OK, here's the new pilots' labor thread --please observe the rules of the board and NO PERSONAL REMARKS ATTACKS OR INSULTS.
Thank you.
You are missing the point and I guess because you have not been in this type of situation yourself. I do not expect anyone to step aside for me, however I do not expect to step aside for anyone either. I was never furloughed and NIK locks me out of widbodies . Call me crazy but for some reason that seems totally unfair since US Air brought widbodies to the merger and AWE not a one. Its easy to say this all happen prior to AWE but they were headed for trouble if the merger did not happen. If I am correct the east pilots took huge paycuts to come out of BK. What did the west pilots do to deserve to fly the planes that my co workers and I brought to the merger. Just because NIK says so does not make it right.
Ah! It goes back to the old "I will never upgrade under Nicolau" argument.Ah, yes the ole 2:1 ratio argument...isn't there approximately twice as many east pilots as west?
So...how is this anything but a straight slot?
LAS PHX CMHThe rest is just lamenting about lost utopian dream of a future that may never have been a factual reality.
Seniority, seniority, seniority. Drives everything in this job. Vacation, line-holder (or not), equipment, pay.Personally I got into aviation to make money not stroke my ego. If a dash 8 paid enough money I would fly that.
So what is it going to be? Look at this logically and finally get paid or hold out for years so you can impress the boys in the crew room by saying you are a WB pilot?
If seniority is so all-important to the east, why did you (collectively) not proffer a workable compromise solution at the negotiation or mediation phase rather than going for DOH which had an extremely low probability of success? Nicolau told the East that DOH wasn’t going to happen in his award and that the East should modify their demand for DOH. Instead of acknowledging that DOH was a failed pursuit, the East left the final decision to a binding arbitration process and to an arbitrator with a penchant for using a ratio integration methodology. Not a very wise way to protect something considered to be of paramount importance. The time for discussing the merits of a combined seniority system passed about three years ago.Seniority, seniority, seniority. Drives everything in this job. Vacation, line-holder (or not), equipment, pay.
We're all here to make money...but we also know how temporary those hourly wage numbers can be.
Wanna talk about working for 45% less money next month? Lived through it. It's amazing how quickly the wages can be cut versus how long they take to be restored.
Bankruptcy taught a very valuable lesson: the most valuable contract item any pilot has is his seniority.
Have a nice day.
Your correct 3 years pass and where are we, actually what we see is EAST assets EAST slots and EAST growth , talk about PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, sorry don't see any WEST slots transactions or value, there is a workable solution C&Rs , ALPA process like ALPA, pension , policies gone,bad rubish, unlike WEST risk and stagnation, your correct, WEST stagnation is a problem as CLEAR TA-9 , an arbitrated situation years to come! MM!If seniority is so all-important to the east, why did you (collectively) not proffer a workable compromise solution at the negotiation or mediation phase rather than going for DOH which had an extremely low probability of success? Nicolau told the East that DOH wasn’t going to happen in his award and that the East should modify their demand for DOH. Instead of acknowledging that DOH was a failed pursuit, the East left the final decision to a binding arbitration process and to an arbitrator with a penchant for using a ratio integration methodology. Not a very wise way to protect something considered to be of paramount importance. The time for discussing the merits of a combined seniority system passed about three years ago.
So the greed of ALL of you have kept ALL of us from gaining anything? Let me get this straight your recent posts about USEAST LOA 93 for retirement is GREED! Man PHX law school is accepting APPS it would suit your needs! MM! That truly is the most laughable thing ever posted. That even tops "CONTRADICTION" in webster! To make money? And AWE was your CAREER CHOICE?Wide body, wide body, wide body. I am sick of listening to you guys whine about your wide bodies. You had 19 POS airplanes. They pay dirt bag wages. All of your pilots get paid nearly what your 76 pilot get paid.
Currently there are 268 captain and 443 F/O seats available. That is up from what you brought to the merger. So unless you were in the top 10% you were never going to fly as captain ever.
Captain AAA
330 $160.00
76 $144.00
320 $125
AWA 320 $142.00
F/O
330 $109
76 $98
32085
AWA F/O
320 94
If wide bodies were so important to you guys than you should have moved off of DOH/LOS and protected the WB. But you wanted it all.
Now if you guys would accept the Nicolau we could get a better contract. $160 an hour is standard for a narrow body. If you guys would have accepted Nicolau 3 years ago ALL your captains would have been making what your few WB captain are making. The F/O can expect $100.00- $110.0 per hour. So ALL of you F/O would be making what just a few of your WB F/Os are making. So the greed of ALL of you have kept ALL of us from gaining anything.
So what is it? It cant be the money because you would have accepted a contract and moved on. The only thing I can think of is it has to be ego. That somehow you think of WB pilots as better than everyone else. Personally I got into aviation to make money not stroke my ego. If a dash 8 paid enough money I would fly that.
So what is it going to be? Look at this logically and finally get paid or hold out for years so you can impress the boys in the crew room by saying you are a WB pilot?
Whats even funnier is you spent 2mill plus to make that point! So DOH with CRs is bad for a better contract why? Make your point before the laughter, is gets deafining! MM! Sounds like risk Mngmnt to me!So the greed of ALL of you have kept ALL of us from gaining anything? Let me get this straight your recent posts about USEAST LOA 93 for retirement is GREED! Man PHX law school is accepting APPS it would suit your needs! MM! That truly is the most laughable thing ever posted. That even tops "CONTRADICTION" in webster! To make money? And AWE was your CAREER CHOICE?
Now CRIZ c'mon your being selfish not accepting the NIC(80% would say NO, yes that includes some top 500, excluding N924PS)but hey that ROUGE union give me an"INTEGRITY MATTERS" T that was hilarious! MM!Wow, an pilot saying he got into this job to make money, BUT YET HE CHOSE THE LOWEST PAYING COMPANY that was out there, with the worst work rules.
Granted the West is a little better NOW after TWO concession agreements. Or wait, he was furloughed from his first choice after 9/11, and well AWA was basically the only one hiring for a small point in time, and he needed a job, so he bit the bullet and went.
Only 660 West f/o's huh??? And probably the majority of them are younger than 90% of the East f/o's. So that basically means, that eventually, AFTER the west guys take the movement created by the EAST retirements, the East f/o will upgrade, but will retire behind someone younger, who was hired 10 years after he was....
Yup...swell deal for an extra 10k a year.....NO thanks.....
Oh and, Uhmmm...how 'bout those that are slated to be in the top 10% for the last 10 yrs or so of our career??? Guess those positions should goto the '05 hire at AWA......Yup....sounds fair...