2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[charlie Brown]

You're correct that RLA covered units can't simply strike.  Once released, however, the rules change.  Strikes under the RLA are NOT illegal.  The correct question isn't "Can the other groups strike" but "can the other groups refuse to cross our strike line".  700 has mentioned numerous times that this has apparently been tested in the past and they can, though I have not researched if it's true or not.

Most if not all airlines including us, have in their contracts that you can not strike until all steps of the RLA have been exhausted. However once the steps of the RLA have been exhausted which include being released and the 30 day chilling period, then we are free to strike.

 

[737823]

Tim, what happens in the event the company locks fleet out after a release?

Josh

 

[charlie Brown]

that may be tried josh but it's going to be up to us as a group to vote it down.
I have confidence that people like CB or Prez at least won't try to bs us about how good an agreement is. Hopefully I won't be proven wrong on that.

Rat
I have always gave my word that I will tell everyone the good and bad of any T/A that we may get. That's one of the main things I complained about that the last team didn't do. So I will tell both sides of the T/A.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim made this comment, "We have to keep our unions accountable and everyone should realize that sAA only has 17 stations but many of them can get whacked after their cinderella dates expire."
 
There is no cinderella date.

cinderella dates are time bombs that are any expiration date prior to the ammendable date. Your contract has an expiration date one day prior to ammendable date which is common language for a bankruptcy contract. Those dates are also referred to drop dead dates that give the company a window of time to cleanse union jobs. When the twu explained the contract, it lied and said it didnt think the company would take advantage of this clause. To this day, many twu members are deluded into the false security that the twu told them. No, not all your 17 stations are protected beyond ammendability as your local presidents think. Ill stop short of saying they were intellectually dishonest because it could very well be that they really didnt know what they signed. We had negotiators who didnt know what they signed either when they thought our 1113 letters were guaranteed like ghe bankrupt attorney said.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, what happens in the event the company locks fleet out after a release?Josh

i will be working on a q and a with all the correct info so we can be more confident and build solidarity. In the meantime, i trust the eboard of iam141 with building the proper support. Ill yield your question of what happens with a lockout to cb. CB?

 

[737823]

cinderella dates are time bombs that are any expiration date prior to the ammendable date. Your contract has an expiration date one day prior to ammendable date which is common language for a bankruptcy contract. Those dates are also referred to drop dead dates that give the company a window of time to cleanse union jobs. When the twu explained the contract, it lied and said it didnt think the company would take advantage of this clause. To this day, many twu members are deluded into the false security that the twu told them. No, not all your 17 stations are protected beyond ammendability as your local presidents think. Ill stop short of saying they were intellectually dishonest because it could very well be that they really didnt know what they signed. We had negotiators who didnt know what they signed either when they thought our 1113 letters were guaranteed like ghe bankrupt attorney said.

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/AirContracts/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

So the current TWU stations remain staffed provided they have at least 7 mainline flight/day on average (2555 annual departures).

After the drop dead date if they have fewer than 15 mainline flights/day (5475 annual departures) they can be outsourced.

However it takes 20 mainline flights/day on average (7300 annual departures) to trigger re-staffing.


However deficient this language is it is still much, much better than the UA agreement.

Josh

 

[charlie Brown]

i will be working on a q and a with all the correct info so we can be more confident and build solidarity. In the meantime, i trust the eboard of iam141 with building the proper support. Ill yield your question of what happens with a lockout to cb. CB?

Lol, your so sweet yielding to me. I'm so touched!!
But seriously, I am glad to here that you'll do a Q & A soon.
The lockout could happen, but IMO the company would more than likely, in order to keep operations going, would impose their last best offer on us. And we would be forced to work under the last best offer. Or strike! Although I don't think it would ever come to this, I think our best option would be to work under the last best offer for a period of time, while keeping the company on notice that we were free to walk at anytime. Then if it came to that point, walk with a very short notice. But in the past, whenever a airline has locked out a group, they have had to suspend operations for a period of time. I just don't see Parker doing that.

 

[mike33]

i will be working on a q and a with all the correct info so we can be more confident and build solidarity. In the meantime, i trust the eboard of iam141 with building the proper support. Ill yield your question of what happens with a lockout to cb. CB?

  Do you really think the company is going down the lockout road?   I don't think they will even chance that.   Hell, they would have to shut down the system for who knows how long just to clean up the mess!    Plus they can't just lock out lax and not ord and all the others.   The system would implode.   They would have to lock out 5k + ramp/clp/and others, let alone not knowing who or when the other unions would sympathize . Basicly lockout all of us at once, not pick and chose.
 
Just my opinion....
 
Again " Leverage " +11111

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh, much better than united agreement. 7 stations is the work of butchers and lorenzoites.

 

[NYer]

You have no idea of what you are talking about.
 
The NMB doesn't write laws, the RLA permits strikes, sympathy  strikes and lockouts.
 
The company and union negotiate no strike/no lockout articles in the CBA.
 
If it's against federal law to honor a picket line as you say, then why is there language in the AFA, CWA and all three IAM CBAS at US that permit it?

 
When was the last time there was a strike in the airline industry and ALL unions walked off, whether they were in mediation or not. When?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Do you really think the company is going down the lockout road?   I don't think they will even chance that.   Hell, they would have to shut down the system for who knows how long just to clean up the mess!    Plus they can't just lock out lax and not ord and all the others.   The system would implode.   They would have to lock out 5k + ramp/clp/and others, let alone not knowing who or when the other unions would sympathize . Basicly lockout all of us at once, not pick and chose.
 
Just my opinion....
 
Again " Leverage " +11111

the question was about a lockout. It isnt for me to say what the company will do. We cant control that. Cb hit it on the head and im now hearing about the very successful option of staying on the job and deciding when deciding when to strike or not, not just when the nmb or company expects us too.

It wasnt too many pages back where "some" said that a company can lock u out if u dont strike. Tsk tsk

 

[Tim Nelson]

When was the last time there was a strike in the airline industry and ALL unions walked off, whether they were in mediation or not. When?

go get'm 700!

 

[NYer]

You're correct that RLA covered units can't simply strike.  Once released, however, the rules change.  Strikes under the RLA are NOT illegal.  The correct question isn't "Can the other groups strike" but "can the other groups refuse to cross our strike line".  700 has mentioned numerous times that this has apparently been tested in the past and they can, though I have not researched if it's true or not.

 
Because of the "status quo," other unions aren't allowed to walk off or honor a picket line in the course of working their own agreement. Most airlines will even take the extra step to file a preventive injunction to prevent such an act or even a "slow down."

 

[700UW]

Yes they are, can you not read?
 
We have the language at US and has been arbitrated and won by the AFA at US.
 
And no one said they will walk off, at US they can honor the picket line, thats not striking.
 
Can you not read and comprehend?
 
You have no idea of what you are talking about, read it and learn!
 
 

 
© It is understood and agreed that the Company will not lock out any employees covered hereby, and the Union will not authorize or take part in any strikes, sit downs, slowdowns, or picketing of Company premises during the life of this Agreement until the procedures for settling disputes as provided herein and provided by the Railway Labor Act, as amended, have been exhausted.
 
The Company will not require the employees to cross picket lines of the Company's employees legally established under contractual provisions and the Railway Labor Act on or in front of the premises. The individual or concerted refusal to pass such picket lines shall not constitute grounds for discipline, discharge, lay-off, or be considered a  violation of this Agreement.

(D) The Company shall not perform “Struck Work” of Wholly Owned Carriers. “Struck Work” is Mechanic and Related work traditionally and regularly performed by a Wholly Owned Carrier where and during the period the mechanic and related employees of that Wholly Owned Carrier are engaged in a lawful strike, and where the Company has not previously performed the work in question. There shall be no prohibition against a concerted refusal of employees of the Company to perform “Struck Work”.
 
Moreover, the Company will not hire employees of Wholly Owned Carriers to perform Mechanic and Related work at the Company during a period when the Company’s Mechanic and Related employees are engaged in a  lawful strike.
 

 

[necigrad]

Necigrad,
 
When we went on strike in 1992, the AFA and its flight attendants honored our picket line.
The company went to court and got an injunction, the court remanded it to arbitration as it was contractual language and the AFA won, so they are permitted to honor a sanctioned picket line at US, I have posted the language several times and here it is again:

 

I'm not saying you're wrong or being inaccurate, just that you've posted that it's true and I haven't checked.  You've provided no sources so it would be foolish for me to say that you have provided proof without me verifying.