PlayTheOdds
Veteran
The IAM doesn't have any type of clause in their contract about doing struck work?
nwa strike
- Thread starter umech
- Start date
Come on now, that is just semantics. What happened to an injury to one is an injury to all? Your simply justifying another union not supporting amfa idiotic walk out, they were smart enough to read the writing on the walls or maybe they had the intelligence to understand we are all being globalized.
Semantics? Far from it. Having been at NWA and having seen the animosity that the mechanics decision to leave the IAM created, I never expected them to support our strike. They also don't need me to justify their actions. They made their decision, we made ours. I'm still perfectly happy with the one I made.
"Being globalized"? Is that what they're calling it these days? Talk about an exercise in semantics.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Are they doing the job because NWA told them to or did the IAM see the opportunity to steal some jobs from AMFA?
Also does the IAM have a clause in their contract about performing struck work or not?
Since the mechanics left the IAM, both unions have claimed the work. However, prior to the split, mechanics performed the work in mechanic-staffed stations and ESEs performed the work in non-staffed stations. On the day the strike started, several ESEs declined to do the work at stations where mechanics were on strike and were told by NWA management they would be terminated if they refused. So, despite the fact they had received no training on performing the job, they did it and grieved it.
I don't know, as I am not a member of the IAM. Perhaps you should ask them.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
This strike is indeed effectively over. I do not know why AMFA refuses to call it off. I would run a poll to see how a vote would turn out but there aren’t enough NWA people here to do anything with. I think AMFA should hold their own vote.
One of the AMFA Boys that crossed the picket line asked how the Rally went, its amazing how news travels. I told him it went very well, and then he asked what I thought about it. I told him that their goals are more than admirable but that they didn't have any means of achieving them. He stated that he asked what the plan was to get him back to work, he was told that he had to with hold his skills. He than stated that he has been with holding his skills and that has done no good and his job is being given away. He then asked what the back up plan was. Needless to say they didn't have one. This proud man then made what I am sure was a very difficult decision to cross the line to secure a good job so he can continue to support his family. You guys talk ethics and character, well I am here to tell you that this man has more ethics and character than any of you die-hards put together.
Why don't you guys ask AMFA to put it up for vote as to whether they should bring this fiasco to an end? Also lets keep this vote limited to the AMT's.
One of the AMFA Boys that crossed the picket line asked how the Rally went, its amazing how news travels. I told him it went very well, and then he asked what I thought about it. I told him that their goals are more than admirable but that they didn't have any means of achieving them. He stated that he asked what the plan was to get him back to work, he was told that he had to with hold his skills. He than stated that he has been with holding his skills and that has done no good and his job is being given away. He then asked what the back up plan was. Needless to say they didn't have one. This proud man then made what I am sure was a very difficult decision to cross the line to secure a good job so he can continue to support his family. You guys talk ethics and character, well I am here to tell you that this man has more ethics and character than any of you die-hards put together.
Why don't you guys ask AMFA to put it up for vote as to whether they should bring this fiasco to an end? Also lets keep this vote limited to the AMT's.
If AMFA takes a vote to end the strike,legally, I think it would have to include ALL AMFA members; even the cleaners and custodians. Even though I object to you and your scabbing, I agree with your statement that AMFA does not have the means to achieve it's goals. In my view, the have (and always have had) pi$$ poor leadership. Just compare the situation at NW to that of EAL. They both struck but at EAL, the IAM at the district level (Charlie Bryan), worked to have Lorenzo's managment team removed and replaced. They came close to finding a "white Knight" twice. One was with Carl Icahn; which means EAL would eventually have been a "Karabu" vicitm like TWA and the other was the Uberroth deal. At least at EAL, the IAM District was thinking outside the box and turning over every stone by seeking outside investors which gave us some hope. At NW, the AMFA leadership has done nothing of the sort. It is apparent that AMFA is totally lost, beaten, and demoralized. And I think that is why many of the strikers have crossed is because they have lost all confidence in the AMFA leadership.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
I agree with you one hundred percent but where does this leave the members. AMFA leadership should bring this to an end so the members can get on with their lives. If the leadership can't concede to defeat then it should leave it up to the members. At least let them have a say so. After all isn't AMFA the most, self-proclaimed, democratic union there is?
It is basically over for the NWA AMFA members. In my opinion, the AMFA leadership does not want to throw in the towel just yet because if they do, their credibility will fall even lower in the eyes of some of the AMTs at the other airlines. They want to see what happens with the other unions. If the other unions walk and NW disappears, AMFA won't look as bad as it would have if it throws in the towel BEFORE the possibility of the other unions shutting NW down. In fact, if the other unions shut it down and AMFA is legally still on strike, I'm sure they will claim some sort of victory; even though it was not their strike that shut NW down.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
That is a very good point, though there is a serious flaw with that scenario. A strike by the pilots and the F/A's will not shut NWA down. It might cripple them for a few days, a week at most but it will not shut them down. The pilots and F/A's will find themselves in the same situation as the AMT's.
Do you know how long it takes to train a pilot at an airline? It is time consuming and expensive. So much so that it appears that Delta isn't going to even try.When the F/As walked at AA, it had a tremendous affect on AA; and AA did go full speed ahead of training scabs. I know you will say that NW has trained some would be scab F/As, but how many was it? 1500? How many does NW currently have? 8,000 to 9,000? As far as ramp and agents go, it would take a long time to hire, get the appropriate airport badges and security checks done and train thousands at once. At AA on the ramp we have new classes with about 20 in a class. When they get on the ramp they are totally clueless. Imangine a couple of thousand clueless newhire ramp scabs. And for the agents, it would be the same. It takes a while to become proficient on the computer entries and ticketing procedures. NW would bleed to death before their totally new scab force is any where near capable.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Your points are very well taken but then again isn't that what everyone said about the AMT's. Also how many people are out there right now that are trained but out of a job due to lay-offs? How many cargo pilots are out there that once worked for the airlines and would come back no questions asked? Also there were rumors that NWA was training pilots in Mexico in the event of a strike. When NWA pushed for this AMFA strike I am sure they were prepared in the event of support for AMFA from the other unions. I am sure the other unions knew this and that is why you saw such little support. Before the other unions fly off the handle I suggest they do much more research than AMFA did. "A handful of Scabs with a few months training."
The reason they were easily able to replace the AMFA AMTs at NW is because NW over time reduced their AMT workforce from around 10,000 to about 4,500 long before the strike. They shut down ATL, then most of their shops and then at strike time what little was left they farmed out. All they intended to do was staff DTW and MSP; everything else was gone. As they reduced AMFA's numbers they were also reducing AMFA's own strength in numbers. So they trained some scabs like you to fill the needed positions.It was a given that the pilots were not going to honor their picket line in an effort to save their pensions. It was a given that the IAM would not honor their picket line because of the bad blood between the two organizations and AMFA's rhetoric regarding "the unskilled". The F/As were the only question and they had a vote and voted to not honor the AMFA picket line. It takes about six weeks to train a pilot at the airlines. And if these so called rumors you state about pilots being trained in Mexico are true, then they would need about 5,000 of them. How many mechanic scabs did they train before the strike? A few hundred? They would need to train about 5,000 pilots. That is a lot. They were able to pick off AMFA because it was isolated and the easiest and they planned it for a looong time.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
A few hundred? I am sorry but it was closer to 3,000 Scabs. Once again they were not trained but were simply sent through some Gen-Fam and logbook courses. You are quoting lies that AMFA spread. How much training does a 3 yr F/A have to go through that is on furlough? How much training does a Fed-Ex pilot have to go through with 15,000 hrs in a A300-600 to fly a A319/320? Does a pilot that is current in type aircraft have to go through any training at all?
I believe that when a pilot goes from one aircraft type to another in the same company (an AA pilot going from a super 80 to a 757) the training takes about six weeks. When a newhire comes in, I believe that in addition to training on the aircraft, that the new hire also has to be trained on company specific items. If I am in error on this, I hope that a pilot says so and gives the correct amount of training time. And for the rampers, in addition to the issue of hiring mass numbers; I would think that after a day or two working in the sub zero tempratures with gusty winds in DTW and MSP for $8/hr, that many will just not show up on subsequent days. Face it, if the others walk, NW is doomed.
