2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

The RLA is made to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce.
 
PMUS is the 5th largest airline, not #1, they wont stop interstate commerce.
 
And why are you avoiding answering the question I have asked of you?
 

 
How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?
 
How many 30 day cooling off periods have you been in?
 
How many strikes have you been in?
 
Where in the RLA does it state the NMB can force a union to vote on a CBA?
 
 

And there have been strikes, and going into a 30 day cooling off period doesnt mean a strike is going to happen, there can be a settlement or a PEB.

 

[NYer]

How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?
All ready asked you once.
 
How many 30 day cooling off periods have you been in?
 
How many strikes have you been in?
 
Once again,
Where in the RLA does it state the NMB can force a union to vote on a CBA?

 
The beauty of this process is that time and the events themselves will show the relevancy of the posts and lend towards the credibility of those that made the posts. Trying to show that your business card is bigger than my business card doesn't make your point of view correct or incorrect. That will become clear as time passes and the events unfold.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
"NMB's statutory authority as national mediator for the airline and railroad industries is critical to public interest in maintaining an uninterrupted flow of U.S. Commerce."
 
Try again.

That may explain the 99% success rate? Bet you'd never find a lawyer that good.

 

[700UW]

 
The beauty of this process is that time and the events themselves will show the relevancy of the posts and lend towards the credibility of those that made the posts. Trying to show that your business card is bigger than my business card doesn't make your point of view correct or incorrect. That will become clear as time passes and the events unfold.

How many Negotiating Committees have you been on?

 
How many 30 day cooling off periods have you been in?
 
How many strikes have you been in?

Where in the RLA does it state the NMB can force a union to vote on a CBA?
 
It shows experience and knowledge, are you scared to answer?

 

[roabilly]

 
The beauty of this process is that time and the events themselves will show the relevancy of the posts and lend towards the credibility of those that made the posts. Trying to show that your business card is bigger than my business card doesn't make your point of view correct or incorrect. That will become clear as time passes and the events unfold.

You are correct that future events will determine the validity of all speculation. However, I implore everyone reading here that regards themselves as a knowledgeable practitioner of unionism, to pay VERY close attention to how this does play-out, all the way to whatever ultimately brings Fleet to a CBA.
 
Make notes, and keep them for future reference as they become “case history”.

 

[NYer]

The RLA is made to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce.
 
PMUS is the 5th largest airline, not #1, they wont stop interstate commerce. They were the 5th biggest airline, now we're #1. The technicalities of having separate Single Operators Certificate is not going to fly with the NMB, especially as time passes and the airlines become more and more integrated.
 
And why are you avoiding answering the question I have asked of you? You yourself have made a point of trying to diminish my contributions by stating that the TWU and AA are separate from US and the IAM, implying these are separate issues and irrelevant to each other. If you believe that, what does it matter what my credentials may or may not be.
 
And there have been strikes, and going into a 30 day cooling off period doesn't mean a strike is going to happen, there can be a settlement or a PEB. Sure, but they are not going to risk it. There is no point in getting a 30 day cooling off period if it doesn't include the threat of a strike, right.

 

[NYer]

 
How many Negotiating Committees have you been on? 0

 
How many 30 day cooling off periods have you been in? 0
 
How many strikes have you been in? 0

Where in the RLA does it state the NMB can force a union to vote on a CBA? Nowhere does it mention any of the "techniques" they use.
 
It shows experience and knowledge, are you scared to answer? No

 

 
Did you prove something?

 

[700UW]

 

The RLA is made to prevent the stoppage of interstate commerce.
 
PMUS is the 5th largest airline, not #1, they wont stop interstate commerce. They were the 5th biggest airline, now we're #1. The technicalities of having separate Single Operators Certificate is not going to fly with the NMB, especially as time passes and the airlines become more and more integrated.
 
And why are you avoiding answering the question I have asked of you? You yourself have made a point of trying to diminish my contributions by stating that the TWU and AA are separate from US and the IAM, implying these are separate issues and irrelevant to each other. If you believe that, what does it matter what my credentials may or may not be.
 
And there have been strikes, and going into a 30 day cooling off period doesn't mean a strike is going to happen, there can be a settlement or a PEB. Sure, but they are not going to risk it. There is no point in getting a 30 day cooling off period if it doesn't include the threat of a strike, right.

 

US is the 5th largest airline, the airlines are not combined and the PMAA employees wont be going on strike as you are not in Section 6 negotiations.
 
The single operating certificate means nothing in regards to PMUS and the section 6 negotiations and the possible strike, US and AA are not combined and neither are the workforces.
 
How do you know that the NMB wont release the IAM, you have provided one iota of facts to back that up.  You werent at the NMB nor in the meetings,now were you?

 

[700UW]

 
Did you prove something?

I proved your lack of actual experience in the matter.
 
Where I and others lived it.
 
And like I said the RLA does not give the NMB the authority to force a union to vote on a CBA, but once again you sidestep the question.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I proved your lack of actual experience in the matter.
 
Where I and others lived it.
 
And like I said the RLA does not give the NMB the authority to force a union to vote on a CBA, but once again you sidestep the question.

Over the last year he has been saying that the NMB will not allow any strike due to AMR being the #1 airline.  In fact, he actually even guaranteed it on FB.  However, he really doesn't understand the single carrier status and that is his fatal flaw. He thinks that even though the NMB doesn't even have a single carrier application for this merger, that the NMB will anticipate and make a 'pre-emptive' decision by further delaying our #5 stand alone talks into #1 joint talks.   While I tend to agree that a release won't come soon, I find it highly improbable that the NMB is playing games like he suggest.  If Wikileaks is accurate, then why would the NMB ask the union for its "Final Offer" or is the NMB just blowing smoke up everyone's ass like he suggest?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I've been biting my tongue... I'm attempting to stay away from bashing Tim, but damn... he's been drilling that into us for weeks...
 
Now... he agrees with us!?

If you knew how to read, you would have a better understanding, unless of course you are just being Roabilly again.  I knew it wouldn't take you more than a couple hours.

 

[NYer]

US is the 5th largest airline, the airlines are not combined and the PMAA employees wont be going on strike as you are not in Section 6 negotiations. Correct. Yet, under that premise the 5th largest airline is asking the NMB to release them because they can't get a contract comparable to the 4th largest airline. In turn, the NMB will tell the IAM that they're getting a fair deal and if they want a better one they will get it once US and AA become the largest airline in the world with the combined resources and revenue to achieve that status.
 
The single operating certificate means nothing in regards to PMUS and the section 6 negotiations and the possible strike, US and AA are not combined and neither are the workforces. The Merger matters because the finances of both airlines are becoming intertwined and what affects one can have an affect on the other. It matters because the Merger and the AA bankruptcy are also intertwined and the Feds will not allow even a snif of a 30 day cooling off period because it would obviously affect the stock price and in turn the recovery of the creditors as they still receiving the equity they were awarded and is meant to pa back their debts.
 
How do you know that the NMB wont release the IAM, you have provided one iota of facts to back that up.  You werent at the NMB nor in the meetings,now were you? No, I wasn't. On the other hand you don't have one iota of fact to back up your claims either. What I do have is the track record and tendencies which came out of the AA and AE trek through the same process. It is the same presidential administration facing the same political atmosphere, which lends towards the decision of a release. It is the same NMB workforce, which made their position perfectly clear. You lived through the process in the 1990's. I lived through the process two years ago....We'll soon see the relevancy of that experience.

 

[NYer]

I proved your lack of actual experience in the matter.
 
Where I and others lived it.
 
And like I said the RLA does not give the NMB the authority to force a union to vote on a CBA, but once again you sidestep the question.

 
OK. Then it would be a shame if someone with such a lack of experience were able to show the path that will be taken over an experienced person that "lived it" and should know better.
 
It seems I'm playing with the casino's money.
 
BTW, didn't side step the question but if you have the experience you portray to have then you also know that there are things that happen in those NMB offices in Washington that are not specifically spelled out in any document. Talk to some of the TWU Presidents that were present when the Tentative Agreement was brought back to the Members in 2010. After Jim Little found out about the coercion tactic employed by the Mediator, he "pulled" the TA and it was not put out for a vote.

 

[700UW]

The NMB doesnt declare if a deal is fair or not, they only decide if one there is an impasse.
 
And why do you think they asked for a Final Offer?
 
Its apparent you dont understand what a final offer is.
 
The NMB doesnt involve itself in stock prices, I mean come on, you are really reaching.
 
And the New AA has over $10 billion in the bank, the agreed to new raises for all unionized groups at AA, and not at US.
 
You have no track record, unless you call fearmongering a track record.
 
I have lived it, I have negotiating against the same people that are currently negotiating for US management.
 
And that was when AA was in trouble, they arent now.
 
What else are you going to throw out against the wall to see what sticks?

 

[Tim Nelson]

The NMB doesnt declare if a deal is fair or not, they only decide if one there is an impasse.
 
And why do you think they asked for a Final Offer?
 
Its apparent you dont understand what a final offer is.
 
The NMB doesnt involve itself in stock prices, I mean come on, you are really reaching.
 
And the New AA has over $10 billion in the bank, the agreed to new raises for all unionized groups at AA, and not at US.
 
You have no track record, unless you call fearmongering a track record.
 
I have lived it, I have negotiating against the same people that are currently negotiating for US management.
 
And that was when AA was in trouble, they arent now.
 
What else are you going to throw out against the wall to see what sticks?

He was really hammering home that stock price on facebook.  Although the NMB doesn't make decisions based on stock price like he portrays, if it did, it would issue a release because the stock price has been off the charts. lol
The reality of the situation is that he has those stock options and he doesn't want to see the stock price go down. From his perspective I can understand why he insist for IAM members to just take what is on the table.