2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

Better go ask Lombardo and Pantoja.

 

[wikileaks]

Today the NMB asked for the unions Final Offer, the union presented a final package on all outstanding issues including sick time and pay, the union presented AA wages at $22.57 now and in September $23.00 every year after that 2% pay increase. The company took the proposal and will have an opportunity to respond. Historically when the NMB asks the union for their Final Offer and the company rejects it, it sets off a cooling of period, a PEB (Presidential Emergency Board) will be established, folks this is real and be prepared.... Don't be surprised, work a couple of weekends now and save your money a strike is a real possibility

 

[700UW]

A PEB is established right before the 30 day cooling off period is set to expire.
 
It extends it another 30 days while the union and the company present their case in front of the PEB, so the union isnt free to strike nor can the company impose terms.
 
A PEB is only established if the board asks the President to do so, we went out on strike in 1992 and no PEB was asked for.
 
The PEB is not binding unless the unions strike and Congress legislates the PEB findings into the new CBA.
 
I think you meant that the 30 cooling off period will start if and when the board releases the IAM and US from negotiations and starts the 30 day cooling off period.
 
And once the parties are released the NMB will call both parties back for super mediation before the cooling off period expires.

 

[NYer]

Today the NMB asked for the unions Final Offer, the union presented a final package on all outstanding issues including sick time and pay, the union presented AA wages at $22.57 now and in September $23.00 every year after that 2% pay increase. The company took the proposal and will have an opportunity to respond. Historically when the NMB asks the union for their Final Offer and the company rejects it, it sets off a cooling of period, a PEB (Presidential Emergency Board) will be established, folks this is real and be prepared.... Don't be surprised, work a couple of weekends now and save your money a strike is a real possibility

Pretty irresponsible to suggest a 30 day cooling off period if imminent. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is 0 chance of the IAM being released. That type of rhetoric is ridiculous and shows little knowledge of the process

 

[700UW]

And you are an AA employee with the TWU, you arent in the IAM nor an US employee.
 
I believe wiki as this person is credible I have heard the same information that he has posted from my IAM sources.
 
The board cant hold off forever, US stated they are done negotiating, what dont you understand about being asked for a Final Offer?
 
Do you understand that concept?
 
We have been on strike before, and been in two different 30 day cooling off periods, once in 92 and we struck, and then again in 99 when we voted down the final offer and then ratified a new agreement that was reached in Super Mediation.

 

[NYer]

And you are an AA employee with the TWU, you arent in the IAM nor an US employee.
 
I believe wiki as this person is credible I have heard the same information that he has posted from my IAM sources.
 
The board cant hold off forever, US stated they are done negotiating, what dont you understand about being asked for a Final Offer?
 
Do you understand that concept?
 
We have been on strike before, and been in two different 30 day cooling off periods, once in 92 and we struck, and then again in 99 when we voted down the final offer and then ratified a new
agreement that was reached in Super Mediation.

This isn't '92 or' 99. The industry and the environment are completely different. The political environment will not lend itself to any type of intervention. The goal of the NMB is to get a deal, regardless what kind of deal. If the Final Offer was actually requested then the IAM will soon be trying to negotiate a deal that's realistic in the NMB's mind or you will be voting on the airlines' Final Offer.

That's the play.

 

[700UW]

No its not.
 
The play is to be released and both parties go into super mediation to reach a deal or a strike will happen.
 
Its not that hard to understand Mr AA and TWU.

 

[NYer]

No its not.
 
The play is to be released and both parties go into super mediation to reach a deal or a strike will happen.
 
Its not that hard to understand Mr AA and TWU.

NOT HAPPENING. You'll be voting on a Final Offer, then Joint Negotiations (assuming the Association files for the SCS in time). =)

 

[700UW]

You truly dont get it.
 
The only way the IAM will vote on a final offer is when the board releases both parties into the 30 day cooling off period.
 
Then it will be voting on the final offer and voting to strike.
 
There will be no vote on a final offer unless both parties are released.
 
How many NCs have you been on?
 
I have been on the M&R NC before and the NC for CO FAs.
 
We have been on strike in 92 and released into a 30 day cooling off period in 99.
 
This isnt AA nor the TWU.
 
There will be no JCBA negotiations until all three IAM groups at US get new Section 6 CBAs.

 

[NYer]

You truly dont get it.
 
The only way the IAM will vote on a final offer is when the board releases both parties into the 30 day cooling off period.
 
Then it will be voting on the final offer and voting to strike.
 
There will be no vote on a final offer unless both parties are released.
 
How many NCs have you been on?
 
I have been on the M&R NC before and the NC for CO FAs

 
We have been on strike in 92 and released into a 30 day cooling off period in 99.
 
This isnt AA nor the TWU.
 
There will be no JCBA negotiations until all three IAM groups at US get new Section 6 CBAs.

I agree, no Joint until you get a deal first.

We went through this process in 2010, with the current Presidential Administration and with the current NMB personnel. With that backdrop I can tell you that this NMB will NOT start a 30 day cooling off period. That's of the table and the pressure on the IAM will increase which will push the issue into getting a deal. The NMB will force a vote and promote the ability for the Members to vote. If the IAM doesn't agree your will be out in ice for a while where it will be absolutely apparent there is no 30 day cooling off period coming or a PEB. The NMB will and can steal the decision of an impasse indefinitely.

We had 9 contracts in mediation at AA, they were all settled in this same fashion. So you can go with recent tendencies or ancient history.

It is unfortunate, but the NMB is not the solution or the savior.

 

[700UW]

I agree, no Joint until you get a deal first.

We went through this process in 2010, with the current Presidential Administration and with the current NMB personnel. With that backdrop I can tell you that this NMB will NOT start a 30 day cooling off period. That's of the table and the pressure on the IAM will increase which will push the issue into getting a deal. The NMB will force a vote and promote the ability for the Members to vote. If the IAM doesn't agree your will be out in ice for a while where it will be absolutely apparent there is no 30 day cooling off period coming or a PEB. The NMB will and can steal the decision of an impasse indefinitely.

We had 9 contracts in mediation at AA, they were all settled in this same fashion. So you can go with recent tendencies or ancient history.

It is unfortunate, but the NMB is not the solution or the savior.

The TWU never asked for a release, shall I PM Bob Owens to have him jog your  memory and use the correct facts?
 
There will be no vote on final offer, that only occurs in a 30 day cooling off period.
 
This is the IAM and not the TWU, the IAM members at US are fed up and want a new CBA or they will use self-help when permitted.
 
There has all ready been work safe during Thanksgiving and Christmas, ask CLTRAT who was there if you dont believe me.
 
US got mad at CLT Heavy as the overhauls werent making their ETRs so they farmed out a 757 as retaliation.
 
The NMB cannot force a vote on any union for a new CBA, they dont have that kind of power.
 
You are truly clueless on the process.
 
You are not an IAM member nor a US employee, you have no idea of what will happen.
 
I know almost everyone on the US M&R Committee and know several on the Fleet Committee, most of them are good friends of mine.

 

[NYer]

February 19, 2010 - Transport Workers Union leaders, who represent more than 28,000 workers at American Airlines and American Eagle, announced this morning that unless all outstanding contract issues are settled at the two carriers by the end of mediated discussion on March 8, union members will seek an immediate release from federal mediation.
 
April 12, 2010 - This week, the National Mediation Board will take up the requests of two American Airlines Inc. unions that want to be released from mediation and be allowed to strike.
 
So what will it do in the cases of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants and Transport Workers Union?
This is the first time the board has faced such a request involving a major carrier since President Barack Obama took office in January 2009. And the industry - both airline managements and unions - are looking to see how the NMB handles these cases.
 
May 25, 2010 - The airline and union have been in contract talks since mid-2008 and in mediated negotiations overseen by the National Mediation Board since early 2009.
 
APFA officials in March asked the board to declare an impasse and release both sides from mediation. That would start a 30-day cooling-off period, after which the union could strike.
 
Instead, the mediation board on April 14 told American and the union to return to the table for more talks. Those negotiations ended Friday without a deal, and the board has not yet set times for additional discussions.
 
The union last week announced that more than 96 percent of its members who voted had cast ballots in favor of authorizing a strike.
 
July 1, 2010 - The Transport Workers Union instructed its locals Thursday to conduct a strike vote among American Airlines Inc. fleet service clerks and ground workers, with hopes that the National Mediation Board will declare an impasse and allow a walkout. The union threw out a tentative agreement with American on Monday and renewed its call for the NMB to release the union from further mediation. That would trigger a 30-day cooling-off period, after which the union could strike.
 
Robert Gless, deputy director of TWU's Air Transport Division, said the union believes the board could give it a release "as early as September," which would mean a potential strike in October.
 
August 26, 2010 - American Airlines officials are in a holding pattern after the airline’s largest union rejected a proposed contract on Tuesday. The Transport Workers Union (TWU) which represents several American Airlines work groups announced on its Web site late Tuesday that the airline’s mechanics groups had voted down a provisional pay deal.
 
American’s stock clerks’ group also rejected a proposed contract, while a third American Airlines group, technical specialists, approved the deal American Airlines presented to them.

American is also in labor talks with other work groups, including the pilots’ and flight attendants’ unions.
 
November 13, 2010 - American and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants haven't had a negotiating session since May 21, when a week of talks overseen by the National Mediation Board ended without a deal.
 
Mechanics and related employees represented by the Transport Workers Union turned down a proposed contract in late August, as did a smaller TWU unit. There have been no talks since.
 
A mediation board official told American and the Allied Pilots Association that they'd made so little progress after four years of negotiations that the agency's mediators won't schedule any more meetings with them until 2011.
 
July 27, 2011 - After two more days of Federal mediation (July 25 & 26, 2011) the TWU Fleet and Ground Service Negotiations Committee is frustrated to report there has been no tentative agreement reached. The Company continues to demand what we believe to be a concessionary agreement.
 
There has been no future dates scheduled, and as always we will share information concerning future Mediation sessions, if any, as we receive them.
 
August 12, 2011 - It’s been nearly a year since mechanics and related employees turned down a tentative agreement with American Airlines.
 
It now appears that the National Mediation Board has put negotiations on ice, meaning that federal mediator Jack Kane will go away until he decides it’s worth having another mediation session.
Here’s how American Airlines put it on its aanegotiation.com website:

“At the end of the session, Mediator Kane told the two parties there had been insufficient progress made and the NMB did not think it was in the best interest of the parties to schedule further meetings, as it has been a year since the first tentative agreement failed ratification by the membership.”

 
On November 29, 2011....AA filed for BK.

 

[700UW]

And that was AA and the TWU.

Not US and the IAM and US told the NMB there were not negotiating anymore.

 

[WeAAsles]

You truly dont get it.
 
The only way the IAM will vote on a final offer is when the board releases both parties into the 30 day cooling off period.
 
Then it will be voting on the final offer and voting to strike.
 
There will be no vote on a final offer unless both parties are released.
 
How many NCs have you been on?
 
I have been on the M&R NC before and the NC for CO FAs.
 
We have been on strike in 92 and released into a 30 day cooling off period in 99.
 
This isnt AA nor the TWU.
 
There will be no JCBA negotiations until all three IAM groups at US get new Section 6 CBAs.

700 is there a reason that you feel my TWU brother needs to be singled out that his opinion would be wrong just because he is not IAM or Usair? I find that to be irrelevant since we were the last one's to deal with the current Presidential administration and NMB panel. That experiance should be taken into consideration.

Since I have came back to this Forum I have never once denigrated or belittled someone for being a part of the IAM as if they should be disregarded for that affiliation. We are all brothers aren't we? We are supposed to be a part of a larger partnership in the future as well aren't we?

I also believe that the TWU is obligated by the MOU with the company to file for SCS by the 6 month date. That MOU was between the company and the TWU exclusively and had no bearing on the association that was agreed to afterwards. What type of actions would be faced from the company if they reneged is questionable but they would have grounds. I also don't believe it would be a "Minor dispute" as it's pretty simple in it's language. File or break a contract.

 

 

[NYer]

The TWU never asked for a release, shall I PM Bob Owens to have him jog your  memory and use the correct facts? See the post above, with dates, which shows that the TWU did ask for a release and even conducted a strike vote.....
 
There will be no vote on final offer, that only occurs in a 30 day cooling off period. That will be up to the NMB, so we'll see if your theory proves correct.
 
This is the IAM and not the TWU, the IAM members at US are fed up and want a new CBA or they will use self-help when permitted. They will not be permitted. And as a reference the Members of the TWU, APFA and APA at AA were also fed up.
 
There has all ready been work safe during Thanksgiving and Christmas, ask CLTRAT who was there if you dont believe me.
 
US got mad at CLT Heavy as the overhauls werent making their ETRs so they farmed out a 757 as retaliation.
 
The NMB cannot force a vote on any union for a new CBA, they dont have that kind of power. You can convince yourself of that, but if you don't play under their rules they will just take the ball away. You'll be iced.
 
You are truly clueless on the process. We've had more experience with the process under the current conditions than yourself. It is a different industry, different political times and different economic times from the 1990's.
 
You are not an IAM member nor a US employee, you have no idea of what will happen. Don't have to be either to know what is coming.
 
I know almost everyone on the US M&R Committee and know several on the Fleet Committee, most of them are good friends of mine. Good for you, I'm sure they are nice people.