DTW AMFA Local 5 Union Rally

[Red Tail Bear]

Criminals? I'm not sure what laws we're breaking, so you'll have to let me (and AG Hatch) in on that.

Actually, we'll just pay him a fair wage for the services that he provides. Morals doesn't really factor in to the equation, only economics. If he feels that what we have to offer is less than he can earn elsewhere, then he will leave. If that occurs often enough, then we will raise wages in order to keep good mechanics (and avoid costly hiring and training costs). It's a pretty simple (and fair) process when the free market is allowed to work.

A fair wage? In who's eyes?
I guess one of the prerequisites of becoming management is to not have any "morals".

 

[finman]

A fair wage? In who's eyes?
I guess one of the prerequisites of becoming management is to not have any "morals".

In the eyes of the market, of course. The market is the combined decisions of hundreds of millions of people driving demand and supply for a particular item. Are you saying all of those decisions are immoral if the end result is a market rate that is below what you think it should be?

 

[PlayTheOdds]

finman, I have been preaching the laws of supply and demand since the beginning of this fiasco they just don't get it. These guys have a huge following for a socialist style government. Thus they think that Corporate America should follow the same guidelines.

 

[Hackman]

Criminals? I'm not sure what laws we're breaking, so you'll have to let me (and AG Hatch) in on that.

Actually, we'll just pay him a fair wage for the services that he provides. Morals doesn't really factor in to the equation, only economics. If he feels that what we have to offer is less than he can earn elsewhere, then he will leave. If that occurs often enough, then we will raise wages in order to keep good mechanics (and avoid costly hiring and training costs). It's a pretty simple (and fair) process when the free market is allowed to work.

Yeah finman, criminals:
http://citypages.com/databank/26/1272/article13199.asp

"The losses don't just affect the mechanics. In the last 15 years, Minnesota taxpayers have repeatedly been asked to help the hometown airline. The rationale each time was to keep good jobs here. In 1991 and again in 1994, Northwest promised to maintain 17,883 jobs in the state and to create 2,000 more mechanics' positions in northern Minnesota in exchange for massive taxpayer-funded bailouts.

The vast majority of the mechanics' jobs never materialized, however, and the airline's employment is now well below the agreed-upon level. More than half of Northwest's current maintenance spending is with outside firms. With the demolition of one of its Twin Cities hangars later this year, even more work may be outsourced. The airline already performs heavy maintenance on its larger jets in China and Singapore. If industry analysts are correct, in coming years many more planes could be serviced in India and in Central and South America."

...Or how about how NWA management POS criminals crap on a sick F/A, real nice guys here;

http://citypages.com/databank/26/1288/article13573.asp

....meanwhile, Dougie Stealin' lines his pockets as he bilks the employees and Minnesota for all they are worth;
http://twincities.bizjournals.com/twinciti...ml?jst=t3_ln_hl

Is that enough criminal activity finman? I have more dirty deeds on NWA, but that's good for now. I'm sure your damn proud, its just business NitWitAir style.... :down: :down: :down:

 

[finman]

Yeah finman, criminals:
http://citypages.com/databank/26/1272/article13199.asp

"The losses don't just affect the mechanics. In the last 15 years, Minnesota taxpayers have repeatedly been asked to help the hometown airline. The rationale each time was to keep good jobs here. In 1991 and again in 1994, Northwest promised to maintain 17,883 jobs in the state and to create 2,000 more mechanics' positions in northern Minnesota in exchange for massive taxpayer-funded bailouts.

The vast majority of the mechanics' jobs never materialized, however, and the airline's employment is now well below the agreed-upon level. More than half of Northwest's current maintenance spending is with outside firms. With the demolition of one of its Twin Cities hangars later this year, even more work may be outsourced. The airline already performs heavy maintenance on its larger jets in China and Singapore. If industry analysts are correct, in coming years many more planes could be serviced in India and in Central and South America."

...Or how about how NWA management POS criminals crap on a sick F/A, real nice guys here;

http://citypages.com/databank/26/1288/article13573.asp

....meanwhile, Dougie Stealin' lines his pockets as he bilks the employees and Minnesota for all they are worth;
http://twincities.bizjournals.com/twinciti...ml?jst=t3_ln_hl

Is that enough criminal activity finman? I have more dirty deeds on NWA, but that's good for now. I'm sure your damn proud, its just business NitWitAir style.... :down: :down: :down:

These are not "criminal" activities. It would be more accurate to start using a word like "frugal" or "ungracious", which I would not disagree with as it relates to your two examples. Criminal implies that an actual law was broken, which your city pages (very objective source by the way) articles do not suggest. Just a semantics issue I guess. I realize that NWA has taken some hard lines on issues in an attempt to save money (and save the airline), that I too disagree with.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

finman, I have been preaching the laws of supply and demand since the beginning of this fiasco they just don't get it. These guys have a huge following for a socialist style government. Thus they think that Corporate America should follow the same guidelines.

No,not the same.Just a set of guidlines "not specifically set up" in their favor.

 

[Opus]

Opus, you are a true DUMBASS, just like your buddy PTO. 26 weeks of pay and benefits that would never have been paid due to a "bait and switch" clause. AMFA did the right thing and you scabs sold out your profession for a free hotel room. You scabs are nothing but freeloaders and thieves and one day you will have to pay for what you have done.

Dear Princess, I sold nothing for a free hotel room. I dont know where you get your info but you are NOT CORRECT. Further...I am not now nor have I ever been a thief. I have not stolen anything and have always paid my way through life. Currently I dont just pay my way but that of my kids and one nephew and my mother in law and my wife. My kids are in college, my nephew moved up here to get away from the south and midwest and is saving all his money and will go back to college in the fall semester and my mother in law cant afford to live on her own with the cost of her in addition to medicare insurance and cost of her medications. I DONT COME ON THESE BOARDS AND THREATEN PEOPLE ALTHOUGH THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU HAVE, on a previous occasion you actually made a death threat. You are not capable of seeing any other side of any discussion you are only capable of ranting and raving and name calling you are not open to any discussion. Sadly you represent what I have met of amfa members. Try to honestly open your limited intellectual capacity to the ability to see more than one line fed side of a discussion or are you only spewing talking points and failing in that resorting to pat responses like .....scab scab scab scumbag ect ect.

 

[finman]

No,not the same.Just a set of guidlines "not specifically set up" in their favor.

What does that even mean? What handcuffs do you think government should put on corporations in order to make them operate like you'd like to see. Do you think the governement should mandate a certain minimum pay rate for every type of job classification? Please expand on your thought, as I'm very curious if you've actually put any thought into this, or if you are just throwing out something that you heard somewhere that sounded nice.

 

[Hackman]

These are not "criminal" activities. It would be more accurate to start using a word like "frugal" or "ungracious", which I would not disagree with as it relates to your two examples. Criminal implies that an actual law was broken, which your city pages (very objective source by the way) articles do not suggest. Just a semantics issue I guess. I realize that NWA has taken some hard lines on issues in an attempt to save money (and save the airline), that I too disagree with.

No, not bargaining in "good faith" as the RLA requires, which is Federal Law, is not criminal? Unfortuately, the RLA is so skewed against the worker its almost worthless. Its just typical of managenment criminals to quip, "who me, criminal?". Big business never admits to anything unless they get pulled into court and soundly thrashed. Of course, with all the millions they have for the best lawyers, they usually saves the day.

I will continue this discussion later, as I have something better to do at this time. :huh:

 

[finman]

No, not bargaining in "good faith" as the RLA requires, which is Federal Law, is not criminal? Unfortuately, the RLA is so skewed against the worker its almost worthless. Its just typical of managenment criminals to quip, "who me, criminal?". Big business never admits to anything unless they get pulled into court and soundly thrashed. Of course, with all the millions they have for the best lawyers, they usually saves the day.

I will continue this discussion later, as I have something better to do at this time. :huh:

It seems that "good faith" is a very vague term that could be interpreted differently depending on the financial status of the company. Regardless, offering about 2000 jobs when all we really needed from AMFA was 900 sounds like a good faith offer to me. It just so happended that our good faith offer was less than AMFA wanted.

NWA could have caved and offered more to the mechanics, but you know full well that that AMFA knew bankrupcy was imminent, and they thought they could get a better deal in that process. They wagered 2000 jobs and lost.

 

[Kev3188]

... Do you think the governement should mandate a certain minimum pay rate for every type of job classification? ...

There's nothing wrong with a "living wage" on a national scale.

 

[Opus]

There's nothing wrong with a "living wage" on a national scale.

Kev, People say that kind of thing and then go spend their money at Walmart, chinas biggest trading partner. When people spend their money on garbage that is imported they can consider every dollar being spent is going to the decimation of more American jobs. Nothing is going to change until Americans start voting for America with their money and their political votes instead of spending and voting against America and the American worker, further American workers have to wake up to the reality that unskilled jobs are not going to buy someone a 100,000. home, glorified maids (uneducated unskilled aircraft cleaners)are not and should not earn what a educated registered nurse earns nor what an educated teacher earns. Reality is a hard pill for some to swallow but as Americans we have to do everything we can to keep skilled and unskilled jobs in America and until and unless we are competitive fiscally and productively we will not be competitive.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, People say that kind of thing and then go spend their money at Walmart, chinas biggest trading partner. When people spend their money on garbage that is imported they can consider every dollar being spent is going to the decimation of more American jobs.

You'll get no arguement here on this. The irony of people shopping themselves out of jobs isn't lost on me.

Nothing is going to change until Americans start voting for America with their money and their political votes instead of spending and voting against America and the American worker, further American workers have to wake up to the reality that unskilled jobs are not going to buy someone a 100,000. home, glorified maids (uneducated unskilled aircraft cleaners)are not and should not earn what a educated registered nurse earns nor what an educated teacher earns.

Education *should* be rewarded with the ability to command a higher wage; however,$5.15/hour doesn't even allow someone to entertain the idea of home ownership; in fact, in some areas of the country, it's impossible to survive on this, which of course leads to more people on state aid, etc.

Reality is a hard pill for some to swallow but as Americans we have to do everything we can to keep skilled and unskilled jobs in America and until and unless we are competitive fiscally and productively we will not be competitive.

The best way to keep these jobs here (where they belong) is to make them palatable to workers, and that starts with a decent wage.

 

[finman]

There's nothing wrong with a "living wage" on a national scale.

So you think it's better for a person to not have a job at all then to have a job that is lower than this "living wage" that you suggest.

That is exactly how the economics of your scenerio would work. If a persons skillset, intellect, work ethic, etc. is only worth $5.00/hr worth for a given employer, then that person will not be hired if that employer is mandated by the governement to pay $7.00/hr. The employer will either a. choose to hire someone more qualified that is worth >$7.00 per hour, or B. not hire anyone. Either way, the person that is only worth $5.00 per hour does not get a job and earn valuable work experience that could lead to a better paying job.

 

[aafsc]

Kev, People say that kind of thing and then go spend their money at Walmart, chinas biggest trading partner. When people spend their money on garbage that is imported they can consider every dollar being spent is going to the decimation of more American jobs. Nothing is going to change until Americans start voting for America with their money and their political votes instead of spending and voting against America and the American worker, further American workers have to wake up to the reality that unskilled jobs are not going to buy someone a 100,000. home, glorified maids (uneducated unskilled aircraft cleaners)are not and should not earn what a educated registered nurse earns nor what an educated teacher earns. Reality is a hard pill for some to swallow but as Americans we have to do everything we can to keep skilled and unskilled jobs in America and until and unless we are competitive fiscally and productively we will not be competitive.

Just for your information, in many areas of the country like the major and midsized cities $100,000 homes do not exist. The cost for a small house costs much more. I guess you think that aircraft cleaners and the like should just live out on the streets.