2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

Actually AANOTOC I really don't see anything over there that interests me at the moment if you want the truth. I used to post here in this forum until I was put on time out for questioning one of the moderators. Their page, their right of course. After that I went on to other avenues of interest but I always glanced over here from time to time. After reading this particular thread for awhile it drew me back in. I also spent the last few years away changing my thoughts about things. Reading a lot more and getting a better understanding how things really work. Making contacts from multiple points of view, hearing them out and seeing the bigger picture.

I'm not M&R so I can't speak for how everyone feels. I'm not sure if I was in that group I could either unless I was a mind reader. Despise though is a pretty strong word. I despise apathy and continued stupidity personally myself. Maybe you're one of those guys touting up a change of Unions like people want to change out there underwear? Maybe? Ridiculous! I'm sorry but it was hilarious how the IBT dropped their drive and used an incredibly lame excuse for justification. Now AMFA. I see occassionally someone wearing those T-Shirts that look like something we bought for $6 at an old Judas Priest concert back in the 80's. I really tried over and over to tell our leadership to stop concerning themselves with that group. That they were and are irrelevant and castrated. That was the best part about the attempted IBT raid against the IAM at Usair. The IBT failed miserably and AMFA got 7 write in votes, 7!!!! I just had to throw out the "I told you so, I was right" gloat.

Anyway look. To me all I ever hear on social media are the loudmouths. Those that never want to try and fix there own house if they think somethings wrong with it. They just want to abandon it and move to another neighborhood. Problem with that is that new neighborhood always seems to have plenty of it's own riff raff. ####, ####, ####. Moan, moan, moan, Pfft!

So again to answer your question, NO. Right now I have no interest in participating in the same old squabbles that have been going on over there for years and I'm sure will continue to do so. You got anything new over there give me a shoutout. Otherwise I have some new people over here moving into my neighborhood and I'd like to see if we can spruce it up a little and mabe somewhere down the line throw a block party. No riff raff invited. 

I -- for one, welcome your insight...
 
Some on here attempt to create a finished picture puzzle with several sets of incomplete puzzle pieces. These individuals just hammer the pieces together to make them fit their own idea of what the picture should look like.
 
Then, they hold-up their finished handy-work to the audience, and hope no one notices the damaged edges, gaping crevices, and color inconsistencies! 

 

[AANOTOK]

That's AANOTOK with a K.🙂   To answer your question, no, I haven't been "touting a change of unions" either actively or verbally. That's the M&R show. But I will say that while I am a dues paying member in good standing, I reserve the right to complain, challenge and criticize what my employees do for our work group. I attend the majority of meetings in Dallas (local 513) and have questioned and will continue to do so some things our local and International does.
 
Maybe your one of those TWU pumpers who thinks they never do anything wrong? I'm not. I've seen faults, personal agendas and just flat out wrong decisions made on behalf of the members. And I'm sure this would happen in any Union. So while change is hard by one, two or three people, as an individual, I will continue to do what I have done at DFW for 31 plus years.
 
Enough of my "riff raff", gonna move on.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's AANOTOK with a K. 🙂   To answer your question, no, I haven't been "touting a change of unions" either actively or verbally. That's the M&R show. But I will say that while I am a dues paying member in good standing, I reserve the right to complain, challenge and criticize what my employees do for our work group. I attend the majority of meetings in Dallas (local 513) and have questioned and will continue to do so some things our local and International does.
 
Maybe your one of those TWU pumpers who thinks they never do anything wrong? I'm not. I've seen faults, personal agendas and just flat out wrong decisions made on behalf of the members. And I'm sure this would happen in any Union. So while change is hard by one, two or three people, as an individual, I will continue to do what I have done at DFW for 31 plus years.
 
Enough of my "riff raff", gonna move on.

Oh I've seen more than my fair share of decisions that if I had had a say I would have done differently. But the differnce is that I try to voice those opinions in private out of the public eye or again on social media where I can guarantee you the company watches and takes notes. They study all the things we write like a bookworm in a library. And that's why any critisicm I have usually get's done over the phone directly. Sad to say but sometimes I'm not even trusting my opinion in that Union hall in Southlake. (12 year Local 513 member. Bet we know each other) Too many people sitting in chairs who I know cozy up to there CSM buddies like Joey, Chris, Brian and Kelly.

But as a TWU pumper, yep guilty as charged. I consider my Union something to be cherished and protected. I also feel extremely privileged to be a part of it. With Private sector Union rates at 6% I'm part of an exclusive club that not everyone is lucky enough to belong to. I can't stop others from helping all the forces that want to destroy my club, but I'm absolutely not going to join them!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

And AANOTO-K: Wasn't implicating you in the "Riff Raff" column. To me that depends on the exchanges we have and your way of thinking. I liked your last response.

 

[ograc]

+1
Clarification noted

Speaking of clarification; can we get authoritive clarification regarding Single Carrier Status? Is the TWU, based on the MOU they signed with DP, legally obligated to file for SCS within six months of the official merger? The two unions have entered into an agreement to co represent the combined post merger Fleet. This co representation will be known as "the Association". With no representation election thus far, for or against, the Association by the members does the NMB even recognize the Association as the legal bargaining representative for the combined Fleet post merger? If not; how does this affect the TWU's MOU obligation regarding filing for SCS? If the TWU is legally obligated to file for SCS within six months; what impact does this have on Section 6 negotiations for former US Fleet Service? These are questions that need to be addressed by both the TWU and the IAM with the members. While we are waiting to be released I would suggest issues and questions, such as the fore mentioned, should be officially addressed and answered. An educated and informed membership is paramount to solidarity.

 

[psa8979]

My bet cargo is the Lawyers,Courts, and NMB will decide your questions for the IAMATWU Members. Seems to be more opinions then facts and the Politics is trumping the truth about the Association.

 

[ograc]

My bet cargo is the Lawyers,Courts, and NMB will decide your questions for the IAMATWU Members. Seems to be more opinions then facts and the Politics is trumping the truth about the Association.

With that being said... we should realize the assumption of  the TWU holding the filing of SCS hostage to a section 6 agreement at US Fleet negotiations is leverage we may or may not have. If it is true the lawyers, courts and the NMB will decide; it makes sense why niether union has clearly addressed the issue. They know this issue will be decided by other parties. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Speaking of clarification; can we get authoritive clarification regarding Single Carrier Status? Is the TWU, based on the MOU they signed with DP, legally obligated to file for SCS within six months of the official merger? The two unions have entered into an agreement to co represent the combined post merger Fleet. This co representation will be known as "the Association". With no representation election thus far, for or against, the Association by the members does the NMB even recognize the Association as the legal bargaining representative for the combined Fleet post merger? If not; how does this affect the TWU's MOU obligation regarding filing for SCS? If the TWU is legally obligated to file for SCS within six months; what impact does this have on Section 6 negotiations for former US Fleet Service? These are questions that need to be addressed by both the TWU and the IAM with the members. While we are waiting to be released I would suggest issues and questions, such as the fore mentioned, should be officially addressed and answered. An educated and informed membership is paramount to solidarity.

100% yes, the TWU is obligated to file the single carrier within 6 months of effective date which is Jan 3, right?  Oh yes, that's a fact!   The Association is not recognized and can't possibly be certified by the NMB until after a single carrier filing. The TWU will file it.  The IAM will argue it and ask for hearings to cause extensive delays. My assumption is that the NMB will stall on all decisions.   Who knows what the NMB will do but I gotta give a small lean to the unions since it is Obama's admin and we have already seen how the NLRB has tilted with a lean towards unions in important determinations.  If the TWU doesn't file single carrier, then I'm sure management will sue for damages and fines.  I know Prez told parker that he isn't filing the single carrier until there is a TA, and I think the IAM said the same thing, but I see no legal stance against the single carrier application that won't result in a huge fine against the TWU. Unless the TWU is ready to go bankrupt.  I guess management could pull the 4.3% pay raise since that was what AH gave the TWU in return for the single carrier filing but I doubt management does that. 
 
I think there is a lot of smoke in the room when these guys are being intellectually dishonest and say the TWU doesn't have to file a single carrier. It's in the agreement and it's non negotiable. At any rate, I hope we don't lose more stations in the next two months.  Something is wrong.

 

[Tim Nelson]

My bet cargo is the Lawyers,Courts, and NMB will decide your questions for the IAMATWU Members. Seems to be more opinions then facts and the Politics is trumping the truth about the Association.

The IAM seems to be led by the NMB to suggest that a NMB decision regarding the release is coming down within two months.  A non favorable determination would not enhance leverage and may altar the IAM's position. Dunno.

 

[P. REZ]

100% yes, the TWU is obligated to file the single carrier within 6 months of effective date which is Jan 3, right?  Oh yes, that's a fact!   The Association is not recognized and can't possibly be certified by the NMB until after a single carrier filing. The TWU will file it.  The IAM will argue it and ask for hearings to cause extensive delays. My assumption is that the NMB will stall on all decisions.   Who knows what the NMB will do but I gotta give a small lean to the unions since it is Obama's admin and we have already seen how the NLRB has tilted with a lean towards unions in important determinations.  If the TWU doesn't file single carrier, then I'm sure management will sue for damages and fines.  I know Prez told parker that he isn't filing the single carrier until there is a TA, and I think the IAM said the same thing, but I see no legal stance against the single carrier application that won't result in a huge fine against the TWU. Unless the TWU is ready to go bankrupt.  I guess management could pull the 4.3% pay raise since that was what AH gave the TWU in return for the single carrier filing but I doubt management does that. 
 
I think there is a lot of smoke in the room when these guys are being intellectually dishonest and say the TWU doesn't have to file a single carrier. It's in the agreement and it's non negotiable. At any rate, I hope we don't lose more stations in the next two months.  Something is wrong.

Tim,
 
Just so you know, if you haven't heard someone say this then don't assume anything. I think the SCS topic needs to be off this forum. 
 
P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
Just so you know, if you haven't heard someone say this then don't assume anything. I think the SCS topic needs to be off this forum. 
 
P. Rez

Why?  Our peeps need to know what the TWU has to legally do.  I gotta jet now but I'll post the SCS agreement that the TWU has with AH tomorrow.   The TWU has to file for sure. If it doesn't, it could risk going bankrupt. 

 

[mike33]

Why?  Our peeps need to know what the TWU has to legally do.  I gotta jet now but I'll post the SCS agreement that the TWU has with AH tomorrow.   The TWU has to file for sure. If it doesn't, it could risk going bankrupt. 

  It's part of the M.O.U.! What is the purpose of leaving it off the forum? 

 

[bob@las-AA]

[SIZE=11pt]Something doesn’t make sense, this repeated reference to the “SCS”. I thought that it was the carrier to file for a “single carrier license”. A license from the FAA to fly as a single entity. What is this cr#p that I’m reading that whatever unions that are on premise have to file? Correct me if I’m wrong but after the license is granted then a vote from both unions membership is launched to elevate a single union. Effectively both unions cherry picking the best parts of both contracts and competing to come up with the best one. [/SIZE]

 

[700UW]

You are confusing Single Carrier Status which the union files with the NMB, with the Operating Certificate that the airlines gets from the FAA.
 
One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[pjirish317]

I didn't choose to have anyone run against you, whether it was UA or US.  I had no idea what position you were even up for but I would have assumed AGC.   I keep telling you that I was asked to be on the ticket and I said 'yes'.  Yet you blame me for everything as if this is 'my ticket'.  Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that because the ticket is solid but what you continually to suggest about me is a mischaracterization.  But I understand that there is nothing else you can campaign on other than "Get Timmy".  
 
Again, there are no US AIRWAYS spots.   A person can vote for whoever they want.  No US AIRWAYS candidate is entitled, including me, so in theory there may be no US AIRWAYS members who win.  Who knows? 
 
Slates pick candidates, the members decide who wins. There supposedly will be a Guam "spot" next time. Maybe the US AIRWAYS guys on the board should have considered having a US AIRWAYS 'spot' and crafted a bylaw like they did for Guam.  That's a thought.
 
At any rate, good to hear that the union leaders won't be making choices for the membership, only recommendations.

Tim,
 
Are you saying that you had ZERO input on who should run from the US side, and that the people that put the slate you are running on together just picked these two people? That UA people hand picked the US people to run? How did they choose? Are you the one being intellectually dishonest now?