since we're actually having a (mostly) civil discussion, is there any chance that DL could ever take on other GE engines?
any idea why no US airline has so far been certified as a Boeing 787 facility? or have they?

Unless a new test cell is built Delta can not run a GEnX or GE90 in any of its cells. The big cell in Atlanta would have air flow issues running the 10E engines also. Same deal for the Trent 700, 800, 7000, XWB and 1000. Not being able to run them in a cell means no overhaul. 
 
I believe UA(via) CO have power by the hour agreements on the GEnX. AA has not signed any agreements that I know of for its GE90 and GEnX overhauls. (both a years away from needing an overhaul. However, I don't believe AA has a test cell that can run the 115Bs. Maybe the TAESL cell? but I believe they are limited to around 70K at TULE) 
 
I believe UA is a 787 facility? 
 
and I also believe Delta applied to be a GoldCare provider years ago. No idea where they said on that. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

funny how someone who can't grasp that more people to deliver is the same amount of revenue is not a good thing is now saying that I have no education.

You are the best advertisement for the Universities of Tennessee and Florida that they could wish for - and Georgia could dread.

and while TAESL might have contracted with AA employees, perhaps you can tell us what % of the cost of building the facility that TAESL uses to service large engines was paid for by RR.

 

[topDawg]

funny how someone who can't grasp that more people to deliver is the same amount of revenue is not a good thing is now saying that I have no education.

You are the best advertisement for the Universities of Tennessee and Florida that they could wish for - and Georgia could dread.

Talk about my UGA education all you want. At least I can read and understand English, something you have shown time and time again you can't do well. 
 

and while TAESL might have contracted with AA employees, perhaps you can tell us what % of the cost of building the facility that TAESL uses to service large engines was paid for by RR.

TAESL doesn't "contract" with AA employees. AA does the work. Call it what you want to call it but AA employees are doing the work. Getting paid by AA. On the TWU seniority list etc. etc. I believe that even AA is the lease holder on the facility, as it was part of the larger AFW MX base. 
 
FWIW TAESL is a great example of Rollers willing to work with customers compared to other OEMs (ahem GE).
 
 
 
 
Oh and I was wrong, The AFW cell can run a GE90 in it.  
 
 
and I just want to let you know that AA is already doing the RB211s that you said they wouldn't do for US one more time. 
 
 
 
and who paid for it? Well I show that Fort Worth is the one who mostly paid for it. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

suppose that perhaps the reason that DL didn't and still doesn't do large engine overhauls is because they had very few planes with large engines?

DL had precisely 8 772ERs before ordering the LRs.

you are right and I agree that GE doesn't work with airlines.

I presume DL factored that into its decision to acquire aircraft and if they couldn't do anything about it, they just accepted that is the way the system works.

I would absolutely love to see DL do more large engine overhauls but if AA/TAESL has exclusivity for Rolls engines and GE won't share and DL and PW have their issues, then perhaps DL just isn't going to do that much large engine business.

it's obvious that you thrive on being able to say you were right... so, yes, AA will probably take over doing overhauls on the US 757s. how many overhauls do you think they have left in them? don't they have or had some of the original EA 757s?

 

[topDawg]

suppose that perhaps the reason that DL didn't and still doesn't do large engine overhauls is because they had very few planes with large engines?

that is part of it. 
 
When Delta ordered the 77Ls Gerry wanted to make them as close to the 77W as possible. 77W landing gear, 115B engines etc. The idea was Delta would end up with a large fleet of 77L and 77Ws. Rumors were a new cell was going to happen and Delta was going to do the GE90 in-house because it was such a large up and coming engine. 
 
But the merger happened and everything basically stopped. (and tony took over TechOps.) 
 

DL had precisely 8 772ERs before ordering the LRs.

Delta having the engines help, but Delta also knows how to run a line without having many or any engines. 
 

I presume DL factored that into its decision to acquire aircraft and if they couldn't do anything about it, they just accepted that is the way the system works.

Delta hasn't had anyone in TechOps for a while that wants to do work in-house. Tony was all about cutting. Stuff they could do in-house he sent out just cause..... 
 
Don has a new mind set. I have heard he is fighting to make sure the CF6 and PW4000 replacements are done in-house. I will believe that though as soon as I see a new test cell being built..... 
 

I would absolutely love to see DL do more large engine overhauls but if AA/TAESL has exclusivity for Rolls engines and GE won't share and DL and PW have their issues, then perhaps DL just isn't going to do that much large engine business.

TAESL doesn't have exclusivity. 
 
As i have said before, OEMs only have control when the airlines give it to them. If Delta wants to do GEnX, GE90, GE9X, T1000, T700, T800, TWXB, T7000 etc. in house they can. It is all a matter of if they want to spend the money to do so(because a new cell will have to be built along with the tooling). GE or RR or PW isn't going to tell Delta they "can't" do an engine in-house. 
 
That is how airlines like AF are doing GE90s daily. They don't have any kind of deal with GE. AF said they are doing them in house, period. And are doing MRO for them, period. 
 
and in the case of the 787 because it is a two OEM airplane Delta can play them off of each other. IIRC AF used Rolls to get the GEnX MRO on the 787. Told GE they would order the Trents if GE didn't back off....
 

it's obvious that thrive on being able to say you were right... so, yes, AA will probably take over doing overhauls on the US 757s. how many overhauls do you think they have left in them? don't they have or had some of the original EA 757s?

I believe all the 2nd hand airplanes are gone. US ordered 757s in the 90s and are used for the TATL ETOPS fleet. I would assume they will be around for a while because they can't really be replaced. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

TAESL doesn't have exclusivity. 
 
As i have said before, OEMs only have control when the airlines give it to them. If Delta wants to do GEnX, GE90, GE9X, T1000, T700, T800, TWXB, T7000 etc. in house they can. It is all a matter of if they want to spend the money to do so(because a new cell will have to be built along with the tooling). GE or RR or PW isn't going to tell Delta they "can't" do an engine in-house. 
 
That is how airlines like AF are doing GE90s daily. They don't have any kind of deal with GE. AF said they are doing them in house, period. And are doing MRO for them, period. 
 
and in the case of the 787 because it is a two OEM airplane Delta can play them off of each other. IIRC AF used Rolls to get the GEnX MRO on the 787. Told GE they would order the Trents if GE didn't back off....

very helpful info.

let me know when and where I can sign the petition.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

You are the best advertisement for the Universities of Tennessee and Florida that they could wish for - and Georgia could dread.

^^^
What a classless comment.
 
You better not bring up character assassination, ever.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't say that anyone is uneducated because I don't agree with their position either

let's be very clear that I can debate issues with anyone that wants to do so without turning it personal.

but when that happens, I live by the rules other people set.

If dawg wants to disagree with my positions, that's fine. Don't call me or anyone else uneducated because he doesn't agree with me.

and it isn't just me that this is done to.