2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[cltrat]

How long you gonna try and use your one appearance at a picket as some sort of street cred? I'm happy you went, but everything you post undercuts what that picket stood for.

now that I think about it there was probably free food involved

 

[freedom]

What I don't get ,and please excuse me for making sense here

Where is the insulting company proposal ? Why have you not presented it to the membership for a vote and then a rejection ?

 

[700UW]

If all you have are insults when it comes time to debate this issue infront of the membership I fear the IAM will be run out of town .

You call me a coward ,I have good reason to be afraid ...what percentage of the membership came out for the last Pickett? Care to wager a guess ?

Coming out to an informational picket means nothing, how about walking a real picket line and standing up for yourself and your coworkers, oh wait, I am talking to the same guy who threw them under the bus and helped them to the streets.
 
And the only insult is your betrayal to the membership.
 
This is a company that has $10 billion in the bank and is the world's largest airline.
 
And the only insults is your lack of solidarity.
 
Piss you off?
 
You boasted about the raise you got in 2008 while your coworkers were shown the door.
 
You havent had a raise in over two years, PMUS want a raise, this is their first section 6 negotiations since 1999, they want a raise, they want job protection.
 
Go into management if you cant stand up for yourself and coworkers.
 
I guess you havent seen where the company told the NMB that they will not negotiate anymore.
 
The reason you havent seen it is that they havent agreed to anything.
 
Why would you vote on something that isnt agreed too?
 
The company hasnt presented their final offer yet, that will happen in the 30 day cooling off period.

 

[freedom]

Look we do have leverage ,I simply am unwilling to risk not only my job but those of the membership.

 

[700UW]

So you live in fear on your knees begging the Master for crumbs, how pathetic, you do realize your hurt the cause more than anything?
 
Coward, but wait a minute you threw your coworkers to the street in the 2008 agreement and boasted how you got the vote passed.
 

 
The Scab
by Jack London, (1876-1916)
 
 
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.

A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue.
 
Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.

No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with.
 
Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver.

Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army.
 
The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country.
 
A scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class.

Author --- Jack London (1876-1916)
 

 

[WeAAsles]

I've enjoyed reading this thread for quite some time now. First of all one notion though that should be fully dismissed is the idea of a STRIKE. It's just not going to happen period. The government no matter who is the POTUS is not going to allow a strike at the largest airline in the world. Even if it was only a piecemeal strike of a percentage of the workforce. The hit to the global economy that it would cause almost forbids the action. An act of Congress or a PEB to settle the issue would absolutely occur. And both the Company and Union know this full well. Tim is also far intellegent enough to know this as well.

What I've heard???? The company offered pay parity with us (AA Fleet) and that all other outstanding issues would be discussed within JCB talks? The Union has stated that this is not true. That they are low balling and also want a further weakening of SCOPE? Notice my use of question marks. If the company did offer parity it's a personal opinion that it's foolish not to take the offer at this moment and go into joint talks as a unified entity, IAM/TWU. In our contract we have the industry averaging in late 2015 that averages the 3 majors in pay. United $24.60, AA $23.48 and Delta possibly over $25.00. Those are significant improvements if we haven't come to a JCBA by then and shouldn't be ignored. 

Now if what I've heard the Union saying is true and the company wants a further weakening of SCOPE then absolutely a line in the sand should be drawn (See Tim we agree on something) We are now for maybe the first time since deregulation in a position of strength that gains can be made. The New AA and the industry is finally on firm financial footing and is projected to earn profits for many years to come. Just see the stocks performance and the analysts forecasts. Management wants this merger to move fast. They want the confidance of Wall Street that they can do it better than Delta and certainly United. Their pay package has to meet certain metrics for a payout and just like us they want that money. Those facts are where our strength lies and we need to take advantage of that with full confidance and intelligence. 

Now if any progress is being hindered by emotions because the management team did an end run around your work group and made an agreement with us to help them get AA, get over it. They used us and we used them to get what we both wanted. The deal just had nothing to do with you guys but now that it's done you can enjoy the benefits that can come along with it. Emotions are damaging and irrelevant and do not put money or meaningful gains in our pockets. All they do is make you look and feel like the Avatar I have up there in the corner. Our strength is only going to be fully realized when both Unions IAM/TWU put the past behind them and move forward together! Otherwise the company is just going to keep laughing at our division and do whatever they can to keep that going. It's up to US what we do next?

 

 

[freedom]

You bring up valid points wealse..I don't think the gov would allow a strike ..

 

[robbedagain]

what those flippin arse lazy donkeys did to you aa folks gives us more leverage   they also made it absolutely clear to the nmb they have absolutely no intentions on negogiating fair agreements with pmus while you aa folks made out like bandits..   now for 2.5 plus yrs with no raises  no contract improvements  I cannot help but to say this would be the absolute perfect time for the flippin lazy arse nmb to release both iam groups at once  begin the 30 day cooling off period  and if no contract by then  and no PEB intervention then out the flippin door goes the synergies that ole bag of bones dp promised the 6 digit analysts and shareholders.
 
screw mgmt.   enough is enough  

 

[cltrat]

I don't think the feds will allow a strike either but at least the unkown of it in a thirty day cool off hopefully will help .
 
robbed with all due respect saying the AA guys made out like bandits is a bit over the top,they aren't where they need to be either.
But I agree with you totally on us being disrespected and screwed over by the donkeys

 

[mike33]

Your right cltrat , I was SO wrong ...that's why we'he stoped debating the debt celining in congress and QE is now our countries economic guiding light ...

Because as everyone knows ,everything is fine and the recovery is underway ......said no one ever .....

ChockJock....go look freedom up and " ***** Slap"  the women will you. 

 

[robbedagain]

thanks rat.   I should have edited when I had the chance  my apologies to the aa folks..  

 

[mike33]

WeAAsle
 
  What you fail to mention is the Sec 6 strength and how we would have to give that up. I agree whole heartedly with many of your points but lets see where the release/NMB goes. I personally am not willing to just throw in the towel without our Reps getting back to us on what our options are. I know what they are but many don't. 
 
ROA?......The 2 days are expiring for feedback from our reps !!!

 

[Kev3188]

now that I think about it there was probably free food involved

 
Lol. Right?
 

Look we do have leverage ,I simply am unwilling to risk not only my job but those of the membership.

Your post contradicts itself.

If you are unwilling to use the leverage you have (if necessary), then you have none.

 

[700UW]

He is delusional Kevin, this is the same guy that was bragging how he helped pass the Transition Agreement that led to his coworkers being shown the door, just as long as he got his raise.
 
Now he is a coward, he needs to educate himself on labor history and see why unions are here and how people were killed, maimed and injured for the right be to be in a union and the right to collective bargaining.

 

[mike33]

 

 

Your post contradicts itself.

If you are unwilling to use the leverage you have (if necessary), then you have none.

 
 
Whiney one-percenter puts his foot in his mouth ....again