2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[john john]

So Tim it sounds like RD is not going to accept a similar deal that UA got given his demands to the NMB to be released

The one big difference between UA and US is that US has the mechanic and related on the same timetable and has equally use the same strategy. A lot is a stake for the IAM. UA IAM agents not so much. We will see if IAM serves up fleet service

 

[NYer]

You still dont grasp it.
 
Because there is an SCS filed doesnt mean their will be synergies.
 
Hasnt actual history at US shown you this.
 
The pilots have had an SCS since 2006 yet there is no synergies and there is no JCBA and they are still working under their respective CBAs since the merger.
 
The flight attendants worked under an SCS and it took them EIGHT years to get a JCBA.
Where are those synergies?
 
I showed you examples of UA and CO were there was an SCS and no JCBA and separate CBA negotiated for PMUA and PMCO for the M&R and the FAs.
No synergies there either.
 
So even if an SCS is filed doesnt guarantee that the TWU and IAM will end Section 6 Negotiations and achieve an JCBA.
 
No synergies there either.
 
And if the TWU files the SCS they will violate the agreement they signed with the IAM.
 
And even if they file the SCS, both the IAM and the TWU will file for the alliance and bring it to a vote.
 
Still no synergies there.
 
So show us your knowledge and show the board what damages it will cause the new AA and what "pain" it will cause the TWU.
 
I have asked you several times all ready and you keep avoiding the reality of the situation.
 
Its 5,000 ramp and over 4,000 M&R and MTS.

 
Has that agreement been voted on and recognized by the NMB? No. Therefore, is it a binding document?
 
From the "Joint Council" document, "At an appropriate time mutually agreed to by the International Presidents of TWU and lAM after the closing of the merger transaction between American Airlines and US Airways, tile Association shall file an application with the National Mediation Board for Investigation of a single carrier representation dispute among the Carrier's Employees, and for certification of the Association as the representative of the Employees and extinguishment of the Labor Partners' pre-merger certifications at American Airlines and US Airways."
 
From the Q&A of the "Asociation" announcement:
 
"Q: When will the Association begin bargaining a combined/joint contract?"
"A. After the airlines' merger is completed and the membership approves a TWU/IAM joint representation alliance."
 
AND
 
"Q: Willi have the opportunity to vote on whether or not I am represented by the Association?"
"A: Yes. Following the completion of the American- US Airways' merger, the Associations will file representation applications with the National Mediation Board (NMB), a federal agency, which will culminate in three separate elections, one for each of the Mechanic & Related, Fleet Service and Stores classifications. You will vote in the election of the classification in which you work with others from both carriers."

 

[NYer]

Your opinion and speculation is duly noted. Correct speculation and opinions will come to pass as things progress. Correct me if I'm wrong but the members voting on a final offer only happens at the end of a cooling off period following a release and prior to an authorized strike. Correct?  

 
Not unless the NMB requires the union to vote on a last offer before moving on or if the union violates the "good faith" bargaining. The NMB is there to get a deal....not a "fair" deal, not a "respectable" deal, not a "meaningful" deal.....Just a deal, and they employ many tactics in order to do that.
 
Here is a stat from their own website..."97% of all mediation cases in the history of the NMB have been successfully resolved without interruptions to Public Service. Since 1980, the success rate has been nearly 99 percent."

 

[Tim Nelson]

Has that agreement been voted on and recognized by the NMB? No. Therefore, is it a binding document?
 
From the "Joint Council" document, "At an appropriate time mutually agreed to by the International Presidents of TWU and lAM after the closing of the merger transaction between American Airlines and US Airways, tile Association shall file an application with the National Mediation Board for Investigation of a single carrier representation dispute among the Carrier's Employees, and for certification of the Association as the representative of the Employees and extinguishment of the Labor Partners' pre-merger certifications at American Airlines and US Airways."
 
From the Q&A of the "Asociation" announcement:
 
"Q: When will the Association begin bargaining a combined/joint contract?"
"A. After the airlines' merger is completed and the membership approves a TWU/IAM joint representation alliance."
 
AND
 
"Q: Willi have the opportunity to vote on whether or not I am represented by the Association?"
"A: Yes. Following the completion of the American- US Airways' merger, the Associations will file representation applications with the National Mediation Board (NMB), a federal agency, which will culminate in three separate elections, one for each of the Mechanic & Related, Fleet Service and Stores classifications. You will vote in the election of the classification in which you work with others from both carriers."

the scs application will be filed by the association as yhe twu did agree to yield yo the association on that as its agent. But it is entirly imptobable that the twu will intentionally violate its contract with the company.

 

[NYer]

the scs application will be filed by the association as yhe twu did agree to yield yo the association on that as its agent. But it is entirly imptobable that the twu will intentionally violate its contract with the company.

Until the Association files for the SCS, the TWU is bound to the MOU in which they are to file for the SCS within 6 months from the Effective Date of the Merger.

 

[ograc]

 
Not unless the NMB requires the union to vote on a last offer before moving on or if the union violates the "good faith" bargaining. The NMB is there to get a deal....not a "fair" deal, not a "respectable" deal, not a "meaningful" deal.....Just a deal, and they employ many tactics in order to do that.
 
Here is a stat from their own website..."97% of all mediation cases in the history of the NMB have been successfully resolved without interruptions to Public Service. Since 1980, the success rate has been nearly 99 percent."

Thank you for the clarification. The RLA is in place to insure there is no disruption in interstate commerce. The NMB's sole responsibility is to mediate contractual negotiations and bring the parties to an agreement.They have many tactics and options at their disposal to achieve this goal. This is the playing field established, that all labor organizations, under the authority of the RLA and ultimately the NMB must adhere to. If the NMB were to consider releasing one of the two groups; IMO... it would be the group that is potentially closer to an agreement. The process is frustrating from a NC's standpoint and an elected officer's stanpoint. Not to mention; the frustration and impatience of the membership. One thing is certain; it will take more than a single union candidate or leadership team being elected to change the tide under the RLA and the NMB. In the meantime... every member must realize and appreciate the parameters of the battlefield.

 

[cltrat]

OK Rat... for the sake of peace, I’ll lay-off bustin’ on ya... I guess we got into a pissing match that escalated too far. I’m willing to bury the hatchet with you. I’ve met you, and I liked you...
 
However, believe me when I tell you this... I’m here because the JOB is NOT done! When the current 6 talks conclude, and "if" the Membership feels they were slighted by the current leaders... I will leave this sight for GOOD! All this garbage about me being best friends with AGC’s and N/C members is simply not true...
 
You can choose to believe me... or... you can continue with the same implications as you have in the past... Think about it... I’m NOT running for anything... there is no six figure job in my future for being here! I’m here doing what I’m doing because it’s what I fought hard for over the course of my employment years... and that is Section Six during record profits!

considered it buried roabilly, I have now or have ever had any issues as a person  you're a good man.
Some things we just disagree about but that's the best thing about being in this country freedom to disagree and speak about issues.
but at the end of the day we want most of the same things.

 

[roabilly]

Thank you for the clarification. The RLA is in place to insure there is no disruption in interstate commerce. The NMB's sole responsibility is to mediate contractual negotiations and bring the parties to an agreement.They have many tactics and options at their disposal to achieve this goal. This is the playing field established, that all labor organizations, under the authority of the RLA and ultimately the NMB must adhere to. If the NMB were to consider releasing one of the two groups; IMO... it would be the group that is potentially closer to an agreement. The process is frustrating from a NC's standpoint and an elected officer's stanpoint. Not to mention; the frustration and impatience of the membership. One thing is certain; it will take more than a single union candidate or leadership team being elected to change the tide under the RLA and the NMB. In the meantime... every member must realize and appreciate the parameters of the battlefield.

Cargo.
 
100% CORRECT in all regards! Anyone that claims they can prance into an officers, or presidential position within the 141 or 142, and change these parameters, is being intellectually dishonest for dubious personal reasons! 

 

[roabilly]

considered it buried roabilly, I have now or have ever had any issues as a person  you're a good man.
Some things we just disagree about but that's the best thing about being in this country freedom to disagree and speak about issues.
but at the end of the day we want most of the same things.

Good deal... we're good, and I apologize for my sharp retorts... you are quite witty yourself though... a tough opponent!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Until the Association files for the SCS, the TWU is bound to the MOU in which they are to file for the SCS within 6 months from the Effective Date of the Merger.

someone will file within 6 months. It could be the twu but considering the association agreement, that wouldnt make as much sense as the association filing in satisfaction of the mou and then being placed on the ballot.

Time will tell who files but no way do i believe the twu violates the contract like it has been described to iam members. Those claiming that the twu will just tell the company to file a grievance are far fetched.

I also dont believe the nmb will rule quickly on any supposed impasse. I dont think it is as open or shut as you do but, nonetheless, its not something we should be singly focused on.

I think a fair agreement can be reached but right now the rhetoric is really stalling talks.

 

[Eagle]

Ladies & Gentlemen,
 
We are now well north of 30 deleted posts today alone. The topic is Fleet Service, not who has multiple user names. If you need to review the board's Terms of Service, please do so. 
 

 

[NYer]

someone will file within 6 months. It could be the twu but considering the association agreement, that wouldnt make as much sense as the association filing in satisfaction of the mou and then being placed on the ballot.
Time will tell who files but no way do i believe the twu violates the contract like it has been described to iam members. Those claiming that the twu will just tell the company to file a grievance are far fetched.
I also dont believe the nmb will rule quickly on any supposed impasse. I dont think it is as open or shut as you do but, nonetheless, its not something we should be singly focused on.
I think a fair agreement can be reached but right now the rhetoric is really stalling talks.

Of course, that includes your rhetoric.

There will be no impasse. In this process, the NMB decides the question of fairness and will pursue a deal in the short term. If the Association doesn't file before June, then the TWU will have no choice but to file separately.

 

[700UW]

The agreement for joint representation has to be voted on, but the agreement is signed between the IAM and TWU is valid on all points except joint representation which has to be voted one.

 

[700UW]

700 how is LL 1725?

Josh

And your point is?

 

[NYer]

The agreement for joint representation has to be voted on, but the agreement is signed between the IAM and TWU is valid on all points except joint representation which has to be voted one.

How could it be valid or binding if it hasn't been voted on by the Members and thereby recognized by the NMB?

Tentative Agreements, for example, are valid but not official unless voted on and approved by the Members.

That being the case, it is possible for the TWU to be forced to file a SCS by June, as stipulated in their MOU with US Airways which is binding.