JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[1AA]

I was one of those seeking change.  There were more in Tulsa than me though and we tried our best.  We got lots of cards though but didn't get enough.  The line out numbers overhaul now so there shouldn't be a problem.  Doing phase checks on the line is a stupid idea that will prove itself in time to be just that.  But your earlier post only mentioned over haul being outsourced and seemed to take pleasure in it due to everything bad being Tulsa's fault.  Go ahead and continue the hate.  It is pointless to try to get you people to stop with the crap the company and union has used against us for years.  When my job is outsourced I'll deal with it.  But you line guys will have to deal with a bunch of O/H guys bumping into stations.  If we get bumping rights like the IAM guys have now it won't be LAX, ORD and JFK and I think you know that.  But you are safe where you are because of the lousy bumping rights we currently have.  So go ahead and hope for our demise.  I really hate the fact that I have "Brothers" like you out there who only think for themselves.  You have no right to call anyone in Tulsa out as you are a "Me" guy yourself as per your posts.  There are many of us in Tulsa that tried to make change happen but we are just scum to you because we are in Tulsa.  We are in the position of being last because of guys like you.  I hope ALL our jobs are safe but if not I hope I can choose where to go.  As far as you are concerned I am disgusted to have you in my craft.  We have lost this fight because of YOU and people like YOU.  I'm tired of trying to get you one way thinking hypocrites on the same side so you can have it.  When Tulsa is gone you'll have nobody to blame but your own hypocritical self.  That day is coming and obviously can't get here fast enough for you.  Line guys are the only ones who tried for change. By the way....  The line couldn't get 100% to sign cards did they?  But I guess we were supposed to get everyone in Tulsa to?  You're pathetic.

You read me wrong. Your bitter and pissed. I understand but I never wanted to see Tulsa go down in flames or any station line or overhaul. Too much I got mine in Tulsa over the years. The union rode that wagon and today we are where we are because the industrial unions main concern was dues. Our profession is hurting. Unskilled labor in third party facilities domestic and overseas. No benefits to attract fresh wrench turners. Maybe you meant to say the the TWU is pathetic for leading us down this path. I doubt many high timers in Tulsa will bump to a line station and start commuting. You've seen the loads on these flights? Let's not forget about Phoenix and Pittsburgh and Charlotte. They have overhaul as well. Remember we are an association of one with a JCBA coming to nail the coffin. Line stations may out number overhaul but what about UsAir line guys? They have their issues and the IAM will probably keep them hostage as well. You need to look at the big picture. Unfortunately Tulsa was led in the past to worry about Tulsa. The AFW and MCI threats are gone. Now you have Charlotte and Phoenix to be concerned about. Don't let the line stations get under your skin. The big threat may be the Association, other overhaul bases and the outsourcing. Peace brother.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

You read me wrong. Your bitter and pissed. I understand but I never wanted to see Tulsa go down in flames or any station line or overhaul. Too much I got mine in Tulsa over the years. The union rode that wagon and today we are where we are because the industrial unions main concern was dues. Our profession is hurting. Unskilled labor in third party facilities domestic and overseas. No benefits to attract fresh wrench turners. Maybe you meant to say the the TWU is pathetic for leading us down this path. I doubt many high timers in Tulsa will bump to a line station and start commuting. You've seen the loads on these flights? Let's not forget about Phoenix and Pittsburgh and Charlotte. They have overhaul as well. Remember we are an association of one with a JCBA coming to nail the coffin. Line stations may out number overhaul but what about UsAir line guys? They have their issues and the IAM will probably keep them hostage as well. You need to look at the big picture. Unfortunately Tulsa was led in the past to worry about Tulsa. The AFW and MCI threats are gone. Now you have Charlotte and Phoenix to be concerned about. Don't let the line stations get under your skin. The big threat may be the Association, other overhaul bases and the outsourcing. Peace brother.

I'm not saying Tulsa is blameless either we all know the "I got mine" crowd has done much damage to us all.  The IAM is just another cancer inflicted on us and will be a tough nut to crack.  Those guys are being held hostage by an underfunded pension and probably won't go along with a change.  That leaves LAA guys like you and me.  Lots of outsourcing will happen if the company get it's way.  Yes the TWU is pathetic for rubber stamping lousy deals over the years and looking out for dues income for them instead of quality of jobs for us.  I am old and bitter and pissed.  There are things that need to be done and the first is to send this association packing but we need to work together.  If all LAA will get together we can get rid of the association.  The only place that 1/3 of the numbers get 50% say is this association that allows it.  We need a plan and we need unity to make it happen.  After the association and the IAM and their ponzi pension plan is gone we can make big changes.  We have common enemies let's join forces and get rid of them.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You read me wrong. Your bitter and pissed. I understand but I never wanted to see Tulsa go down in flames or any station line or overhaul. Too much I got mine in Tulsa over the years. The union rode that wagon and today we are where we are because the industrial unions main concern was dues. Our profession is hurting. Unskilled labor in third party facilities domestic and overseas. No benefits to attract fresh wrench turners. Maybe you meant to say the the TWU is pathetic for leading us down this path. I doubt many high timers in Tulsa will bump to a line station and start commuting. You've seen the loads on these flights? Let's not forget about Phoenix and Pittsburgh and Charlotte. They have overhaul as well. Remember we are an association of one with a JCBA coming to nail the coffin. Line stations may out number overhaul but what about UsAir line guys? They have their issues and the IAM will probably keep them hostage as well. You need to look at the big picture. Unfortunately Tulsa was led in the past to worry about Tulsa. The AFW and MCI threats are gone. Now you have Charlotte and Phoenix to be concerned about. Don't let the line stations get under your skin. The big threat may be the Association, other overhaul bases and the outsourcing. Peace brother.

I'm not saying Tulsa is blameless either we all know the "I got mine" crowd has done much damage to us all.  The IAM is just another cancer inflicted on us and will be a tough nut to crack.  Those guys are being held hostage by an underfunded pension and probably won't go along with a change.  That leaves LAA guys like you and me.  Lots of outsourcing will happen if the company get it's way.  Yes the TWU is pathetic for rubber stamping lousy deals over the years and looking out for dues income for them instead of quality of jobs for us.  I am old and bitter and pissed.  There are things that need to be done and the first is to send this association packing but we need to work together.  If all LAA will get together we can get rid of the association.  The only place that 1/3 of the numbers get 50% say is this association that allows it.  We need a plan and we need unity to make it happen.  After the association and the IAM and their ponzi pension plan is gone we can make big changes.  We have common enemies let's join forces and get rid of them.

Careful you two. when I point these things out I get hate messages, reds, and contempt.

 

[toroshark]

I'm not saying Tulsa is blameless either we all know the "I got mine" crowd has done much damage to us all.  The IAM is just another cancer inflicted on us and will be a tough nut to crack.  Those guys are being held hostage by an underfunded pension and probably won't go along with a change.  That leaves LAA guys like you and me.  Lots of outsourcing will happen if the company get it's way.  Yes the TWU is pathetic for rubber stamping lousy deals over the years and looking out for dues income for them instead of quality of jobs for us.  I am old and bitter and pissed.  There are things that need to be done and the first is to send this association packing but we need to work together.  If all LAA will get together we can get rid of the association.  The only place that 1/3 of the numbers get 50% say is this association that allows it.  We need a plan and we need unity to make it happen.  After the association and the IAM and their ponzi pension plan is gone we can make big changes.  We have common enemies let's join forces and get rid of them.

amen brother. My hope is that all AA amts can see this association scam for what it is.

 

[bigjets]

I was one of those seeking change.  There were more in Tulsa than me though and we tried our best.  We got lots of cards though but didn't get enough.  The line out numbers overhaul now so there shouldn't be a problem.  Doing phase checks on the line is a stupid idea that will prove itself in time to be just that.  But your earlier post only mentioned over haul being outsourced and seemed to take pleasure in it due to everything bad being Tulsa's fault.  Go ahead and continue the hate.  It is pointless to try to get you people to stop with the crap the company and union has used against us for years.  When my job is outsourced I'll deal with it.  But you line guys will have to deal with a bunch of O/H guys bumping into stations.  If we get bumping rights like the IAM guys have now it won't be LAX, ORD and JFK and I think you know that.  But you are safe where you are because of the lousy bumping rights we currently have.  So go ahead and hope for our demise.  I really hate the fact that I have "Brothers" like you out there who only think for themselves.  You have no right to call anyone in Tulsa out as you are a "Me" guy yourself as per your posts.  There are many of us in Tulsa that tried to make change happen but we are just scum to you because we are in Tulsa.  We are in the position of being last because of guys like you.  I hope ALL our jobs are safe but if not I hope I can choose where to go.  As far as you are concerned I am disgusted to have you in my craft.  We have lost this fight because of YOU and people like YOU.  I'm tired of trying to get you one way thinking hypocrites on the same side so you can have it.  When Tulsa is gone you'll have nobody to blame but your own hypocritical self.  That day is coming and obviously can't get here fast enough for you.  Line guys are the only ones who tried for change. By the way....  The line couldn't get 100% to sign cards did they?  But I guess we were supposed to get everyone in Tulsa to?  You're pathetic.

OH guys coming to the line is not a big deal for US. We are all responsible for our own work, we sign the logbooks, we don't have back checks for the majority of the work we do. OH guys don't slow us down as a majority of our assignments are done by yourself, but don't worry line guys always help the new guys, and won't let you compromise safety or your license, heck we will even CS with you so you can spend more time at home. If your talking about your seniority. It is what it is, but if your going to flaunt it in annoying way. Well then we will just let you twist in the wind.

 

[Buck]

 
 
I think the line stations will flourish with more head count and more stations (class ii ) to pick from. What did the Tulsa guys use to say, "If you don't like it, move to tulsa" now it's, "if you don't like it move to a line station" 
 
How many guys remember in 2012 when line guys were at the front gate of TULE saying vote NO on BK contract. Seeing the TULE mechs flipping off the line guys and driving home in their new F150s.  I find it funny how TULE is saying how we should all stick together and not saying I'll just use my roll call vote. Then there's the revisionist history of buck. 
 
I actually don't think Tulsa will lose out, there's too much 737, 757, 767 mod work and 737 OH's to do. 

Ok I was the only AMFA supporter Tulsa
 
I don't believe I said that the Line did not have supporters to change. I believe was saying was in the late 80's there were fewer line supporters than in the recent drives.
You seem to forget that there was a large number of Tulsa supporters. You speak of 2012 and I said the late 80's.I never said you were wrong, I just said when the drives start in the late 80's the Line was not as supportive they have been recent drives.
 
It is obvious that the Line out numbers Tulsa now, so start your drive Big Jets and I will sign another card. 

 

[1AA]

amen brother. My hope is that all AA amts can see this association scam for what it is.

We did and still do to this day. We are helpless to do anything about it. We have the NMB and unions including the afl-cio against us. Then throw in the knuckle heads who eat up the twu's crap. This profession is in serious trouble.

 

[conehead777]

now is the time that the line guys overhaul guys and the iam guys we need to stick together.both unions and company are going to try to divide us.and the company and unions will work to stop a Amfa drive. if we mechanics all stand up together we can beat the company and union. the company last time doctored up the list.dead people etc the twu did there divide the line and overhaul groups away from each other.but if we come together as a one workgroup there will be no dividing. and the union lies need to be put to bed .I got 32 years and most of us all are all in the same time frame.so we need to make this drive work.we need our holidays vacation pay. overtime pay double and a half on holiday like before. we need to get our double time back also. we need strong scope language .for the new and old airplanes.the pilots do it well they get the new airplanes in there contract. we need to do that allso. we can no longer let the twu/iam make our deccisons for us. they will do whats all good for them union dues. if we do not stick together we will lose another opportunity .seems since the interim pay raises I do not here to much on the holidays are vacation scope are any thing.we need every thing back we lost. to get it though we have to stand and fight together. maybe do like southwest flight attendants did picket the twu/iam International presidents. 

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

My opinion....."Wish in one hand, chit in the other. See which one gets filled first."
 
Remember, we belong to an association who's only interest is at the int'l level. $$$

 

[OldGuy@AA]

OH guys coming to the line is not a big deal for US. We are all responsible for our own work, we sign the logbooks, we don't have back checks for the majority of the work we do. OH guys don't slow us down as a majority of our assignments are done by yourself, but don't worry line guys always help the new guys, and won't let you compromise safety or your license, heck we will even CS with you so you can spend more time at home. If your talking about your seniority. It is what it is, but if your going to flaunt it in annoying way. Well then we will just let you twist in the wind.

OK Genius if you were there with the line guys at the front gate at Tulsa then you saw one Tulsa guy there when you showed up in the van.  That guy was me.  You're trying to make it sound like the line guys were there by themselves.  Also later on more Tulsa guys came out there too.  I'm sure Ken Mactiernan would remember me standing there.  Wanna ask him?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

now is the time that the line guys overhaul guys and the iam guys we need to stick together.both unions and company are going to try to divide us.and the company and unions will work to stop a Amfa drive. if we mechanics all stand up together we can beat the company and union. the company last time doctored up the list.dead people etc the twu did there divide the line and overhaul groups away from each other.but if we come together as a one workgroup there will be no dividing. and the union lies need to be put to bed .I got 32 years and most of us all are all in the same time frame.so we need to make this drive work.we need our holidays vacation pay. overtime pay double and a half on holiday like before. we need to get our double time back also. we need strong scope language .for the new and old airplanes.the pilots do it well they get the new airplanes in there contract. we need to do that allso. we can no longer let the twu/iam make our deccisons for us. they will do whats all good for them union dues. if we do not stick together we will lose another opportunity .seems since the interim pay raises I do not here to much on the holidays are vacation scope are any thing.we need every thing back we lost. to get it though we have to stand and fight together. maybe do like southwest flight attendants did picket the twu/iam International presidents. 

Bigjets is doing a good job of dividing us as usual.  If you can ever shut him and others like him (Dallasconehead) up then we might have a chance.

 

[Buck]

My recommendation to the Line is to take the Lead. The Line came very close to making the representation happen.
 
Now those of you on the Line that believe the Tulsa supporters for change had it easy  are just full yourselves.
 
Start your drive and bring your coalition to Tulsa to get cards. Good Lick.

 

[1AA]

My recommendation to the Line is to take the Lead. The Line came very close to making the representation happen.
 
Now those of you on the Line that believe the Tulsa supporters for change had it easy  are just full yourselves.
 
Start your drive and bring your coalition to Tulsa to get cards. Good Lick.

And then what happens if the IBT jumps in again playing interference? We have knuckleheads at every station and base that will believe them and sign their card. We all know what that outcome will be. Or better yet what if the IAM decides to have a card drive to rid themselves of the association? Then what?

 

[Buck]

And then what happens if the IBT jumps in again playing interference? We have knuckleheads at every station and base that will believe them and sign their card. We all know what that outcome will be. Or better yet what if the IAM decides to have a card drive to rid themselves of the association? Then what?

What happens is you come back on here and blame Tulsa
 
you are not willing to show Tulsa how to handle the TWU knuckleheads? 
 
How can the IAM have a card drive against itself? 
 
There have been some minor conversations where a card drive would by the TWU to break up the Association Love Fest.
 
The same result a drive against themselves.
 
You gave the impression that the Line stations were pure supporters of changing representation. While Tulsa was nothing but TWU supporters.
 
Now you speak of the possibility of the Line having supporters of the TWU and IAM? Yet not the Association. 

 

[1AA]

After the two year lockout the TWU is free have a card drive to rid itself of the association and IAM. The IAM can do the same. The IBT can start a card drive. The AMFA can start a card drive. You see how this will turn out? Theoretically there can be a 4 way card drive and we will have enough knucklheads sign everyone's card. Honestly I don't see another creditable card drive anytime soon. Too much division. You have TWU kool-aid drinkers, IAM kool-aid drinkers and AMFA haters. It's too late for all those crying wolf after all the drives we had. They didn't come onboard before and I don't see any unity for another drive. We are so divided. IAM, TWU, line, overhaul, my way, your way. You can add to the list.