June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fatherabraham]

So now, the west is being blamed for the pay disparity? Boy, did I miss a vote somewhere? USAPA is the one that decided to put DOH in its constitution. That pretty much guaranteed no pay parity and no contract. Actually, I take that back. The formation of USAPA guaranteed no contract, no pay parity, and the delayed, but eventual implementation of the NIC. I guess if you're going to be stupid, mind as well go full bore Darwin award stupid.

Bean

Bean,

I read all your post and have gathered your intelligent and reasonable.
Was above alcohol induced as every sentence was either very subjective or flat out wrong?
All seemed to be stated as fact except
1st two weak rhetorical questions.

FA

 

[Phoenix]

The east has paid at least $2.5 million each for 40 seats a year, captain and F/O. That is some valuable attrition boys.

You don't believe your own premise that there is nothing of value to fight about, otherwise you would not have initiated your law suit and you wouldn't brag about the victory you think will occur in a future re-attempt of the same law suit. Keep trying to tell everyone to capitulate. Lie if you have to, after all you have just proved you don't really believe "integrity matters" either.

 

[Phoenix]

Seriously! Do you have a learning disability?

How many times have been told? usapa has been the bargaining agent for the last 4 years. If you are going to blame someone for pay disparity blame the east. They are in charge and the majority. Why have they not gotten pay parity? It has nothing to do with the west.

You are correct, the company is responsible for deciding against paying equal pay, it has nothing to do with the West, that is why you should have kept yor mouth shut if you had nothing positive to say. But "integrity matters".

 

[Portly Dorman]

Well, I think thats called incentive to complete the contract in a timely fashion, don't give it all away on day one.

Of course after 5 years we have maybe 5 sections completed, an all inclusive offer that protect one thing, east seniority.

I thought because I come to work and safely transport paying pax for the NEW company I would get to share the benefits of aquiring new aircraft and routes. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Since the merger the CASM the allowed us to be competitive in the west has risen so the company vacated once former profitable routes. I've watched most of the new routes be handed off to CLT/PHL crews and the addition WBs and new hires added to former east bases.

Cry me a river on the pay issue. You seem to enjoy following those who gave your pension away and turned down a better contract because they knew better. All I can say is carry on.

And we make less than you do yet fly the same airplanes for the same company. Wheres the equity in that?

In westworld that's ok i guess.

We each have a trade off to accept in the "nothing but NIC" fight.

 

[Portly Dorman]

You are correct, the company is responsible for deciding against paying equal pay, it has nothing to do with the West, that is why you should have kept yor mouth shut if you had nothing positive to say. But "integrity matters".

You mean to say we could have we settled the pay parity issue with an agreement on a third party solution to senoirity?

Maybe pigs can fly....

 

[Pi brat]

Since the merger the CASM the allowed us to be competitive in the west has risen so the company vacated once former profitable routes. I've watched most of the new routes be handed off to CLT/PHL crews and the addition WBs and new hires added to former east bases.

Wrong again. Go listen to our CEO, you know the guys that came from AWA. He says the CASM for the west part of the operation has not grown that much ex-fuel. It was the rapid rise in fuel that made so much of your flying unprofitable. And remember, the east is still smaller than in 2005. You talk about the WBs, and that has helped, but look at how many 757s have been shifted to 737 and A320 and that flying shifted to E190.

 

[Metroyet]

So, its the last day of june....I thought that judge Silver indicated there would be a ruling out in june..? And while I'm on the subject of timeleness of rulings....where is Kashers formal ruling on LOA93 and or the 3%? and if he thought we already were recieving the 3%, isnt his supposed ruling of "No" to loa93 flawed....I mean regardless of which side a person is on here, you have to be impressed with the urgency of our legal system.....Pathetic..!!

Please. Go cry somewhere else. Everything you whine about was caused SOLELY by the East pilots and Lee $e$ham. You guys managed your new improved union as well as you've managed your careers. IOW, you Royally F'ed it up. Big surprise.

 

[Move2CLT]

You mean to say we could have we settled the pay parity issue with an agreement on a third party solution to senoirity?

Maybe pigs can fly....

Man, I was looking at your avatar - Borman is one fat m-f'er. I once watched him sweat while he was simply standing.

Shouldn't be long before his heart gives out.

 

[nic4us]

The fraudulent deception of another person; the intentional or malicious refusal to perform some duty or contractual obligation.​

One can make an honest mistake about one's own rights and duties, but when the rights of someone else are intentionally or maliciously infringed upon, such conduct demonstrates bad faith.​

Bad faith refers to dishonesty or fraud in a transaction, such as entering into an agreement with no intention of ever living up to its terms, ​

GOOD FAITH

Honestly and without deception. An agreement might be declared invalid if one of the parties entered with the intention of defrauded the other.​

The duty of each party to an agreement (and all officers, employees, or agents of each party) to act in a fair and equitable manner toward each other so as to guarantee each party freedom from coercion, intimidation, or threats of coercion or intimidation from the other.​

Okay all this talk of Good and Bad Faith has compelled me to offer this post.​

The glaring hole in the Seeham strategy...and that little scab lawyer knew this full well.....was that usapa would be formed on a principle of Bad Faith. Not only that, but usapa would fail its DFR to a full 1/3rd of the class it wished to represent. Nobody..repeat..NOBODY...not the company..not the APA...not the West pilot group...not the Federal Court system...NOBODY...has any duty or inclination to bargain with usapa whatsoever, because of this foundation of Bad Faith.​

The only leverage usapa has is its ability to be a nuisance with its Bad Faith legal filings and disingenuous arbitrations , which all get tossed because NOBODY gives a rats rear about claims made by a pseudo-union that has time and again proven itself incapable of acting in Good Faith.​

Now, whether or not the company is negotiating in Good Faith with usapa....ummm....the question would be, how can they? The company, by usapa's actions has been forced into a position of negotiating with an organization incapable of its own DFR or good faith bargaining....hence the company's filing the DJ case.​

 

[nic4us]

You are correct, the company is responsible for deciding against paying equal pay, it has nothing to do with the West, that is why you should have kept yor mouth shut if you had nothing positive to say. But "integrity matters".

Wrong....the east pilots have decided to keep separate pay. The company is merely obliging.

You are correct..."integrity matters".

 

[Move2CLT]

USAPA is just a laugh a minute. You put in a guy that overplays his hand, gets you enjoined, and then parked.

And now you have this pathetic display:

Recently US Airways President Scott Kirby said, “We’d like to come to terms with USAPA, but it’s not a requirement to get the deal done.” We disagree. First, USAPA recognizes that our involvement is critical to US Airways' chance of successfully controlling the POR, and we are ready to participate to ensure the success of that goal.

That's like USAPA asking a girl out, her saying no, and then USAPA disagreeing with her as she drives off. LMAO.

You guys have done what I've predicted you'd do all along - screw yourselves into a corner. Your history showed it was inevitable and it's come to pass. Kirby has marginalized you and you have rendered yourselves ineffective in your ability to push back.

Congrats you idiots.

 

[nic4us]

So, its the last day of june....I thought that judge Silver indicated there would be a ruling out in june..? And while I'm on the subject of timeleness of rulings....where is Kashers formal ruling on LOA93 and or the 3%? and if he thought we already were recieving the 3%, isnt his supposed ruling of "No" to loa93 flawed....I mean regardless of which side a person is on here, you have to be impressed with the urgency of our legal system.....Pathetic..!!

Kasher knows what usapa's intents were with their disingenuous LOA93 grievance. You had no snap backs, no 3% annual raises coming.

The first time usapa finds itself in a lawsuit where punitive damages can be awarded (say they tried to push the RICO into state court, where the defendants would have owned usapa using anti-slap laws), the fake union is toast.


In our case the urgency of our legal system is proportional to just how much anybody gives a shiit about a scab union, which is not so much. The only time usapa gets a timely decision is when the court can quickly dismiss their claim to get it off the courts otherwise busy schedule.

Silver will rule soon enough... After all, what is the hurry? usapa is parked, with an injunction against us, and any decision is just getting bumped up the ladder for more delay. Silver is doing usapa a favor sitting on the company DJ.


But, speaking of delay....where is my money for the TA-10 grievance the West pilots won......3 years ago?

 

[nic4us]

USAPA is just a laugh a minute. You put in a guy that overplays his hand, gets you enjoined, and then parked.

And now you have this pathetic display:

Recently US Airways President Scott Kirby said, "We'd like to come to terms with USAPA, but it's not a requirement to get the deal done." We disagree. First, USAPA recognizes that our involvement is critical to US Airways' chance of successfully controlling the POR, and we are ready to participate to ensure the success of that goal.

That's like USAPA asking a girl out, her saying no, and then USAPA disagreeing with her as she drives off. LMAO.

You guys have done what I've predicted you'd do all along - screw yourselves into a corner. Your history showed it was inevitable and it's come to pass. Kirby has marginalized you and you have rendered yourselves ineffective in your ability to push back.

Congrats you idiots.

"we disagree".....

My question would be.....who asked you scab?

 

[Metroyet]

[font=Times New Roman']Now, whether or not the company is negotiating in Good Faith with usapa....ummm....the question would be, how can they? The company, by usapa's actions has been forced into a position of negotiating with an organization incapable of its own DFR or good faith bargaining....hence the company's filing the DJ case.[/font]​

USAPA is the one the NMB parked. USAPA is the one who used an absurd "safety culture" stunt ending up in an Injunction. USAPA is the one that has completely failed it's membership over and over again all the while promising to deliver them to Victory. It's never going to happen. The founding Scabs were warned in no uncertain terms during their obligitory dog and pony show in PHX right before the election that they're plan was simply going to fail...and that there was simply no other option than failure.

So which group has demonstrated habitual bad faith? History speaks for itself. Everybody else gets it except the scabs.

 

[im back..!!]

Please. Go cry somewhere else. Everything you whine about was caused SOLELY by the East pilots and Lee $e$ham. You guys managed your new improved union as well as you've managed your careers. IOW, you Royally F'ed it up. Big surprise.

========================

Nobody's whining, ####......just looking for some ruling....I didnt F'up anything, I just want the courts to rule, even if its in your favor, idiot.....I just think something is wrong in Denmark.....(by the way, thats a saying and a city your probably not familiar with) I askd the question, I didnt point it at anybody, you see what I got, ....I rest my case as to the moronic idiots we have to deal with.....Pathetic