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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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700UW said:
They cant replace the Flight Attendants, Customer Service, Ramp and M&R at the same time.
We all know the pilots wont honor a picket line, they never have at US and never will, heck they are fighting within themselves.
 
And I disagree, the more leverage you have the more pressure is put on the company.
 
We struck as M&R in 1992 and were ready to walk in October of 1999 if we had too.
absolutely right.  Plus, it's good for our members to see.  IMO, the letters of support will come from the Union INTL president himself and I think this is adding up to be a well played hand by Labor.  Give the AFLCIO points for making this happen as well.  AH got punked and may still not realize it.
 
Ok 700 I get where you're coming from but I very much doubt that any social media pages are where the Union leaders want to make their intentions known. Especially before an official release from the NMB if it happens. I'm sure that your leaders have been and are in constant touch with their counterparts and if or when the time comes will make an official statement so the News media and Wall street picks up on it to maximum effect.
 
UnitedWeStand said:
 
 
Let me clarify......
 
It has been said from the beginning that the '99 Agreement would be the starting point of negotiations. My statement is that if the endpoint of negotiations does not reach the '99 agreement, I have a problem with that.
The 6 talking points, (that are not on the district website as MF told people that asked him about where it could be had in print), did not exceed the '99 Agreement. 3 years of negotiating for that???
I hope we are being asked to strike for something that is worth it.  Gosh forbid we are being asked to strike for just a small bump in things.  I really don't know what the problem is and why the members can't see the Union proposal since the company has seen it.  If we are at an impasse then it's time we see it.  And I hope the NC doesn't sign a dopey TA that it approves that doesn't offer the 6 things that they say any new TA 'has to have'.  One thing can't be denied, there is a huge amount of leverage.
 
UnitedWeStand said:
 
 
Let me clarify......
 
It has been said from the beginning that the '99 Agreement would be the starting point of negotiations. My statement is that if the endpoint of negotiations does not reach the '99 agreement, I have a problem with that.
The 6 talking points, (that are not on the district website as MF told people that asked him about where it could be had in print), did not exceed the '99 Agreement. 3 years of negotiating for that???
Ok but sometimes it does get to the point where you are at "Impasse" and it has to go to the hands of the membership to chose the next direction. The negotiation process because of the RLA and NMB I agree is entirely too long but that is what we have to work with. 3 years of negotiating unfortunately is not unusual under the process. Amtrac took 7 years once remember.

And if you do have a "problem with that" as you say, you shouldn't necessarily blame your negotiators. The company is the one who ultimately issues the "Last Best Offer" not your Union.
 
rockit2 said:
I would love to see it, maybe you guy's should let it slip out now and fire up the troops and let them see what the world number 1 airline is offering. 
 
  I would love to see it also, but, i do realize that it won't happen till being released. That would would conceal the deal as a last best offer ! Kind of like a AH signature on it. Until that happens then ( The Release ) its still negotiable. Why would you want to know something that the company could say " we didn't say that " . I want to know the End Game with a release, then they couldn't back down and play stupid ( the company ).
 
mike33 said:
 
  I would love to see it also, but, i do realize that it won't happen till being released. That would would conceal the deal as a let best offer ! Kind of like a AH signature on it. Until that happens then ( The Release ) its still negotiable. Why would you want to know something that the company could say " we didn't say that " . I want to know the End Game with a release, then they couldn't back down and play stupid ( the company ).
Mike I don't think the company  "plays" stupid rather it comes naturally to them ..lol
 
Tim Nelson said:
I didn't choose to have anyone run against you, whether it was UA or US.  I had no idea what position you were even up for but I would have assumed AGC.   I keep telling you that I was asked to be on the ticket and I said 'yes'.  Yet you blame me for everything as if this is 'my ticket'.  Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that because the ticket is solid but what you continually to suggest about me is a mischaracterization.  But I understand that there is nothing else you can campaign on other than "Get Timmy".  
 
Again, there are no US AIRWAYS spots.   A person can vote for whoever they want.  No US AIRWAYS candidate is entitled, including me, so in theory there may be no US AIRWAYS members who win.  Who knows? 
 
Slates pick candidates, the members decide who wins. There supposedly will be a Guam "spot" next time. Maybe the US AIRWAYS guys on the board should have considered having a US AIRWAYS 'spot' and crafted a bylaw like they did for Guam.  That's a thought.
 
At any rate, good to hear that the union leaders won't be making choices for the membership, only recommendations.
Tim,
 
I have nothing to be ashamed of in my 15 months in office. I have made mistakes and will make more but I bust my ash for this membership. I am not running a me against you campaign. I think I have something more than get Timmy on my resume.
 
P. Rez       
 
P. REZ said:
Tim,
 
I have nothing to be ashamed of in my 15 months in office. I have made mistakes and will make more but I bust my ash for this membership. I am not running a me against you campaign. I think I have something more than get Timmy on my resume.
 
P. Rez
+1
Fair enuf brother
 
The latest from the IAM:
 
http://www.usaamerger.com/2014/02/20/machinists-union-prepares-for-fight-at-us-airways/
 

It is time for each and every IAM member at US Airways to step up and tell US Airways management that you will not accept second-class status. Tell your supervisor, tell Doug Parker and be sure to tell Al Hemenway, who sits at the table and insults you every time he insists you deserve less and should be down on your knees thanking him just for working at US Airways -
 
 

 
See more at: http://www.usaamerger.com/2014/02/20/machinists-union-prepares-for-fight-at-us-airways/#sthash.qAwiHxWt.dpuf
 
This is what the IAM's "Top Attorney" said, regarding cooling offs, at United. Did he lie to United or is the IAM jerking off US AIRWAYS members

CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO RATIFY A Contract:
If the members do not ratify the Tentative Agreement (TA), there is little if any likelihood that the Union would ever be able to exercise a right to strike, and a substantial possibility that Congress would eventually intervene and impose an agreement on United and the Union similar to the Tentative Agreement. The reality is, given the current concentration of passenger airline service- the consequence of mega-mergers, acquisitions and liquidations-- there is virtually no chance that the government will permit a Union to strike any carrier with as extensive a national transportation network as the one operated by United Airlines. United holds more than 20 percent of the entire domestic scheduled airline market. And the fact is, the government DOES have the ultimate authority to prevent a strike by the lAM.
If the members reject this TA, the parties will be thrown back into mediation. (see the attached flow chart showing the steps available in the RLA bargaining process). The National Mediation Board, for its part, will assume control over the process and determine the pace of continued negotiations and the point of final impasse or "release" from mediation. It can take indefinite time for the NMB to offer a release from the mediation process-- it could take months or years. Even when or if the parties are released, the NMB will then offer final and binding arbitration as a means to resolve the contract dispute. But arbitration is voluntary and the likely reaction by at least one party will be to reject that voluntary proffer.
Even if the NMB does eventually release the parties, self-help (strike or lock-out) would not likely follow. Under the Railway Labor Act, if a dispute "substantially threatens essential transportation" in any section of the country, the NMB must notify the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). That is very likely to happen, as it did in 2002 with the United mechanics, given the importance of the United franchise to the nation's passenger transportation system. The establishment of a PEB means the non-strike status quo remains in place while the PEB deliberates; United and the lAM will present their arguments as to what the terms of the CBA should be. Once the PEB makes recommendations on a new CBA, the parties can accept or reject them, and in theory under the terms of the RLA, if one party rejects the recommendations, there is an additional 30-day "cooling off" period after which the parties can resort to self-help. As a practical matter, however, the decision to accept or reject the recommendations of the PEB would not be substantially different than accepting or rejecting the original TA. The negotiating history, including the terms of the TA, are admissible as evidence before the PEB and, based on all prior experience, likely to form the foundation of the Board's recommendations.
The following is an analysis from Ira L. Gottleib, IAM District Lodge 141’s legal counsel and one of the country’s leading experts on the Railway Labor Act (RLA). Ira discusses in detail the likely outcome if the recently announced tentative contract is rejected by the membership. Please review Ira’s resume on the second page and the RLA bargaining flowchart on the last page.
Here is where the government's ultimate power to control labor relations in the transportation industry is likely to kick in. The Railway Labor Act, and Congress' general power to regulate interstate commerce, authorizes it to impose a resolution on the parties (note the box at the lower right of the flow chart). It has done so repeatedly in the railroad industry, and with the economy already on shaky ground, and Congress as a whole not favorable to labor and desirous of maintaining a fully- functioning airline industry, it can be expected to essentially legislate a CBA similar to what the PEB recommends, rather than allow a strike to occur. Based on railroad experience, the recommendations of the PEB would likely be Congressionally imposed by law. And the United States Supreme Court has upheld Congress' power to impose a non-negotiated solution to avoid disruption to interstate commerce. In short, because of the size of the company and its national scope of operations, it is most likely that Congress would not permit a strike, and may first threaten the parties with the imposition of a CBA, effective months or years after the current anticipated effective date of the TA. Thus, rejection of this TA is not likely to generate greater pressure on the Company to further improve its terms, since there is realistically no prospect of a strike.
Ira L. Gottlieb Bush Gottlieb Singer Lopez Kohanski Adelstein & Dickinson 500 North Central Avenue, Suite 800, Glendale, CA 91203
 
The reality is the company neither respects nor fears the IAM, and you guys can't keep trying the same tactics and hope for different results.

Josh
 
Josh,
I actually think it doesn't matter if the company respects us or not at this point.  I think the leverage is fairly strong and it's time that the IAM build earn some respect from management.  I think it's a good chance and I'd be incredibly disappointed if the IAM fizzled out once again.
 
Tim Nelson said:
This is what the IAM's "Top Attorney" said, regarding cooling offs, at United. Did he lie to United or is the IAM jerking off US AIRWAYS members

CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO RATIFY A Contract:
If the members do not ratify the Tentative Agreement (TA), there is little if any likelihood that the Union would ever be able to exercise a right to strike, and a substantial possibility that Congress would eventually intervene and impose an agreement on United and the Union similar to the Tentative Agreement. The reality is, given the current concentration of passenger airline service- the consequence of mega-mergers, acquisitions and liquidations-- there is virtually no chance that the government will permit a Union to strike any carrier with as extensive a national transportation network as the one operated by United Airlines. United holds more than 20 percent of the entire domestic scheduled airline market. And the fact is, the government DOES have the ultimate authority to prevent a strike by the lAM.
If the members reject this TA, the parties will be thrown back into mediation. (see the attached flow chart showing the steps available in the RLA bargaining process). The National Mediation Board, for its part, will assume control over the process and determine the pace of continued negotiations and the point of final impasse or "release" from mediation. It can take indefinite time for the NMB to offer a release from the mediation process-- it could take months or years. Even when or if the parties are released, the NMB will then offer final and binding arbitration as a means to resolve the contract dispute. But arbitration is voluntary and the likely reaction by at least one party will be to reject that voluntary proffer.
Even if the NMB does eventually release the parties, self-help (strike or lock-out) would not likely follow. Under the Railway Labor Act, if a dispute "substantially threatens essential transportation" in any section of the country, the NMB must notify the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). That is very likely to happen, as it did in 2002 with the United mechanics, given the importance of the United franchise to the nation's passenger transportation system. The establishment of a PEB means the non-strike status quo remains in place while the PEB deliberates; United and the lAM will present their arguments as to what the terms of the CBA should be. Once the PEB makes recommendations on a new CBA, the parties can accept or reject them, and in theory under the terms of the RLA, if one party rejects the recommendations, there is an additional 30-day "cooling off" period after which the parties can resort to self-help. As a practical matter, however, the decision to accept or reject the recommendations of the PEB would not be substantially different than accepting or rejecting the original TA. The negotiating history, including the terms of the TA, are admissible as evidence before the PEB and, based on all prior experience, likely to form the foundation of the Board's recommendations.
The following is an analysis from Ira L. Gottleib, IAM District Lodge 141’s legal counsel and one of the country’s leading experts on the Railway Labor Act (RLA). Ira discusses in detail the likely outcome if the recently announced tentative contract is rejected by the membership. Please review Ira’s resume on the second page and the RLA bargaining flowchart on the last page.
Here is where the government's ultimate power to control labor relations in the transportation industry is likely to kick in. The Railway Labor Act, and Congress' general power to regulate interstate commerce, authorizes it to impose a resolution on the parties (note the box at the lower right of the flow chart). It has done so repeatedly in the railroad industry, and with the economy already on shaky ground, and Congress as a whole not favorable to labor and desirous of maintaining a fully- functioning airline industry, it can be expected to essentially legislate a CBA similar to what the PEB recommends, rather than allow a strike to occur. Based on railroad experience, the recommendations of the PEB would likely be Congressionally imposed by law. And the United States Supreme Court has upheld Congress' power to impose a non-negotiated solution to avoid disruption to interstate commerce. In short, because of the size of the company and its national scope of operations, it is most likely that Congress would not permit a strike, and may first threaten the parties with the imposition of a CBA, effective months or years after the current anticipated effective date of the TA. Thus, rejection of this TA is not likely to generate greater pressure on the Company to further improve its terms, since there is realistically no prospect of a strike.
Ira L. Gottlieb Bush Gottlieb Singer Lopez Kohanski Adelstein & Dickinson 500 North Central Avenue, Suite 800, Glendale, CA 91203
OK-- Mr. Nelson,
 
I light of the contents of this post, specifically-- what would YOU do as the master of negotiations? How would you prevent Congressional intervention, and still FORCE the Company to offer you an industry leading agreement?
 
Please provide specifics as to how you and your team will change how the Company negotiates under the RLA, and how you will force the Government of the United States not to intervene if your demands are not met.
 
I sure you will have a bunch of spin about HAL and UAL... I’m not interested in them... just tell me how YOU and/or your team will handle these talks here at US, and walk away as a HERO for getting a better agreement than any human could, other than yourself.
 
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