2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

um, thats why i keep asking you to check with your union. And all of the usairways members are in capacity to tell you what happened last time. History is relevant even if you want to continue rejecting it. What is ridiculous is that you are complaining about the association when all of us have repeatedly told you that management is the problem. Some day you will realize that sUS management may be worst than horton was. At least i dont think anyone at sUS has been impressed.

Stop getting yourself worked up over the association and allow the proper processes to work out.

 
You will not be released. TWU Members are in a capacity to tell you what happened last time. History is relevant even if you want to continue rejecting it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You will not be released. TWU Members are in a capacity to tell you what happened last time. History is relevant even if you want to continue rejecting it.

when did u guys ask to be released? Werent you guys alot bigger than usairways? Did the nmb tell you guys along the way that it was not releasing you?

 

[NYer]

lets get one thing straight, i know who you are and i know some of the battles me and you had about the association. You talk about how intelligent you are and how intelligent i am but if either of us was as smart as you think then we wouldnt be throwing bags. In fact, speaking for myself, im no smarter than the average ramper.
The question i have is if twu does our work if we go on strike. Im not busting on the twu but that legal question has to be answered. Will you honor our picket in mia if our members go on strike? Yes ir no?

 
The TWU is under contract and the Railway Labor Act makes it illegal to have "sympathy" strikes or "honoring" of a strike. We, and every other union on property would have to comply with our contracts. On the other hand, I'm sure we would not cross into the realm of working flights that belong to US Airways, although they would just try to skirt around that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The TWU is under contract and the Railway Labor Act makes it illegal to have "sympathy" strikes or "honoring" of a strike. We, and every other union on property would have to comply with our contracts. On the other hand, I'm sure we would not cross into the realm of working flights that belong to US Airways, although they would just try to skirt around that.

i have to read your contract to see if management can skirt you guys otherwise there is some explaining to do my our nc

 

[NYer]

when did u guys ask to be released? Werent you guys alot bigger than usairways? Did the nmb tell you guys along the way that it was not releasing you?

 
WASHINGTON- (Dallas News- March 11, 2010) After four years of contract talks and little progress, the Transport Workers Union of America (TWU) today presented a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB) requesting that the union, which represents 28,000 workers at American Airlines and American Eagle, be released from federal mediation. TWU’s action now starts a process where the NMB will determine if the union will be granted “self-help” — essentially the right to strike.
------------------
(Dallas News- November 14, 2010) After years of talks, the unions have reached no final deals with the carrier, both sides have dug in and there's little evidence of movement.
 
Consider:
 
• American and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants haven't had a negotiating session since May 21, when a week of talks overseen by the National Mediation Board ended without a deal.
• Mechanics and related employees represented by the Transport Workers Union turned down a proposed contract in late August, as did a smaller TWU unit. There have been no talks since.
• A mediation board official told American and the Allied Pilots Association that they'd made so little progress after four years of negotiations that the agency's mediators won't schedule any more meetings with them until 2011.
------------------
(Dallas News, August 12, 2011)“Mediator Jack Kane informed Co-Chairs Larry Pike and Don Videtich, as well as American Airlines management, that due to the amount of time expended in these mediated sessions, insufficient progress, and insufficient hope for progress, the NMB could not justify scheduling future mediated sessions at this time.” --Dallas News August 12, 2011
-----------------
So, even though there was little to no progress in mediated talks, the NMB did NOT release the parties and instead put everyone on ice in order to try and make the process move. At this time, the APA may have seen the writing on the wall and continued to meet with the airline despite no participation by the NMB.

 

[NYer]

i have to read your contract to see if management can skirt you guys otherwise there is some explaining to do my our nc

 
If American Airlines adds "extra-sections" flown by AA's Operating Certificate, we would have to work those flights. Wouldn't we.

 

[Tim Nelson]

WASHINGTON- (Dallas News- March 11, 2010) After four years of contract talks and little progress, the Transport Workers Union of America (TWU) today presented a letter to the National Mediation Board (NMB) requesting that the union, which represents 28,000 workers at American Airlines and American Eagle, be released from federal mediation. TWU’s action now starts a process where the NMB will determine if the union will be granted “self-help” — essentially the right to strike.
------------------
(Dallas News- November 14, 2010) After years of talks, the unions have reached no final deals with the carrier, both sides have dug in and there's little evidence of movement.
 
Consider:
 
• American and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants haven't had a negotiating session since May 21, when a week of talks overseen by the National Mediation Board ended without a deal.
• Mechanics and related employees represented by the Transport Workers Union turned down a proposed contract in late August, as did a smaller TWU unit. There have been no talks since.
• A mediation board official told American and the Allied Pilots Association that they'd made so little progress after four years of negotiations that the agency's mediators won't schedule any more meetings with them until 2011.
------------------
(Dallas News, August 12, 2011)“Mediator Jack Kane informed Co-Chairs Larry Pike and Don Videtich, as well as American Airlines management, that due to the amount of time expended in these mediated sessions, insufficient progress, and insufficient hope for progress, the NMB could not justify scheduling future mediated sessions at this time.” --Dallas News August 12, 2011
-----------------
So, even though there was little to no progress in mediated talks, the NMB did NOT release the parties and instead put everyone on ice in order to try and make the process move. At this time, the APA may have seen the writing on the wall and continued to meet with the airline despite no participation by the NMB.

i think the reality of the situation has changed. Back in 2010 the economy was more fragile plus the airline industry was still barely out of bankruptcy although sAA was headed there. Today, the industry is booming and usairways is about half the size of what sAA was in 2010.

At any rate, if the nmb stalls ruling then lets just put the seamlessness of this merger on the shelf until management wants to offer a fair deal.

 

[necigrad]

 
If American Airlines adds "extra-sections" flown by AA's Operating Certificate, we would have to work those flights. Wouldn't we.

I didn't realize that AA had all these extra planes to throw on US routes.

 

[Jester]

NYer,
 
I didn't know that AA fleet had people in PHX, CLT and PHL.... so add more flights into those hubs and what AA agents are going to work them?

 

[Tim Nelson]

NYer,
 
I didn't know that AA fleet had people in PHX, CLT and PHL.... so add more flights into those hubs and what AA agents are going to work them?

that is a problem for management.

 

[NYer]

I didn't realize that AA had all these extra planes to throw on US routes.

 
 

NYer,
 
I didn't know that AA fleet had people in PHX, CLT and PHL.... so add more flights into those hubs and what AA agents are going to work them?

 
It isn't a full invasion, the post was a mere explanation as to how AA could skirt the issue of having AA employees inherit some of the US Airways traffic. It is an example and not a representation of what will happen.
 
For that, you'd need to realize that the NMB would never allow US Airways to strike. The only leverage gained is the "threat" of a strike which would cause passengers to book away from US Airways and that may create a little leverage. However, being in the beginning of a merger with an airline barely out of bankruptcy the NMB and the government will not risk a financial hardship to the airline or the nations' economy.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It isn't a full invasion, the post was a mere explanation as to how AA could skirt the issue of having AA employees inherit some of the US Airways traffic. It is an example and not a representation of what will happen.
 
For that, you'd need to realize that the NMB would never allow US Airways to strike. The only leverage gained is the "threat" of a strike which would cause passengers to book away from US Airways and that may create a little leverage. However, being in the beginning of a merger with an airline barely out of bankruptcy the NMB and the government will not risk a financial hardship to the airline or the nations' economy.

this case is one of usairways and not sAA. The nmb will rule on the 5th biggest airline at a time that such airline and such industry is the healthiest ever. This isnt the case of sAA where 12,000 rampers could go on strike, this is the case where 5,000 rampers go on strike. Or of course 3,500 mx. The nmb ruled in 1992 to allow 5,000 mx to walk at sUS.

Imo, there is a fatal flaw of reasoning when one says that the nmb will never release us when such reasoning is based on the bankruptcy years or when compared to "the big 3".
Usairways is a small carrier.

 

[ograc]

Tim before you make assumptions maybe you should ask for clarity if you want to be in a leadership position?

Before the Pilot group were able to get there conscessions down from 20% to 17% and our raises were made possible with that 3% "Me Too" clause, we were about to take a 43 cent per hour pay cut. Our negotiators DID request deeper cuts to save those Stations and SCOPE but the company held firm in saying NO. They wanted the stations and the SCOPE change and just as your group knows all too well in a Bankruptcy scenario it's the company that holds the gun with all chambers loaded.

And even if that wasn't the case you have to be concerned with how the membership will vote as again they are the ultimate deciders. Would a majority of the members be willing to take a substantial cut to retain those stations and could ANY leaders be able to explain to them that they should and the importance of that? You and I would have but I saw members on social media pages up in arms just for the lousy 43 cents. And that's a fact.

What was done during the bankruptcy now is irrelevant to the association and the question I am asking. I'm safely positioned here where I want to be in MIA. But these other people are not and they are suffering because of it.

WeAAsles,
You are right; the membership is the ultimate deciders. You witnessed, on social media pages, members up in arms over a lousy 43 cents to retain scope in outline stations. The end result... blood money for the jobs and livelihoods of fellow members. The same thing with US Bankruptcy agreements. I don't see how the Association is going to sell the long term importance of protecting work (in outline stations) to a membership that is predominantly made up of members in hub stations; let alone selling the said members, who voted for the blood money in the first place, the idea of getting the jobs back should be a top priority in negotiations going forward. Should it be? Absolutely! Will it be? With the self centered and short sighted mind set that is prevelant within the membership I don't see it happening. Hope I'm wrong!    

 

[700UW]

 
The decision given by the Arbitrator clearly shows how the language in the TWU contract was the deciding factor over the same language in the IAM contract. Fast forward 13 years and each CBA contains the same language.

And the IAM and TWU have all ready agreed upon DOH into the classification for seniority, it was announced months ago.
 
Dont you know that?

 

[Tim Nelson]

And the IAM and TWU have all ready agreed upon DOH into the classification for seniority, it was announced months ago.
 
Dont you know that?

Go get'm 700.  Again, you are absolutely right.