2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

 

The APFA and the TWU at AA have nothing to do with what is transpiring with US, the IAM and the NMB.
 
How come you cant understand that? The NMB doesn't make their decision based on the "needs" or "wants" of the particular union group. They are in place to safeguard the economy and the national commerce. Our concerns and our issues have absolutely no bearing on their decisions. Currently, Southwest and the TWU are also in mediation and they are not going to be released either.
 
Shall I post how the APFA, AMFA, and the IAM has been on strike before in the airlines? Please, let me. From 1947 to 1992 there were 159. From 1993 to 2014 there were 13...of those, there were 6 since 9/11 with only one being a major airline and that was NWA who's mechanics were replaced. (the others were Polar Air in 2005, World Airways in 2006, Petroleum Helicopters in 2006, AmeriJet in 2009 and Spirit in 2010)
 
You can post as much as you want about AA, its unions and the NMB, it has no regard to what is going on at US.
Apples and Oranges. US is AA and AA is US, their separate fortunes are now tied together.
 
US is financially sound, AA wasnt. The airlines finances are not the main priority of the NMB, it is the national economy.

 

I've disagreed with you almost entirely on your points, on facebook.  You were just a local guy but allowed access to NMB proceedings dealing with an airline in the midst of losing millions and millions of dollars.  While I don't agree that the NMB is going to rule on a release in the next two weeks, unlike you, I don't believe it is out of the question.  The reality of the situation is completely different than the case involving AMR as 700 confirmed.
 
At the end of the day, the solution will most likely be an agreement short of a strike but, for now, I'm uncomfortable discounting the present situation as much as you do regarding a release.  One big reason is also management.  I think US AIRWAYS management has been very clear that they are done negotiating. I think their arrogant stance will possibly be counterproductive and may actually favor the IAM regarding any NMB release determination.
 
That said, what was the stance of AMR management when you guys were going through all of this?

 

[WeAAsles]

wrong.  700 is right on this.

So after about a 1000 comments you've made so far regarding the TWU being forced to file or face severe penalties, now you think you were wrong? lol 

 

[700UW]

The Transport Workers, not the NMB.
 
A strike vote, not a vote on the CBA.
 
Facing pressure is not a law.
 
Show me where in the RLA the NMB can force the union to vote on a CBA.
 
Nyer
 
How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?

 

[700UW]

Wow,
 
Has hell frozen over? LOL.
 
Tim and I agree on something.
 
Wonders never cease, lol!

 

[Tim Nelson]

So after about a 1000 comments you've made so far regarding the TWU being forced to file or face severe penalties, now you think you were wrong? lol 

700 is right about the MOU as far as it being a part of the CBA.  The way I understand your point is that you look at the MOU separately from a collective bargaining agreement.  The fact that your union decided not to let you vote on it has nothing to do with its legal standing.

 

[roabilly]

So after about a 1000 comments you've made so far regarding the TWU being forced to file or face severe penalties, now you think you were wrong? lol 

I've been biting my tongue... I'm attempting to stay away from bashing Tim, but damn... he's been drilling that into us for weeks...
 
Now... he agrees with us!?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Wow,
 
Has hell frozen over? LOL.
 
Tim and I agree on something.
 
Wonders never cease, lol!

We agree on a lot of things.  We talk about the things we don't agree on mostly.

 

[NYer]

I've disagreed with you almost entirely on your points, on facebook.  You were just a local guy but allowed access to NMB proceedings dealing with an airline in the midst of losing millions and millions of dollars.  While I don't agree that the NMB is going to rule on a release in the next two weeks, unlike you, I don't believe it is out of the question.  The reality of the situation is completely different than the case involving AMR as 700 confirmed.
 
At the end of the day, the solution will most likely be an agreement short of a strike but, for now, I'm uncomfortable discounting the present situation as much as you do regarding a release.  One big reason is also management.  I think US AIRWAYS management has been very clear that they are done negotiating. I think their arrogant stance will possibly be counterproductive and may actually favor the IAM regarding any NMB release determination.
 
That said, what was the stance of AMR management when you guys were going through all of this?

 
You guys keep making arguments about how the NMB will somehow pick a side over another. They are not there to mend fences between the two parties. They are not there to make judgements on the others' behavior. They are there to safeguard the economy and if they have to keep everyone on ice indefinitely in order to achieve that, they will. At some point, there is a realization that the only way out of that process is by making a deal.
 
All these other smoke screens about arrogance, fairness or any other words that reflect some type of emotion is not part of the their equation. The longer it takes to realize that, the further away the deal becomes.

 

[700UW]

Fair enough.

 

[NYer]

The Transport Workers, not the NMB.
 
A strike vote, not a vote on the CBA.
 
Facing pressure is not a law.
 
Show me where in the RLA the NMB can force the union to vote on a CBA.
 
Nyer
 
How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?

 
I guess time will tell, right .

 

[700UW]

 
You guys keep making arguments about how the NMB will somehow pick a side over another. They are not there to mend fences between the two parties. They are not there to make judgements on the others' behavior. They are there to safeguard the economy and if they have to keep everyone on ice indefinitely in order to achieve that, they will. At some point, there is a realization that the only way out of that process is by making a deal.
 
All these other smoke screens about arrogance, fairness or any other words that reflect some type of emotion is not part of the their equation. The longer it takes to realize that, the further away the deal becomes.

Wrong.

 

NMB Mission and Key Functions
 
The National Mediation Board (NMB), established by the 1934 amendments to the Railway Labor Act of 1926, is an independent agency that performs a central role in facilitating harmonious labor-management relations within two of the nation's key transportation modes--the railroads and airlines. Pursuant to the Railway Labor Act, NMB programs provide an integrated dispute resolution process to effectively meet the statutory objective of minimizing work stoppages in the airline and railroad industries. The NMB's integrated processes specifically are designed to promote three statutory goals:

• The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements;
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• The effectuation of employee rights of self-organization where a representation dispute exists; and
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• The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes over the interpretation or application of existing agreements.

Mediation
The purpose of mediation under the Railway Labor Act is to foster the prompt and orderly resolution of collective bargaining disputes in the railroad and airline industries. These disputes, referred to as "major" disputes, involve the establishment or revision of rates of pay, rules, or working conditions. The parties should attempt to resolve collective bargaining disputes through direct negotiations. Failing that, either party may request the Board's services or the Board may involve itself on its own initiative. In its mediatory role, the Board may employ a variety of methods, including traditional mediation, interest-based problem solving, or facilitation. The Board views the objective of mediation as assistance to the parties in achieving agreement and sees the role of the mediator as an active participant in the process as a key to that assistance.
 
NMB expertise in mediation and its discretion to determine when mediation has been exhausted, however, ensures that bargaining disputes rarely escalate into disruptions of passenger service and the transportation of commerce. Historically, some 97 percent of all NMB mediation cases have been successfully resolved without interruptions to public service. Since 1980, only slightly more than 1 percent of cases have involved a disruption of service.
 
Presidential Emergency Boards
In rare situations, when a disruption of essential transportation services, which meets the standards specified by the RLA, the NMB may notify that the President, and he may at his discretion, create a Presidential Emergency Board. A Presidential Emergency Board temporarily delays a work stoppage or a lock out for up to sixty days and provides recommendations for resolving the dispute.
 
Representation
Under the Railway Labor Act, the NMB is responsible for effectuating employee rights of self-organization where a representation dispute exists. The NMB representation process ensures that potentially disruptive disputes over who represents employees for collective bargaining purposes are resolved peacefully. Peaceful resolution of representation disputes is crucial to the airline and railroad industries because of the central role they play in the U.S. transportation system. The NMB's effective determination of collective bargaining representation enhances the stability of collective bargaining in the railroad and airline industries
The primary representation dispute responsibilities of the NMB are as follows:

• Conduct initial investigation of representation applications
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• Determine and certify collective bargaining representatives of employees
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• Ensure that the process occurs without interference, influence or coercion

Arbitration
Under the Railway Labor Act, employee grievances arising under the terms of collective bargaining agreements (minor disputes) are subject to compulsory arbitration. Effective arbitration processes are therefore necessary to resolve such disputes.
 
Alternative Dispute Resolution and Dispute Prevention Activities
The NMB's voluntary alternative dispute resolution and dispute prevention activities consist of training and education including facilitated problem solving (interest-based bargaining) and pre-dispute mediation, and grievance mediation services. The overall goal is to help the parties bring about a positive change in the collective bargaining culture in the railroad and airline industries and achieve a more timely resolution of disputes. To help achieve a positive change in bargaining culture at a time of increasingly complex negotiations, the NMB initiated a training and facilitation process to assist the parties in undertaking innovative negotiation and dispute resolution approaches. In addition to training offered by the Board to the parties, the Board has undertaken a continuing education program for its professional staff to ensure that all staff receive practitioner-oriented classroom and on-the-job training in communications and conflict management, consensual decision making, group problem solving, interest-based and traditional bargaining, and grievance mediation.
Further information concerning the National Mediation Board and the Railway Labor Act is available on the NMB web page (www.nmb.gov) or by calling (202) 692-5000 and asking for Mediation or ADR.
 

MEDIATION

NMB Responsibilities and Activities
 
NMB's statutory authority as national mediator for the airline and railroad industries is critical to public interest in maintaining an uninterrupted flow of U.S. Commerce. Strikes, lock-outs, and other forms of self help in these industries may occur only after the NMB has determined that further mediation would not be successful and after a cooling-off period of 30 days following NMB release from mediation.
 
When a significant disruption of essential transportation becomes unavoidable, the NMB so notifies the President of the United States. When the NMB notifies the President that a collective bargaining dispute threatens to deprive a significant portion of the country of essential transportation services, the President may appoint an Emergency Board.
 
An Emergency Board temporarily delays a potential work stoppage and provides recommendations on potential resolution of the dispute. NMB expertise in mediation and its discretion to determine when it is that mediation has been exhausted, however, ensures that bargaining disputes rarely escalate into disruptions of passenger service and the transportation of commerce.
 
97% of all mediation cases in the history of the NMB have been successfully resolved without interruptions to Public Service. Since 1980, the success rate has been nearly 99 percent.
 

 

[700UW]

 
I guess time will tell, right .

How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?

All ready asked you once.
 
How many 30 day cooling off periods have you been in?
 
How many strikes have you been in?
 
Once again,

Where in the RLA does it state the NMB can force a union to vote on a CBA?

 

[WeAAsles]

I've been biting my tongue... I'm attempting to stay away from bashing Tim, but damn... he's been drilling that into us for weeks...
 
Now... he agrees with us!?

Well remember the moment Roa because you're right. He just back-peddled with 4 words on something he's been saying over and over and over. You think it's because I basically agreed with him?

 

[roabilly]

Well remember the moment Roa because you're right. He just back-peddled with 4 words on something he's been saying over and over and over. You think it's because I basically agreed with him?

I saved it to a word file-- its right beside of Joshes admission that Bankruptcy caused most of the issues that we went through, and NOT the IAM!

 

[NYer]

Wrong.
 

 
"NMB's statutory authority as national mediator for the airline and railroad industries is critical to public interest in maintaining an uninterrupted flow of U.S. Commerce."
 
Try again.