2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

 
 
So you state that you believe it is a time of great leverage and hope the IAM doesn't fizzle out?
 
That seems like a pretty good position for you to be in. On the one hand, you can talk tough and make it seem there is a great chance to make positive noise because of a perceived and non-existent leverage. (there has been ongoing negotiations in the airline industry for a decade with no large airline even coming close to being released) At the same time, when nothing happens you're not to blame for being wrong because it was the IAM that "fizzled" out.
 
The smoke is not thick enough on that one, Tim. Regroup and try something else.

The leverage can't be denied and it is the direct result of the solidarity and support that the TWU has offered.  I am cautiously optimistic but, in this business it is all about finishing. 

 

[robbedagain]

tim  that's exactly why I have absolutely no respect for those flippin arse donkeys..    and  I don't give a flippin fruit loop if the planes go out on time..
 
enough is enough
 
contracts now  
 
f..k those donkeys and the on time performance

 

[WeAAsles]

Amazing how management wants to take care of everyone else except it's sUS employees.  Totally incredible that they are handing out pay raises to even its contracted help and improved overtime and holidays but have shunned our negotiation committee.  I think our negotiation team, and the IAM141.org website should broadcast this.  IMO, it's totally offensive that the sUS employees are backed into a corner and may have to go out on strike, while at the same time, management tosses money and benefits to contract help.  WTF?
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2014/02/american-airlines-agrees-to-pay-raise-for-low-wage-contract-workers-jetblue-he

Tim this comment is absolutely shameful on your part. Are you really going to try and compare barely above minimum wage, part time, no benefit worker to us? Contract workers or not these are human beings who are being taken extreme advantage of. To try to politicize this piece of news for either your own ambitions or to attempt to illicit a response of outrage is frankly disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I will assure you, if something were to transpire regarding a PEB intervention, or Congressional involvement that resulted in anything even close to the Company’s last offer-- Mr. Nelson will happily hang that albatross around the IAM’s neck!
 
He would then use the whole incident as political campaign backdrop, proclaiming the IAM is corrupt and weak, and that he can “fix” it!  Mr. Nelson has made a career of blaming the Unions and their Leadership for every perceived “less than adequate” contract for decades!
 
As you said, we are ALL watching this play-out in real time. There is nothing left to do in terms of negotiating anything; we are awaiting release by a Government entity. We will have no leverage unless we are granted this release, and allowed to follow self-help criteria under the RLA
 
Now... everyone can see for themselves... right here... right now... that it boils down to years of negotiations, the resolve of the Membership, and the actions of a legal system controlled by the United States Government... not the Union Leadership!
 
The argument that any one person can be elected into an official position within the IAM, and change this whole system... is being intellectually dishonest for his/her own personal gain!

Nice fairy tale you presented and pinned on me.  The reason for change is that we have already seen the current IAM141 eboard endorse an anti union contract at United that set back the craft 60 years.  And did so with lies.  You may be able to vote for such individuals but I don't believe the majority can.  Time will tell.
 
Look, I have no problem with your "Get Timmy"  and "Blame Timmy" for everything campaign, but I simply ask for a second time that you refrain from sounding like a Republican and saying that there will be no leverage if a release isnt' granted.  That's utter nonsense and the exact sorta thing that AH would be happy to hear.   While a release would increase leverage,  it does serious harm to justice to say we have no leverage if one isn't granted.  Actually, in this situation, time and the merger gives us special leverage as well, even without a release.    Also, to suggest that the union leadership has no responsibility or accountability is absurd.

 

[NYer]

Amazing how management wants to take care of everyone else except it's sUS employees.  Totally incredible that they are handing out pay raises to even its contracted help and improved overtime and holidays but have shunned our negotiation committee.  I think our negotiation team, and the IAM141.org website should broadcast this.  IMO, it's totally offensive that the sUS employees are backed into a corner and may have to go out on strike, while at the same time, management tosses money and benefits to contract help.  WTF?
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2014/02/american-airlines-agrees-to-pay-raise-for-low-wage-contract-workers-jetblue-he

 
I guess you haven't kept up with this issue. It is exactly how workers used to receive their leverage. That raise they're getting is not out of the kindness of their hearts but to appease the request by the Governor of the State of NY and the Director of the NY/NJ Port Authority in which the airline has a huge investment in trying to make a centerpiece of their business.
 
The contract workers in the NY airports have leverage in that their government is making an issue of getting those workers a raise to $10.10 an hour and by not abiding by the wishes of those governmental requests could leave the airline at a competitive disadvantage.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim this comment is absolutely shameful on your part. Are you really going to try and compare barely above minimum wage, part time, no benefit worker to us? Contract workers or not these are human beings who are being taken extreme advantage of. To try to politicize this piece of news for either your own ambitions or to attempt to illicit a response of outrage is frankly disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Management should be ashamed.  
Management addresses the State of New York after a couple letters from the Governor that ask management to pay the contract workers more and give them better benefits, but management doesn't want to be fair to its own sUS employees.  Honestly, this is getting old old old!

 

[roabilly]

Tim this comment is absolutely shameful on your part. Are you really going to try and compare barely above minimum wage, part time, no benefit worker to us? Contract workers or not these are human beings who are being taken extreme advantage of. To try to politicize this piece of news for either your own ambitions or to attempt to illicit a response of outrage is frankly disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

What Tim failed to mention is this...
 
This behavior by the new AA is to be expected... they know that these Contract Workers are prime fodder for Unions such as the IAM for organizational efforts. This is a tried, and proven countermeasure to keep these groups from organizing, and becoming represented.
 
It’s not that they actually “care” about these contract workers, it’s that they want to pay them just enough to keep them Non-Union!
 
Ultimately, this pays-off for them by keeping the overall Membership numbers LOWER!

 

[roabilly]

Nice fairy tale you presented and pinned on me.  The reason for change is that we have already seen the current IAM141 eboard endorse an anti union contract at United that set back the craft 60 years.  And did so with lies.  You may be able to vote for such individuals but I don't believe the majority can.  Time will tell.
 
Look, I have no problem with your "Get Timmy"  and "Blame Timmy" for everything campaign, but I simply ask for a second time that you refrain from sounding like a Republican and saying that there will be no leverage if a release isnt' granted.  That's utter nonsense and the exact sorta thing that AH would be happy to hear.   While a release would increase leverage,  it does serious harm to justice to say we have no leverage if one isn't granted.  Actually, in this situation, time and the merger gives us special leverage as well, even without a release.    Also, to suggest that the union leadership has no responsibility or accountability is absurd.

 
There is no “Blame Timmy” intent... I’m simply attempting to keep you from suggesting that you could change this whole process.
 
As far as your suggestion that my position is corporate and/or republican influenced, let me clarify my position on “leverage” for you, and all the readers...
 
The LEVERAGE we have will probably not come from self-help... it will come from the Company’s need to consummate the merged entities to fully realize the synergies from the combined carriers! It’s about their ability to make as much money as possible! It would be difficult to explain to the shareholders why they would not seek that goal!
 
So... let me say this once again... NO Section 6 Agreement = No Single Carrier Status!
 
That is my official position!

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
There is no “Blame Timmy” intent... I’m simply attempting to keep you from suggesting that you could change this whole process.
 
As far as your suggestion that my position is corporate and/or republican influenced, let me clarify my position on “leverage” for you, and all the readers...
 
The LEVERAGE we have will probably not come from self-help... it will come from the Company’s need to consummate the merged entities to fully realize the synergies from the combined carriers! It’s about their ability to make as much money as possible! It would be difficult to explain to the shareholders why they would not seek that goal!
 
So... let me say this once again... NO Section 6 Agreement = No Single Carrier Status!
 
That is my official position!

+1
Clarification noted

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree with your comment Roabilly but at the same time it seems like most of Tim's thinking is done inside of a box outlook. Your example fits to a tee the reason why SOME at Delta make what they do. Give the workers just enough to maintain control.

What Tim doesn't seem to understand is cost effectiveness. If airlines are forced to pay these people a better wage eventually it may no longer be cost effective to hire their companies and that work can be brought back into the fold? Take the $15 minimum wage at SEATAC for example. If every airport were to adopt a minimum such as that comparing the overhead associated with both paying the worker and the contracted company expecting a profit, that work could very easily shift back to us inhouse.

Tim's comments don't take into account thoughts like this because at least in my opinion they don't serve his agenda. And yes Tim get's accused of having an agenda a lot but it's because it comes from his own words in the things he posts. It seems he has no compass to guide his ship?

 

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
I guess you haven't kept up with this issue. It is exactly how workers used to receive their leverage. That raise they're getting is not out of the kindness of their hearts but to appease the request by the Governor of the State of NY and the Director of the NY/NJ Port Authority in which the airline has a huge investment in trying to make a centerpiece of their business.
 
The contract workers in the NY airports have leverage in that their government is making an issue of getting those workers a raise to $10.10 an hour and by not abiding by the wishes of those governmental requests could leave the airline at a competitive disadvantage.

Oh no, I understand the issue, but the entire scope of the issue doesn't just involve contract workers, and the entire scope of the issue has not been addressed at all with management's own employees. As one of your own TWU members said, "AA is becoming like the US government. Aid for foreign lands while it's own people starve."

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh no, I understand the issue, but the entire scope of the issue doesn't just involve contract workers, and the entire scope of the issue has not been addressed at all with management's own employees. As one of your own TWU members said, "AA is becoming like the US government. Aid for foreign lands while it's own people starve."

Emotional pablum meant to illicit a reaction. Too many self professed leaders seem to like to utilize this tactic to acheive their own personal goals. I hope that you're membership is smarter than that and can see it for what it really is?

 

[roabilly]

Emotional pablum meant to illicit a reaction. Too many self professed leaders seem to like to utilize this tactic to acheive their own personal goals. I hope that you're membership is smarter than that and can see it for what it really is?

WOW... I've been saying this for years in this forum... now there is an outside TWU member that see's it too!
 
A "self professed leader" is not a leader of people, but of himself!

 

[AANOTOK]

Question WeAAsles,
 
Why do you no longer post in the AA forum...you know, where the M&R despise the TWU.
I do remember you posting their many moons ago under your old avatar. Just curious.

 

[WeAAsles]

Question WeAAsles,
 
Why do you no longer post in the AA forum...you know, where the M&R despise the TWU.
I do remember you posting their many moons ago under your old avatar. Just curious.

Actually AANOTOC I really don't see anything over there that interests me at the moment if you want the truth. I used to post here in this forum until I was put on time out for questioning one of the moderators. Their page, their right of course. After that I went on to other avenues of interest but I always glanced over here from time to time. After reading this particular thread for awhile it drew me back in. I also spent the last few years away changing my thoughts about things. Reading a lot more and getting a better understanding how things really work. Making contacts from multiple points of view, hearing them out and seeing the bigger picture.

I'm not M&R so I can't speak for how everyone feels. I'm not sure if I was in that group I could either unless I was a mind reader. Despise though is a pretty strong word. I despise apathy and continued stupidity personally myself. Maybe you're one of those guys touting up a change of Unions like people want to change out there underwear? Maybe? Ridiculous! I'm sorry but it was hilarious how the IBT dropped their drive and used an incredibly lame excuse for justification. Now AMFA. I see occassionally someone wearing those T-Shirts that look like something we bought for $6 at an old Judas Priest concert back in the 80's. I really tried over and over to tell our leadership to stop concerning themselves with that group. That they were and are irrelevant and castrated. That was the best part about the attempted IBT raid against the IAM at Usair. The IBT failed miserably and AMFA got 7 write in votes, 7!!!! I just had to throw out the "I told you so, I was right" gloat.

Anyway look. To me all I ever hear on social media are the loudmouths. Those that never want to try and fix there own house if they think somethings wrong with it. They just want to abandon it and move to another neighborhood. Problem with that is that new neighborhood always seems to have plenty of it's own riff raff. *****, *****, *****. Moan, moan, moan, Pfft!

So again to answer your question, NO. Right now I have no interest in participating in the same old squabbles that have been going on over there for years and I'm sure will continue to do so. You got anything new over there give me a shoutout. Otherwise I have some new people over here moving into my neighborhood and I'd like to see if we can spruce it up a little and mabe somewhere down the line throw a block party. No riff raff invited.