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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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Tim Nelson said:
Josh,
I actually think it doesn't matter if the company respects us or not at this point.  I think the leverage is fairly strong and it's time that the IAM build earn some respect from management.  I think it's a good chance and I'd be incredibly disappointed if the IAM fizzled out once again.
Hopefully you guys have put up with a lot. As I said regarding UA if the current SCOPE was viable when these companies were nearly bankrupt your NCs need to hold the line to enhance and maintain what you have, not cave for meaningless wage increase or a few silly holidays. I feel like Delaney wanted to divide the membership by giving the hubs more pay and holidays knowing they would vote the deficient contract in and not care about the small stations. Pay raises are far easier to negotiate in the future, scope not as much. Without scope nothing you negotiate matters.

Josh
 
Tim Nelson said:
This is what the IAM's "Top Attorney" said, regarding cooling offs, at United. Did he lie to United or is the IAM jerking off US AIRWAYS members

CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO RATIFY A Contract:
If the members do not ratify the Tentative Agreement (TA), there is little if any likelihood that the Union would ever be able to exercise a right to strike, and a substantial possibility that Congress would eventually intervene and impose an agreement on United and the Union similar to the Tentative Agreement. The reality is, given the current concentration of passenger airline service- the consequence of mega-mergers, acquisitions and liquidations-- there is virtually no chance that the government will permit a Union to strike any carrier with as extensive a national transportation network as the one operated by United Airlines. United holds more than 20 percent of the entire domestic scheduled airline market. And the fact is, the government DOES have the ultimate authority to prevent a strike by the lAM.
If the members reject this TA, the parties will be thrown back into mediation. (see the attached flow chart showing the steps available in the RLA bargaining process). The National Mediation Board, for its part, will assume control over the process and determine the pace of continued negotiations and the point of final impasse or "release" from mediation. It can take indefinite time for the NMB to offer a release from the mediation process-- it could take months or years. Even when or if the parties are released, the NMB will then offer final and binding arbitration as a means to resolve the contract dispute. But arbitration is voluntary and the likely reaction by at least one party will be to reject that voluntary proffer.
Even if the NMB does eventually release the parties, self-help (strike or lock-out) would not likely follow. Under the Railway Labor Act, if a dispute "substantially threatens essential transportation" in any section of the country, the NMB must notify the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). That is very likely to happen, as it did in 2002 with the United mechanics, given the importance of the United franchise to the nation's passenger transportation system. The establishment of a PEB means the non-strike status quo remains in place while the PEB deliberates; United and the lAM will present their arguments as to what the terms of the CBA should be. Once the PEB makes recommendations on a new CBA, the parties can accept or reject them, and in theory under the terms of the RLA, if one party rejects the recommendations, there is an additional 30-day "cooling off" period after which the parties can resort to self-help. As a practical matter, however, the decision to accept or reject the recommendations of the PEB would not be substantially different than accepting or rejecting the original TA. The negotiating history, including the terms of the TA, are admissible as evidence before the PEB and, based on all prior experience, likely to form the foundation of the Board's recommendations.
The following is an analysis from Ira L. Gottleib, IAM District Lodge 141’s legal counsel and one of the country’s leading experts on the Railway Labor Act (RLA). Ira discusses in detail the likely outcome if the recently announced tentative contract is rejected by the membership. Please review Ira’s resume on the second page and the RLA bargaining flowchart on the last page.
Here is where the government's ultimate power to control labor relations in the transportation industry is likely to kick in. The Railway Labor Act, and Congress' general power to regulate interstate commerce, authorizes it to impose a resolution on the parties (note the box at the lower right of the flow chart). It has done so repeatedly in the railroad industry, and with the economy already on shaky ground, and Congress as a whole not favorable to labor and desirous of maintaining a fully- functioning airline industry, it can be expected to essentially legislate a CBA similar to what the PEB recommends, rather than allow a strike to occur. Based on railroad experience, the recommendations of the PEB would likely be Congressionally imposed by law. And the United States Supreme Court has upheld Congress' power to impose a non-negotiated solution to avoid disruption to interstate commerce. In short, because of the size of the company and its national scope of operations, it is most likely that Congress would not permit a strike, and may first threaten the parties with the imposition of a CBA, effective months or years after the current anticipated effective date of the TA. Thus, rejection of this TA is not likely to generate greater pressure on the Company to further improve its terms, since there is realistically no prospect of a strike.
Ira L. Gottlieb Bush Gottlieb Singer Lopez Kohanski Adelstein & Dickinson 500 North Central Avenue, Suite 800, Glendale, CA 91203
OK-- Mr. Nelson,
 
I light of the contents of this post, specifically what would YOU do as the master of negotiations? How would YOU prevent Congressional intervention, and still FORCE the Company to offer you an Industry Leading Agreement?
 
Please provide specifics as to how you and your team will change how the Company negotiates under the RLA, and how you will force the Government not to intervene with a PEB, or mediation if your demands are not met.
 
I’m sure you will have a bunch of spin about HAL and UAL... I’m not interested in them... just tell me how YOU will handle these talks, and walk away as a HERO for getting a better agreement than any human could, other than yourself.
 
roabilly said:
OK-- Mr. Nelson,
 
I light of the contents of this post, specifically-- what would YOU do as the master of negotiations? How would you prevent Congressional intervention, and still FORCE the Company to offer you an industry leading agreement?
 
Please provide specifics as to how you and your team will change how the Company negotiates under the RLA, and how you will force the Government of the United States not to intervene if your demands are not met.
 
I sure you will have a bunch of spin about HAL and UAL... I’m not interested in them... just tell me how YOU and/or your team will handle these talks here at US, and walk away as a HERO for getting a better agreement than any human could, other than yourself.
Actually, I'd follow the same course that the NC is presently on.  I don't believe congress will get involved since there is no casework ever for non licensed airport workers, so I think if we just stay the present course, that's what is needed.  I don't think the NMB will ever order a PEB for 6,000 rampers as you seem to indicate.  I don't believe the IAM actually agrees with you either.  Whatever the case, we will find out and go from there.
 
Tim Nelson said:
Actually, I'd follow the same course that the NC is presently on.  I don't believe congress will get involved since there is no casework ever for non licensed airport workers, so I think if we just stay the present course, that's what is needed.  I don't think the NMB will ever order a PEB for 6,000 rampers as you seem to indicate.  I don't believe the IAM actually agrees with you either.  Whatever the case, we will find out and go from there.
I never indicated that the scenario that was outlined is what WILL happen; my point was how YOU would prevent that scenario from playing out if YOU were at the helm!
 
My point is real simple... your entire political argument depends on everyone believing that your ideas, talents, and devotion can CHANGE all of this. You have managed to spin, and skip over the realities of what can be accomplished under RLA by any Collective Bargaining Group thus far...
 
So -- is it safe to say, that your explanation above is a confession that NOTHING would have played out any differently in these US section 6 talks had you been elected as 141 President?
 
There are many uncertainties regarding where our contract negotiations are headed in the future. Under the RLA; once a party is released, under Section 6 negotiations, there are still many outside factors and parties that can affect the direction toward a final CBA or a potential strike (the nuclear option). The way I see it ... we are at DEFCON 3 (increase in force readiness). Two levels away from DEFCON 1 (nuclear war is iminent). I use this comparison because I believe a strike is indeed the nuclear option for labor. One certainty is that the membership at US made it very clear to the NC what we must have in a section 6 agreement for it to have any chance of ratification. To this point the NC has held firm with AH and the company.It is why we find ourselves at DEFCON 3. No one person or leadership team, can change the parameters set forth by the RLA, by which CBAs are negotiated or implemented in the airline industry. I know the nominations for various DL 141 positions are in progress this month. I fully respect the democratic process, candor, debate and the forum of presenting differing viewpoints and agendas. However, I would hope that once the nominations are behind us, we can start to focus on what I know is a common goal. That is a fair and acceptable CBA. I would hope that all parties involved can set down the swords and focus on building solidarity for our common goal. We could be headed for the fight of our lives. A fight that will test the true solidarity of the group. A fight that will leave a lasting impact on the future of represented Fleet Service members at the "New American"
Lock and Load!      
 
ograc said:
There are many uncertainties regarding where our contract negotiations are headed in the future. Under the RLA; once a party is released, under Section 6 negotiations, there are still many outside factors and parties that can affect the direction toward a final CBA or a potential strike (the nuclear option). The way I see it ... we are at DEFCON 3 (increase in force readiness). Two levels away from DEFCON 1 (nuclear war is iminent). I use this comparison because I believe a strike is indeed the nuclear option for labor. One certainty is that the membership at US made it very clear to the NC what we must have in a section 6 agreement for it to have any chance of ratification. To this point the NC has held firm with AH and the company.It is why we find ourselves at DEFCON 3. No one person or leadership team, can change the parameters set forth by the RLA, by which CBAs are negotiated or implemented in the airline industry. I know the nominations for various DL 141 positions are in progress this month. I fully respect the democratic process, candor, debate and the forum of presenting differing viewpoints and agendas. However, I would hope that once the nominations are behind us, we can start to focus on what I know is a common goal. That is a fair and acceptable CBA. I would hope that all parties involved can set down the swords and focus on building solidarity for our common goal. We could be headed for the fight of our lives. A fight that will test the true solidarity of the group. A fight that will leave a lasting impact on the future of represented Fleet Service members at the "New American"
Lock and Load!      
True dat!
 
Light the coax!
 
roabilly said:
I never indicated that the scenario that was outlined is what WILL happen; my point was how YOU would prevent that scenario from playing out if YOU were at the helm!
 
My point is real simple... your entire political argument depends on everyone believing that your ideas, talents, and devotion can CHANGE all of this. You have managed to spin, and skip over the realities of what can be accomplished under RLA by any Collective Bargaining Group thus far...
 
So -- is it safe to say, that your explanation above is a confession that NOTHING would have played out any differently in these US section 6 talks had you been elected as 141 President?
I think things played out to get us to this point, of which I fully support. It's not for me to say about hypotheticals but I do like the position of where we are. You have no argument from me Roabily.
 
Seems as though my 2014 New Year Resolutions are coming true at IAMATWU LCC/AAL . AF  Brothers/Sisters the time has come for ALL ! Unionists  to stand in SOLIDARITY and fight this Inc. AAL/DP. Or surrender and KNEEL/BOW  to our INC. MASTER's. Light the torches and prepare the tar/feathers .
 
Tim Nelson said:
Josh,
I actually think it doesn't matter if the company respects us or not at this point.  I think the leverage is fairly strong and it's time that the IAM build earn some respect from management.  I think it's a good chance and I'd be incredibly disappointed if the IAM fizzled out once again.
 
 
So you state that you believe it is a time of great leverage and hope the IAM doesn't fizzle out?
 
That seems like a pretty good position for you to be in. On the one hand, you can talk tough and make it seem there is a great chance to make positive noise because of a perceived and non-existent leverage. (there has been ongoing negotiations in the airline industry for a decade with no large airline even coming close to being released) At the same time, when nothing happens you're not to blame for being wrong because it was the IAM that "fizzled" out.
 
The smoke is not thick enough on that one, Tim. Regroup and try something else.
 
NYer said:
 
 
So you state that you believe it is a time of great leverage and hope the IAM doesn't fizzle out?
 
That seems like a pretty good position for you to be in. On the one hand, you can talk tough and make it seem there is a great chance to make positive noise because of a perceived and non-existent leverage. (there has been ongoing negotiations in the airline industry for a decade with no large airline even coming close to being released) At the same time, when nothing happens you're not to blame for being wrong because it was the IAM that "fizzled" out.
 
The smoke is not thick enough on that one, Tim. Regroup and try something else.
I will assure you, if something were to transpire regarding a PEB intervention, or Congressional involvement that resulted in anything even close to the Company’s last offer-- Mr. Nelson will happily hang that albatross around the IAM’s neck!
 
He would then use the whole incident as political campaign backdrop, proclaiming the IAM is corrupt and weak, and that he can “fix” it!  Mr. Nelson has made a career of blaming the Unions and their Leadership for every perceived “less than adequate” contract for decades!
 
As you said, we are ALL watching this play-out in real time. There is nothing left to do in terms of negotiating anything; we are awaiting release by a Government entity. We will have no leverage unless we are granted this release, and allowed to follow self-help criteria under the RLA
 
Now... everyone can see for themselves... right here... right now... that it boils down to years of negotiations, the resolve of the Membership, and the actions of a legal system controlled by the United States Government... not the Union Leadership!
 
The argument that any one person can be elected into an official position within the IAM, and change this whole system... is being intellectually dishonest for his/her own personal gain!
 
NYer said:
 
 
So you state that you believe it is a time of great leverage and hope the IAM doesn't fizzle out?
 
"That seems like a pretty good position for you (Nelson) to be in. On the one hand, you can talk tough and make it seem there is a great chance to make positive noise because of a perceived and non-existent leverage. (there has been ongoing negotiations in the airline industry for a decade with no large airline even coming close to being released) At the same time, when nothing happens you're not to blame for being wrong because it was the IAM that "fizzled" out."
 
The smoke is not thick enough on that one, Tim. Regroup and try something else.
I will assure you, if something were to transpire regarding a PEB intervention, or Congressional involvement that resulted in anything even close to the Company’s last offer-- Mr. Nelson will happily hang that albatross around the IAM’s neck!
 
He would then use the whole incident as political campaign backdrop, proclaiming the IAM is corrupt and weak, and that he can “fix” it!  Mr. Nelson has made a career of blaming the Unions and their Leadership for every perceived “less than adequate” contract for decades!
 
As you said, we are ALL watching this play-out in real time. There is nothing left to do in terms of negotiating anything; we are awaiting release by a Government entity. We will have no leverage unless we are granted this release, and allowed to follow self-help criteria under the RLA.
 
Now... everyone can see for themselves... right here... right now... that it boils down to years of negotiations, the resolve of the Membership, and the actions of a legal system controlled by the United States Government... not the Union Leadership!
 
The argument that any one person can be elected into an official position within the IAM, and change this whole system... is being intellectually dishonest for his/her own personal gain!
 
Nelson must not hold the  exclusive patent on intellectual dishonesty given the actions I've seen over the last few months, Klemm in particular comes to mind.
 
roabilly said:
I will assure you, if something were to transpire regarding a PEB intervention, or Congressional involvement that resulted in anything even close to the Company’s last offer-- Mr. Nelson will happily hang that albatross around the IAM’s neck!
 
He would then use the whole incident as political campaign backdrop, proclaiming the IAM is corrupt and weak, and that he can “fix” it!  Mr. Nelson has made a career of blaming the Unions and their Leadership for every perceived “less than adequate” contract for decades!
 
As you said, we are ALL watching this play-out in real time. There is nothing left to do in terms of negotiating anything; we are awaiting release by a Government entity. We will have no leverage unless we are granted this release, and allowed to follow self-help criteria under the RLA.
 
Now... everyone can see for themselves... right here... right now... that it boils down to years of negotiations, the resolve of the Membership, and the actions of a legal system controlled by the United States Government... not the Union Leadership!
 
The argument that any one person can be elected into an official position within the IAM, and change this whole system... is being intellectually dishonest for his/her own personal gain!
CLT WLL WALK
IF RLESED WE
WANT 142 2
WALK WTH US
 
Amazing how management wants to take care of everyone else except it's sUS employees.  Totally incredible that they are handing out pay raises to even its contracted help and improved overtime and holidays but have shunned our negotiation committee.  I think our negotiation team, and the IAM141.org website should broadcast this.  IMO, it's totally offensive that the sUS employees are backed into a corner and may have to go out on strike, while at the same time, management tosses money and benefits to contract help.  WTF?
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2014/02/american-airlines-agrees-to-pay-raise-for-low-wage-contract-workers-jetblue-he
 
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