2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

Nelson,

Are you transferring to CLT from ORD?

 

[737823]

Nelson,

Are you transferring to CLT from ORD?

How is this germane to the thread? Tim speaks the truth, he isn't afraid to ask tough questions and hold the IAM leaders accountable. How many other members took their own time and expense to educate and inform the UA membership about the dire implications of the two agreements at a time when the AGCs were misleading the membership? Now the stations are beginning to close and people are getting downgraded to PT.

Josh

 

[charlie Brown]

prez  or cb  aside from the nmb having not set the schedule for talks  is there a possiblity that the elections that are going to be takin place going to delay talks further    if so that could be what may be the nmb  or worse yet  allen hemmoraghing hemmingway are waiting on 

What elections? You mean nominations for the intl? No, I don't think the NMB would take any consideration of that. I'm not sure what people expected? It's not to often I agree with Tim, but he is right when he states the IAM has always given in to AH. So why is he going to be Mr. Nice Guy and give us any agreement until he has to? He thinks the IAM and the fleet members will eventually fold and give in. Good news about it taking us this long now, is I believe time is now on our side, not the companies. Let them enjoy operating the two fleets separately. If they don't want to, they will eventually come around. I'm only one guy on the nc. But I believe our last offer should remain our last offer, and just tell them to call us when they are ready to get serious.

 

[cltrat]

+1 CB +1

 

[robbedagain]

to be honest cb   i did not even know about the elections til my union rep in my sta told me about it today.   but if what youre saying is true then it in my own opin should not have any issues   i sure hope youre right that time is on our side but for sure when the company wants that scs its going to be how bad do they want it and what will they do to get it   either give us the contract with the offer you presented or will they make things interesting or diffifcult  that what it sounds like it will come down to

 

[700UW]

Here is one for you Tim,

If you are against waiving time limits, all it does is move the grievance to the next step, so everything will end up in arbitration yet you complain the IAM and the company aren't scheduling any arbitration, so it will end up bottle necking everything and take even longer to get the case heard and an outcome.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Here is one for you Tim, If you are against waiving time limits, all it does is move the grievance to the next step, so everything will end up in arbitration yet you complain the IAM and the company aren't scheduling any arbitration, so it will end up bottle necking everything and take even longer to get the case heard and an outcome.

Right now things aren't working. Enforce the contract.  I didn't say arbitrate every grievance, I said either dissolve it or resolve it as it is suppose to happen. Doing nothing is not only a lack of enforcing but also a disservice. No reason why Robbedagain is being jerked around. Arbitrate it.  If you lose you lose, if you win you win.  But management wins when it is delayed as it shows our union leadership is soft.  We also shouldn't be afraid of spending money in arbitration. At any rate, arbitrating like 3 or 4 cases a year is truly a joke.  What are we paying AGC's for?  Honestly, what the hell are we paying AGC's for if all they do is attend local meetings and do a few hearings then push everything into the Bermuda triangle where things are never seen again?

 

[Tim Nelson]

What elections? You mean nominations for the intl? No, I don't think the NMB would take any consideration of that. I'm not sure what people expected? It's not to often I agree with Tim, but he is right when he states the IAM has always given in to AH. So why is he going to be Mr. Nice Guy and give us any agreement until he has to? He thinks the IAM and the fleet members will eventually fold and give in. Good news about it taking us this long now, is I believe time is now on our side, not the companies. Let them enjoy operating the two fleets separately. If they don't want to, they will eventually come around. I'm only one guy on the nc. But I believe our last offer should remain our last offer, and just tell them to call us when they are ready to get serious.

I also am amazed. I can't remember when me and you ever agreed over the past couple years. Two different cloths it seems.

 

[robbedagain]

Tim although I still have yet to hear regarding arb date and city I also took lit bit of time to pm one of the negotiaters to see if they can find out answers for me as well I also acknowledge they are busy too I do see ur points. It should be done but it needs to be done rightfully so but I just dont think it should take 4 plus 5 plus yrs just my 2 cents

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim although I still have yet to hear regarding arb date and city I also took lit bit of time to pm one of the negotiaters to see if they can find out answers for me as well I also acknowledge they are busy too I do see ur points. It should be done but it needs to be done rightfully so but I just dont think it should take 4 plus 5 plus yrs just my 2 cents

They aren't busy.  It's their job anyways.  Only 3 AGC's are in negotiations.  Besides, negotiations don't take as much time as you think for AGC's.  You are being jerked off but you dont' know it. 5 years is a jerking off bro.  I'd rather smack you in the face with the truth than kiss ya with a lie. You aren't the only one though.  When folks file a grievance with this bunch, it ends up in the Bermuda triangle MOST of the time.

 

[P. REZ]

I've been part of negotiations.  Just because I'm not on the negotiations committee doesn't mean that I haven't been a part of negotiations for either US AIRWAYS or United.  Why would you presume otherwise? You still think things are negotiated across from wooden tables?  The actual negotiation room is just the image of negotiations, true negotiations involves educating the army and building solidarity by keeping everyone informed and also keeping the NC and union leaders accountable. In fact, when we tell you don't bring no Bull S back, that's part of negotiations as well. 
 
No back seat driver here.  No Monday morning Quarterbacking going on either.  I'm out front and straight up.  I take bullets from the front and I know you don't have my back at all after you and your boys put out a Puss* official update about me on OUR webpage telling folks not to listen to me but to believe the officers who all were BSing United members and outright lying.  You guys don't have the stones to put me on the NC so don't speak for me otherwise. K?

Tim,
 
First, what? Are you saying that if you blog about negotiations you are negotiating? Dude, you can tell me, did you take one too many hits before posting this? Second, I respect that you are out in front taking heat and that you don't hide. Third, I have the stones to put you on the negotiating committee but not my call. Fourth, of course I don't have your back, do you have mine? 
 
P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
First, what? Are you saying that if you blog about negotiations you are negotiating? Dude, you can tell me, did you take one too many hits before posting this? Second, I respect that you are out in front taking heat and that you don't hide. Third, I have the stones to put you on the negotiating committee but not my call. Fourth, of course I don't have your back, do you have mine? 
 
P. Rez

No. Not hit on the head.
Do you actually think ANYTHING you may negotiate is the sole result of a room? If so, no wonder ah tells you guys to F off.
All the eork in negotiations happens outside that room. Plus the 9th inning, the nc gets off the field and has to yield to the closer, ie, the membership. The membership ratifies or rejects. That is part of negotiations as well. As bad as the united deal is, and it is bad, the members negotiated better wages by rejecting ta1. Remember, ta1 was what you guys negotiated and it topped out at $24 at the end of the contract. Ta2 was a result of the membership saying $24 wasnt good enuf so now their top out at the end of the ta is $26.22.
If you dont think the membership communications on here or facebook is not a part of the negotiation process then go ahead and throw some bs agreement with AH back at us and see if facebook blogging and other communication/education venues isnt a part. You guys are the vehicle we are riding. AH doesnt see you. He looks right through you (and me of course) and sees the collective strength of the membership. Hell yeah blogging and educaging the membership affects negotiations since there are 3 parties, ie, the labor rep (iam), the company, the membership.

But you already know this. CB was negotiating when he said on here that he has no intention of dropping demands in the current iam proposal, knowing that management reads these boards. I certainly liked his statement. Delaney also blogs on the official page and tries to manufacture a reality.
Negotiations never stops between all 3 entities.

 

[P. REZ]

No. Not hit on the head.
Do you actually think ANYTHING you may negotiate is the sole result of a room? If so, no wonder ah tells you guys to F off.
All the eork in negotiations happens outside that room. Plus the 9th inning, the nc gets off the field and has to yield to the closer, ie, the membership. The membership ratifies or rejects. That is part of negotiations as well. As bad as the united deal is, and it is bad, the members negotiated better wages by rejecting ta1. Remember, ta1 was what you guys negotiated and it topped out at $24 at the end of the contract. Ta2 was a result of the membership saying $24 wasnt good enuf so now their top out at the end of the ta is $26.22.
If you dont think the membership communications on here or facebook is not a part of the negotiation process then go ahead and throw some bs agreement with AH back at us and see if facebook blogging and other communication/education venues isnt a part. You guys are the vehicle we are riding. AH doesnt see you. He looks right through you (and me of course) and sees the collective strength of the membership. Hell yeah blogging and educaging the membership affects negotiations since there are 3 parties, ie, the labor rep (iam), the company, the membership.

But you already know this. CB was negotiating when he said on here that he has no intention of dropping demands in the current iam proposal, knowing that management reads these boards. I certainly liked his statement. Delaney also blogs on the official page and tries to manufacture a reality.
Negotiations never stops between all 3 entities.

Tim,
 
That was a different type of hit I was talking about. You truly like to spin don't you? I posted that I wished you had the chance to be on a negotiating committee so you could see how the process works up close and you turn it into something else. Being on a negotiating committee and communicating in a blog what a TA says isn't the same.  
 
P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
That was a different type of hit I was talking about. You truly like to spin don't you? I posted that I wished you had the chance to be on a negotiating committee so you could see how the process works up close and you turn it into something else. Being on a negotiating committee and communicating in a blog what a TA says isn't the same.  
 
P. Rez

Never said it was the same, brother.  But both are part of negotiations.  You got the toughest part for sure, i.e., it truly must be mind blowing sitting across from AH hearing him and the 'party of no' as you are sorta captive in talks.  IMO, it is, or should be refreshing for you guys to take weekly breaks and hear from members and have your ear to the membership instead of hearing AH's voice in round the clock negotiations.  That said, I believe the month long breaks that you guys have had from time to time in negotiations has a chance to allow you guys to breathe and gain or regain the memberships ear/wants/, etc.   IMO, as negotiations drag on,  I don't think it is ever healthy negotiating without breaks as management will constantly build a false reality that it can't afford a fair agreement.  Previous NC started believing management's crap, including the IAM INTL reps, their laptops and graphs, and the reagonomics lol, who just wanted the quickest point from A to B in getting a new contract.
 
At any rate, don't let AH torture you guys with Beethoven #9 like our young Alex in Clockwork Orange. Click Here

 

[ograc]

They aren't busy.  It's their job anyways.  Only 3 AGC's are in negotiations.  Besides, negotiations don't take as much time as you think for AGC's.  You are being jerked off but you dont' know it. 5 years is a jerking off bro.  I'd rather smack you in the face with the truth than kiss ya with a lie. You aren't the only one though.  When folks file a grievance with this bunch, it ends up in the Bermuda triangle MOST of the time.

As Grievance Chair in my station I can attest we have a case that has been awaiting arbitration for over three years. Grievant is owed substantial monetary remedial action. To date no arbitration hearing is scheduled. From what I have been told... only one AGC schedules and represents grievances for arbitration and he (FO) is a very busy man. So busy; he doesn't return phone calls to the grievant or the Committee Chairperson. This April will be four years and counting. With the union dues paid each month by our members; surely we can come up with better representation. How do you justify to a member, who has paid IAM union dues since 1999, this is the level of representation he or she can expect from their union? The DL nomination endorsement process and eventual elections allows the membership to seperate the chaff from the seed. Those who have put forth their best effort in representing the membership (the seed) should be elected: while those who have squandered their opportunity to represent the membership by being elected should be rejected.