Why is the IAM not telling fleet what was offered

[Black Magic]

I know everyone is at the breaking point, but right now is a very serious time in the industry with consolidation. LCC is going to merge with another carrier and probably anounce it by the middle of the year. When all the legacy carriers merge up there is going to be huge $$$$ dollars in the industry, maybe even compared back to the glory days of deregulation. If you vote in some bum contract now which it will be "cost nuetral" we are going to be stuck with it for a long time. In my mind I can wait a couple more months to see what happens as far as mergers go.

 

[Tim Nelson]

This is where you and I differ tim, you keep saying screw transition , that in effect is also saying #### off to every west station and class two station … We are anxious to get this done .there’s no point in bluffing ,parker knows this , hell everyone knows this . When you write It almost seems like you think parker and this al hemming way are morons , that’s another point on which we differ …Our strength in PHX will continue to grow until this company offers a TA that will pass , this company knows that a TA that will pass needs to be somewhat like the last but with better job protections and either full holidays or sick days …this company may have won the COC but that doesn’t mean an unfair contract is going to be accepted , all we ask for is fairness and we will continue to PUSH you until you give us fairness . It’s just going to be a question of how many customers you want to screw over and how bad you want our public image to go down before you become reasonable . This is what WE are pushing for , not your 21 dollars an hour fantasy , need I remind you that we aren’t in traditional talks , need I further remind you that in the event of another merger we will be able to increase any gains we get from a TA …

We must have a TA NOW not 3 years from now!!! This is what we want , failure to provide it will be this companies undoing .

I pray that our union leaders and especially this company come to reasonability .

Certainly, Hemmingway and Parker are not morons, but neither are rampers.

I like the PHX push, keep things going out there and keep the videos coming. Don't buy into this 'not traditional bargainging stuff'. It's a manufactued mask that is meaningless. The IAM almost never take strike votes anyways, even when judges throw out contracts. It wasn't traditional bargaining either when Parker's boy gave up the store 3 times even after saying "The concession stand is closed".

Bargaining is bargaining and it is ALWAYS precipitated on both company and labor needs. In this case, both are in need so a reasonable solution should be found, provided respect and dignity are achieved. Do you really think Hemmingway would be back to the table if he didn't need some things?
Hemmingway doesn't have horns, don't blame him if he throws you scraps and you say thank you. We are in the middle of negotiations and what is said is said. When I say screw transition, I'm simply saying screw the scraps. I'm not saying screw a fair and equitable solution. I'm not saying anything other than screw what the company wants if it doesn't provide a equitable solution for the masses. Certainly the membership has already spoken on the $19 hr wages and the mandate has already been signed by the membership so Hemmingway should either wait till 2009 and stop wasting our time or come back with a fair solution. Until then, try to find more patience Freedom.

There's much money to be made in mergers, and as Wall Street has said numorous times, the company must settle its housekeeping matters first. To this end, it might have been good for labor that the company has stalled since now the company has put itself in a position to 'need' labor transitions.

At any rate, Respect and Dignity left town with the last TA, as 19 west stations were hurled under the bus. Further, you must recognize the 'whole' and not just the minority in these negotiations. The vast majority lies on the eastside and in the hubs. To find a solution, it isn't as easy as just taking care of Freedom's wage and slotting you into the east contract. It simply isn't going to happen no matter what RR or NG are telling you.
Everyone must be respected and to do that, it is vital that the network of solidarity be tight. Nobody is saying it is right that the 'second class' stations have neither the wage of the eastern hubs, or the benefits of the western counterparts but they understand solidarity and were willing to vote out the 'wage bait' in return for a TA that has respect and fairness in it.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[perserverance]

To explain it to those who don't completely understand about these nominations:

Example:

This Tuesday in Phl they will ask at the 1930 meeting for nominations for the
positions on thier Leadership Team, at that time someone will ask ''Any Nominations
for President and Directing Chair ?'' at that time someone may stand up and nominate
Delaney. Then they will ask'' anyone else?'' if no names are heard Delaney will get the
Phl nod to be thier nomination. If someone nominates Canale then there will be a vote
to see who will get the nod to be nominated from Phl. This goes down the line for every
position. At the completion of the Nominations and elections (if any) Phl will have thier
names to submit to the Internatinal for the Vote in June. This meeting allows each city
to nominate the people they feel can do the best in representing them in negotiations
and such.

I've been told that Phl will have a large turnout and the Canale Slate will not hold any
nominations. How sad and how far have the AGC's out of Phl fallen that they will not even
hold thier own city. They had way to long and produced way to little. I hope they saved some
of that $120,000 ++.


Thanks

 

[Tim Nelson]

I know everyone is at the breaking point, but right now is a very serious time in the industry with consolidation. LCC is going to merge with another carrier and probably anounce it by the middle of the year. When all the legacy carriers merge up there is going to be huge $$$$ dollars in the industry, maybe even compared back to the glory days of deregulation. If you vote in some bum contract now which it will be "cost nuetral" we are going to be stuck with it for a long time. In my mind I can wait a couple more months to see what happens as far as mergers go.

agreed. Let's let Hemmingway wait so we can have the industry come to us in the form of mergers. Both him and Parker's boy know this and are trying to find devilish schemes to 'hoodwink' fleet service that locks them in a contract for the next 10 years that doesn't rightly reflect current industry happenings. Bottom line, there is a VERY GOOD reason why the company wants to leave fleet service out of future profits, extend the bankruptcy contract till 2012, and wants to remove the COC language. Just because people work the ramp doesn't mean they are stupid. $21hr+, increased merger protections, no-layoff language, and other protections are needed. My bet is that even in the midst of mergers, Parker's boy didn't even put in for no-layoff protections, merger protections, etc because he doesn't give a rip about anything other than management.

Our resolve and solidarity is tighter than two coats of paint as we are bunkered down in this fight for justice....on the strength and mandate displayed through the last TA vote, and local elections, and District elections to follow. Fleet service has awaken from coast to coast and is 'restless'.
Signing on to what Al might term a 'cost neutral' contract is hideous and nonsensical. The longer we wait, the better the deal.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

To explain it to those who don't completely understand about these nominations:

Example:

This Tuesday in Phl they will ask at the 1930 meeting for nominations for the
positions on thier Leadership Team, at that time someone will ask ''Any Nominations
for President and Directing Chair ?'' at that time someone may stand up and nominate
Delaney. Then they will ask'' anyone else?'' if no names are heard Delaney will get the
Phl nod to be thier nomination. If someone nominates Canale then there will be a vote
to see who will get the nod to be nominated from Phl. This goes down the line for every
position. At the completion of the Nominations and elections (if any) Phl will have thier
names to submit to the Internatinal for the Vote in June. This meeting allows each city
to nominate the people they feel can do the best in representing them in negotiations
and such.

I've been told that Phl will have a large turnout and the Canale Slate will not hold any
nominations. How sad and how far have the AGC's out of Phl fallen that they will not even
hold thier own city. They had way to long and produced way to little. I hope they saved some
of that $120,000 ++.


Thanks

Boss Canale will not be able to get his nomination at his own local. In fact, last time he was there, they Bit## SL*** him and treated him like the manager he is. The interesting thing will be that someone will still nominate the Canale slate, and that person will not only nominate in vain but also be a marked man.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

Certainly, Hemmingway and Parker are not morons, but neither are rampers.

I like the PHX push, keep things going out there and keep the videos coming. Don't buy into this 'not traditional bargainging stuff'. It's a manufactued mask that is meaningless. The IAM almost never take strike votes anyways, even when judges throw out contracts. It wasn't traditional bargaining either when Parker's boy gave up the store 3 times even after saying "The concession stand is closed".

Bargaining is bargaining and it is ALWAYS precipitated on both company and labor needs. In this case, both are in need so a reasonable solution should be found, provided respect and dignity are achieved. Do you really think Hemmingway would be back to the table if he didn't need some things?
Hemmingway doesn't have horns, don't blame him if he throws you scraps and you say thank you. We are in the middle of negotiations and what is said is said. When I say screw transition, I'm simply saying screw the scraps. I'm not saying screw a fair and equitable solution. I'm not saying anything other than screw what the company wants if it doesn't provide a equitable solution for the masses. Certainly the membership has already spoken on the $19 hr wages and the mandate has already been signed by the membership so Hemmingway should either wait till 2009 and stop wasting our time or come back with a fair solution. Until then, try to find more patience Freedom.

There's much money to be made in mergers, and as Wall Street has said numorous times, the company must settle its housekeeping matters first. To this end, it might have been good for labor that the company has stalled since now the company has put itself in a position to 'need' labor transitions.

At any rate, Respect and Dignity left town with the last TA, as 19 west stations were hurled under the bus. Further, you must recognize the 'whole' and not just the minority in these negotiations. The vast majority lies on the eastside and in the hubs. To find a solution, it isn't as easy as just taking care of Freedom's wage and slotting you into the east contract. It simply isn't going to happen no matter what RR or NG are telling you.
Everyone must be respected and to do that, it is vital that the network of solidarity be tight. Nobody is saying it is right that the 'second class' stations have neither the wage of the eastern hubs, or the benefits of the western counterparts but they understand solidarity and were willing to vote out the 'wage bait' in return for a TA that has respect and fairness in it.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

To your first point about “non traditional bargaining “ your right , I don’t know why I mentioned that , I guess every now and then I get suckered by that line . It truly doesn’t matter to me what time it is , be it section 6 time or TA time , we’re going to push until we get respect , irregardless of whether it’s traditional or untraditional bargaining !


We were wrong to trade away the 19 stations , I realize that now , we must not make that same mistake again .

You are wrong about patience tim , VERY wrong …. We are no longer going to be patient , we have given this company and this union all the patience we had , that time is OVER!!!!! There will be no more patience!!!!!!! From now on there will be only ACTION , screw patience!!!!!!!!!!! There will be no waiting till 2011 , we here are very firm about that in the worst way .


You keep talking about respect and dignity tim , well at times it feels like you don’t respect us in the west , I’d like you to live under the TWU contract and feel our “pain†and I think you’d sing a different song real fast … but as we in the west realize that pointing fingers at each other and the east gets nothing done , we must twist this companies arm until they provide a reasonable and fair contract that can get voted in …. key word here REASONABLE , and that word also applies to our union as well …

I stand BEHIND my union , and if they tell me this company has jettisoned or caused talks to fail , I will believe their word and not the lies of this company . WE ARE STRONG WE ARE PROUD WE ARE UNION !!!!!!!!!!!!


We will fight our way to fairness !!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

To your first point about “non traditional bargaining “ your right , I don’t know why I mentioned that , I guess every now and then I get suckered by that line . It truly doesn’t matter to me what time it is , be it section 6 time or TA time , we’re going to push until we get respect , irregardless of whether it’s traditional or untraditional bargaining !


We were wrong to trade away the 19 stations , I realize that now , we must not make that same mistake again .

You are wrong about patience tim , VERY wrong …. We are no longer going to be patient , we have given this company and this union all the patience we had , that time is OVER!!!!! There will be no more patience!!!!!!! From now on there will be only ACTION , screw patience!!!!!!!!!!! There will be no waiting till 2011 , we here are very firm about that in the worst way .


You keep talking about respect and dignity tim , well at times it feels like you don’t respect us in the west , I’d like you to live under the TWU contract and feel our “pain†and I think you’d sing a different song real fast … but as we in the west realize that pointing fingers at each other and the east gets nothing done , we must twist this companies arm until they provide a reasonable and fair contract that can get voted in …. key word here REASONABLE , and that word also applies to our union as well …

I stand BEHIND my union , and if they tell me this company has jettisoned or caused talks to fail , I will believe their word and not the lies of this company . WE ARE STRONG WE ARE PROUD WE ARE UNION !!!!!!!!!!!!


We will fight our way to fairness !!!!!

Fair enough

regards,
Tim Nelson,
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

It is Hemenway, you dont even know the guys name who is the lead negotiator for the company?

 

[Tim Nelson]

It is Hemenway, you dont even know the guys name who is the lead negotiator for the company?

Oops, I guess I read "The Old Man and the Sea" too many times. So it's Hemenway as in Al, and not Hemingway as in Ernest?

I'm not a good speller so it's easier to just call him Al.

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[The Bagfather]

First let me be honest and state that I’m not too sure what these snap backs are that your talking about , but if their anything like the COC language which turned out to be toilet paper , I say give it back …

The 19.00 top out doesn’t bother me , it’s somewhat less than fair , HEY DOUG PARKER WE’D BE LAST IN WAGES IN THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY , I type that in bold because sometimes you have to remind him what’s fair ….

As for the 1 holiday , come on do better than that , I don’t give a snot about the 4 hours on your first sick day , the company can have it back , just return our holidays to us ….

Moving forward with any new contract JOB PROTECTION needs to be NUMBER ONE … I think if the union can secure winning job security and scope , then the 19.00 top out is fine … I know you guys are going to #### now about oh no how horrible that would be , but I’d trade wages for the job security of the field stations , not to mention it’s absolutely time to bring everyone up to the same wage , don’t forget this .

Freedom: Consider this: The difference in Cost of living in SAN vs PHX is 3 to 2 or
$45,000 to $30,000. The Company is playing this for all it worth. They know that
PHX has a different concept of the value of the dollar than the rest of us. They also
know that even adjusting for this PHX is way underpaid and hungery. They had to
raise the bottom pay to $9.00 Hr to Keep PHX running. But just to put it bluntly
for most of us $21.00/hr is not a fantasy.

Still none of this reasoning will probably change your heart, But I just want you to
know where I'm coming from.

Some People are going on and on about the stock price , and how wall street has a gun to parkers head , well I hate to break it to you my fellow rampers ,wall street barely cares about baggage handlers and I mean barely …. If we sign an agreement it’s not like the stock price is going to return to 60 dollars so lets be real here . A signed agreement will most likely result in a bump of a few dollars . The reason parker needs an agreement is multifold , first of all he needs to restore an air of clam to the labor relations in this company . … secondly he needs to increase the DOT stats , what the other reasons are I’m not sure …. And as for merging , unless there’s some article of law that prevents a company from continuing to grow because it’s baggage handlers don’t have a single labor agreement , you can expect parker to keep trying , with or WITHOUT us … but it would be easier WITH us ..

Right now the only leverage we have is the ONLY leverage we have ever had , and it’s not the stock price or the big boys on wall street . It’s the manner in which we do our jobs , if we run slow , the entire airline runs slow …. If we decide all bags must go to TUL , then all bags go to TUL … the power is in our hands , we have merely been hesitant to use it , but that’s wearing off ..



BOTH SIDES NEED TO RETURN TO THE TABLE AND GET SOMETHING DONE ….!!!!!!!! DO IT !!!!!!!! OR BOTH THIS COMPANY AND OUR UNION LEADERSHIP IS GOING TO LOSE BIGTIME .

 

[freedom]

Yes the cost of living reality , that’s a hard subject to tackle because it stretches from state to state , city to city . What are you guys in SAN topping out at with the cost of living adjustments that you have now ?

I see it like this , as long as your getting a raise with a new contract then it should still be all good .Don’t forget more mergers are around the corner , we can continue to tweak contracts as we work through them .

 

[Jester]

For once I find myself agreeing with Tim on a limited basis in terms of how Wall Street views the importance of a FS contract.

As I understand Bloch's ruling, it did not void the CIC language within the current CBA, but only as it was being used improperly through the multi-buyer context of a company in bankruptcy. So if there was a true "take over" by another company or leadership, the snapback clause would become the poison pill for which Parker said himself would have made the original US Airways deal financially impractical. This snapback would apply to more than FS too, so the total expense to a prospective buyer during a take over would sour the deal.

The CIC language would be a high priority to eliminate from any future TA for management, and it could be used as leverage and explain why management has returned to the table. That might mean there could be job protections built into a trade along with higher pay in exchange for the removal of CIC langauge.

When Parker made the deal for US Airways, he viewed the contracts with the various labor groups to be an asset as the pay scales were below industry averages, but after 3 years and only 2 years remaining that value has slowly eroded away. Now he also has the pressure to consolidate, but is facing the CIC issue once again and to be sure any potential suitor will view that snapback clause as a major liability.

So Speculates Jester.

 

[JoeDirt]

Speculation aside I think you are right on the money Jester this may be one of the reasons why they came back to the table. If so a merger partner may already be lined up if Parker can get rid of the CIC language.

 

[orioleman]

To explain it to those who don't completely understand about these nominations:

Example:

This Tuesday in Phl they will ask at the 1930 meeting for nominations for the
positions on thier Leadership Team, at that time someone will ask ''Any Nominations
for President and Directing Chair ?'' at that time someone may stand up and nominate
Delaney. Then they will ask'' anyone else?'' if no names are heard Delaney will get the
Phl nod to be thier nomination. If someone nominates Canale then there will be a vote
to see who will get the nod to be nominated from Phl. This goes down the line for every
position. At the completion of the Nominations and elections (if any) Phl will have thier
names to submit to the Internatinal for the Vote in June. This meeting allows each city
to nominate the people they feel can do the best in representing them in negotiations
and such.

I've been told that Phl will have a large turnout and the Canale Slate will not hold any
nominations. How sad and how far have the AGC's out of Phl fallen that they will not even
hold thier own city. They had way to long and produced way to little. I hope they saved some
of that $120,000 ++.


Thanks

Perv, Excellent job breaking it down...
so for all you guys when a shop steward reminds you of the union meeting and the importance of being apart of it
YOUR vote at these meetings count. IT's your right as a member of good standing to EXERCISE your right to vote.
thats one of the few things that BOSS CANALE can't take away from you.

Freedom heres a GREAT way to show your SOLIDARITY at the nominations meeting.. That will send a message to be heard around
the country..

 

[orioleman]

Tim,

After looking at the New Direction Ticket.. I really like what I see , A good balance across the board.. I know

some of the AGC's on the ticket and can assure the group that Al and company won't be B*tch Sl*pping any of them.