2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

You dont even know him nor worked with him nor ever met him.
 
You are in no position to judge his character.
 
What he did in 91/92 caused irreparable harm to the members that they have never been able to recover from.
 
So go stalk and be obsessed with someone else besides me.
 
So you will let the 141 members decide yet you criticize me for saying that the UA members voted and ratified their CBA.
 
You are such a hypocrite.

 

[737823]

So you will let the 141 members decide yet you criticize me for saying that the UA members voted and ratified their CBA.

Only after the members were mislead and there was rampant voter apathy but yes it did pass and now people are seeing the dangerous implications of the POS agreement.

Josh

 

[700UW]

If people cant read and comprehend and dont do their own fact finding, then shame on them.

 

[roabilly]

Tim,
 
All I can say is that we were willing to close the gap and got a big eff u from the Company, they are dead set at offering anything other than what they have offered, a POS. 
 
On a side note, everything you post on the subject makes me think you are having conversations with AH, you were originally telling us to hold the line and be patient and don't panic, now for the last several weeks you post as though you are getting the Company side and arguing against us. I don't know, just a gut feeling on that.  
 
And for the record, you make valid points on some issues and I do hear you. I am not out to get Timmy. I have told you before that you are intelligent but use it in a negative way which divides this membership.
 
Calling it as I see it.
 
P. Rez

BINGO! I 100% concur!

 

[roabilly]

You dont even know him nor worked with him nor ever met him.
 
You are in no position to judge his character.
 
What he did in 91/92 caused irreparable harm to the members that they have never been able to recover from.
 
So go stalk and be obsessed with someone else besides me.
 
So you will let the 141 members decide yet you criticize me for saying that the UA members voted and ratified their CBA.
 
You are such a hypocrite.

I'm pretty sure that a personal endorsement from Josh is the kiss of death for someone politically!

 

[T5towbar]

So I haven't been here in like a week.  Can someone summarize the last 100 or so pages?  Feel free to skip the 700/Tim posts as well as the Tim/Josh posts.

You didn't miss much.
Bottom line is that in so many words, how our bad UA contract will/maybe directly or indirectly affect your negotiations for improvements, and who will file for Joint Carrier first. Both sides have dug in. (The IAM has to because of the failure of the UA contract. They dare not offer you guys the same thing we got.)

 

[T5towbar]

Only after the members were mislead and there was rampant voter apathy but yes it did pass and now people are seeing the dangerous implications of the POS agreement.

Josh

There may have been some voter apathy (especially on the sCO side. We've (sCO) been known to be very apathetic in reference to political matters, being that some felt like they weren't going to be affected in any way, since they have/had enough time in to ride it out). I (myself) knew differently after the first whack when we lost our Cargo, and junior people had to leave. It was about the thousands of dollars that some sUA members was to get. They were tired of waiting. And I'll bet a lot was attracted by LOA #5. Why else was this LOA was put into this contract? (The supporters still won't answer this). I keep harping on this because I feel that a lot of people bought this. And LOA #6 is the same thing since people wanted to move into those potential openings.

Now everybody is feeling it. And most will be paying dearly........
Please don't make the same mistake!

 

[737823]

It's very unfortunate. But like everything in life, you have to read things carefully and never make a rash decision-the devil is in the details. Hopefully this will be a good lesson to the UA members and UA will be in a stronger position come ratification. At the very least you guys should push for indefinite protection for the stations with cinderella dates and try and bring more work in house. Maybe by then UA will see outsourcing costs more in the long run and pax are defecting because they don't like it either.

Josh

 

[T5towbar]

It's very unfortunate. But like everything in life, you have to read things carefully and never make a rash decision-the devil is in the details. Hopefully this will be a good lesson to the UA members and UA will be in a stronger position come ratification. At the very least you guys should push for indefinite protection for the stations with cinderella dates and try and bring more work in house. Maybe by then UA will see outsourcing costs more in the long run and pax are defecting because they don't like it either.

Josh

I hope so.
The company is top heavy with management, and they are making very poor decisions right now. They are trying to cut their way to profitability, but mistakes are happening and a lot is not working with new procedures and other things. The SHARES fiasco has really hurt, with the defection of some high value customers. All of the "consultants" running around trying to fix things that weren't broken abound. (they have to "justify" their cost and worth), but is affecting the performance of the front line.

The loss of revenue from cargo is one.

Those of us who survive this will definitely remember, and press our District (and LL leadership) not to make the same mistakes. (I hope............)

 

[WeAAsles]

There may have been some voter apathy (especially on the sCO side. We've (sCO) been known to be very apathetic in reference to political matters, being that some felt like they weren't going to be affected in any way, since they have/had enough time in to ride it out). I (myself) knew differently after the first whack when we lost our Cargo, and junior people had to leave. It was about the thousands of dollars that some sUA members was to get. They were tired of waiting. And I'll bet a lot was attracted by LOA #5. Why else was this LOA was put into this contract? (The supporters still won't answer this). I keep harping on this because I feel that a lot of people bought this. And LOA #6 is the same thing since people wanted to move into those potential openings.

Now everybody is feeling it. And most will be paying dearly........
Please don't make the same mistake!

T5 I'm curious. Out of those stations that UAL has said may be closed, what is the average number of members being affected in each station? The stations that closed due to changes within our BK averaged when I looked at the time between 10 to 30 members.

What I very much do not like is weak or no PT protection language. The one thing I kept telling my members here (AA) was what difference does $25 or $26 per hour make if you are only guaranteed PT hours and you pay double for medical. Our PTers were going to pay double until we received the 3% "Me Too"  thanks to the Pilots whittling down there concessions from 20% to 17% and it was reverted back to them paying the same as a FTer.

If you give the company a financial incentive to have more PTers they will find a way to take full advantage of that no matter what types of protections are in your CBA. They will reach maximum allowance.

In our stations as of now there is no station that has reached that maximum allowance against our caps. The operation guides the shift needs rather than cost savings.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Union-led airline strikes are rare in the U.S, as a result of the Railway Labor Act, which allows the president to essentially order workers back on the job if their action could harm the national transportation system and commerce. When invoked, the executive branch order creates an emergency board to investigate the dispute and help oversee negotiations. In February 1997, President Clinton intervened to keep 9,000 American Airlines (AAL) pilots from striking. Four years later, President Bush established such a board to prevent mechanics at Northwest Airlines from going on strike. Pilots at Spirit Airlines (SAVE) staged a five-day strike in 2010.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-31/lufthansa-prepares-for-fallout-from-a-big-pilot-strike?campaign_id=yhoo

 

[T5towbar]

T5 I'm curious. Out of those stations that UAL has said may be closed, what is the average number of members being affected in each station? The stations that closed due to changes within our BK averaged when I looked at the time between 10 to 30 members.

What I very much do not like is weak or no PT protection language. The one thing I kept telling my members here (AA) was what difference does $25 or $26 per hour make if you are only guaranteed PT hours and you pay double for medical. Our PTers were going to pay double until we received the 3% "Me Too"  thanks to the Pilots whittling down there concessions from 20% to 17% and it was reverted back to them paying the same as a FTer.

If you give the company a financial incentive to have more PTers they will find a way to take full advantage of that no matter what types of protections are in your CBA. They will reach maximum allowance.

In our stations as of now there is no station that has reached that maximum allowance against our caps. The operation guides the shift needs rather than cost savings.

I"m not sure on the numbers. Some of the smaller stations have members that are cross-utilized. Those members work both ATW and BTW. But you have to figure there are members above and below in each Tier 3 stations that are being cut. Those cross members were considered PCE instead of RSE. That's why those members met the out package, instead of RSE. By 2016, all of Tier 3 will be gone. The goals is now to save Tier 2; Stop the downgrading to PT; and keep the existing Express work in the hubs that presently do it. IMHO, that should be some of the goals in the next contract. I think that since the regional pilots have started an uprising against their low pay and the removal of the 50 seaters, if they are flying 76 to 100 seats, we should be doing that work. Who know what '16 will bring, but I hope it will be for the better.

The union likes this deal as well because it doubles the duespayers. You get a two for one. No dues dispensation here, all members pay the same. No loss there for the union. Both parties win, but the employee loses.

 

[rockit2]

you know what tim,  I think personally that our members have had enough of the sh!t fits that got HAL and UAL and not only that but theyre standing their ground  the NC Team is doing exactly that and may be  just may be it will be enough for the NMB to say to the donkeys that "we are going to go ahead and release both IAM groups together given that we are at an impasse"      I believe we as members of the 141  and I believe members of 142 have never been more prepared to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH      F  THIS F...KIN PLACE   
 
secondly Tim,  even if its Donkey Drunken Dope Headed Parker and drug gang idea that may be they are trying their best to get rid of the IAM never expecting the TWU to join forces with the IAM  and now theyre like in the ICU with a heavy dose of the drug withdrawal that they have no brains to figure the next step  and therefore theyre just waiting n waiting to see how far they can shove the NMB  and may be the NMB sees that now.  
 
So  I think as does many of the current members here and in the system believe that as of now our team has our backs.    Theres a reason why the IAM has the head of the house for the first 2 plus yrs 

I don't here the membership talking about anything, at least at my station. What are they saying in the hubs. Most are robots, they come to work and are not even aware of what is going on.

 

[rockit2]

I been saying that for over a month, I totally agree Pat.

Why wou AL be talking to Tim, he has no position?

 

[700UW]

Why wou AL be talking to Tim, he has no position?

Divide and conquer.
 
Create hate and discontent.
 
Why else would Tim deliberately leave out facts and make stuff up?