2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

So why don't you question josh, he doesn't have any connection to US.

...ohhh... this one's easy... because josh supports Tim?!

 

[mike33]

"33"
 
I know you are not too fond of 700 right now, but I will tell you this... he does know his stuff when it comes to negotiations, grievances, and union business. I know him, and has been an excellent representative in the past, as well as a respected instructor at my local in CLT.

Thats good to know Roa ! He represents the past though and that irritates me, but I'm over it like i said.....

 

[roabilly]

Thats good to know Roa ! He represents the past though and that irritates me, but I'm over it like i said.....

I understand the past tense. However-- ALL of the same laws, regulations, and procedures that existed then, are still in place today, and will remain in place well into the future...
 
Unless of course, Rand Paul is successful with the National Right to Work Act!

 

[ChockJockey]

...or cats on kitty crack!
 
Your observation is exactly what's wrong with this group... too many armchair negotiators, and way too much political rhetoric. The Company probably reads this stuff daily and celebrates with a little happy dance! 

 
I think the company would prefer we not discuss and certainly not think about these things at all; they don't want us chattering, they want complacency.  If these forums are as influential as you suggest, I have to wonder what a difference it would have made to the UA guys and their TA and its aftermath if they'd had a fleet service thread as vigorous and active as ours, even if 80% of it is egoistic circle-jerking from the usual suspects.
 
Some people are afraid of opposing opinions, and feel that they should be stamped out, that those who present them should be ostracized and persecuted and that the membership should be protected from certain ideas or trains of thought lest they be tempted to think for themselves.  I don't think that's democratic.  I think people should be free to speak as they wish and others should be free to use their own judgment to consider what they hear and who is saying it, since there is no one here who doesn't have their own set of interests and no one here with a monopoly on the truth.
 
I think the more and greater variety of things we discuss the better off we are, and the more prepared we are to deal with events as they occur.

 

[Kev3188]

+1

 

[roabilly]

 
I think the company would prefer we not discuss and certainly not think about these things at all; they don't want us chattering, they want complacency.  If these forums are as influential as you suggest, I have to wonder what a difference it would have made to the UA guys and their TA and its aftermath if they'd had a fleet service thread as vigorous and active as ours, even if 80% of it is egoistic circle-jerking from the usual suspects.
 
Some people are afraid of opposing opinions, and feel that they should be stamped out, that those who present them should be ostracized and persecuted and that the membership should be protected from certain ideas or trains of thought lest they be tempted to think for themselves.  I don't think that's democratic.  I think people should be free to speak as they wish and others should be free to use their own judgment to consider what they hear and who is saying it, since there is no one here who doesn't have their own set of interests and no one here with a monopoly on the truth.
 
I think the more and greater variety of things we discuss the better off we are, and the more prepared we are to deal with events as they occur.

There is no way I could disagree with any of that..
 
...but we have to use all of the tools in our tool box to achieve it. This means voting for parties that support labor on the national level.... participating in unionism by getting involved at the local level... and ensuring that democracy is not corrupted with disinformation in the political process within the union. As I have said... the membership has the power to vote down any agreement that is inferior. We do not have to worry about an agreement getting shoved down our throats, we have the legal right to say NO!
 
Let 6 go the full distance with the current team, and if we aren't happy-- take it to PEB or Congressional intervention, By then, it would be headline news...
 
Can't you see the front page of the NY Times business section... "Worlds Largest Airline teeters on brink of lengthy strike"?

 

[Tim Nelson]

There is no way I could disagree with any of that..
 
...but we have to use all of the tools in our tool box to achieve it. This means voting for parties that support labor on the national level.... participating in unionism by getting involved at the local level... and ensuring that democracy is not corrupted with disinformation in the political process within the union. As I have said... the membership has the power to vote down any agreement that is inferior. We do not have to worry about an agreement getting shoved down our throats, we have the legal right to say NO!
 
Let 6 go the full distance with the current team, and if we aren't happy-- take it to PEB or Congressional intervention, By then, it would be headline news...
 
Can't you see the front page of the NY Times business section... "Worlds Largest Airline teeters on brink of lengthy strike"?

did i miss something? None of us will have the power to change the nc regardless of politics. Im not to thrilled with that since proposing only a two year agreement that doesnt even ask for amr wages at dos is shameful. The scope better be expanded as well.
And these forums have kept things accountable. Without the forum im convinced we would be hosed even more. Before we straigthened out your boys, they wrre preaching that we were too small as a 5th biggest airline and had more strength in transition talks.
enuf talk though. Its time to stop running to management cutting deals by getting mutual cobsent to waive time limits. Time to put down the little AH kool aid kit and start enforcing the ta. I understand you and the others dont want to spend the unions money but it makes no sense to pay dues if wd dont enforce the current contract.
your boys showed that they cant stand up to delaney so they played politics and endorsed a united ta that scorched more iam jobs than ronald reagon.

 

[roabilly]

did i miss something? None of us will have the power to change the nc regardless of politics. Im not to thrilled with that since proposing only a two year agreement that doesnt even ask for amr wages at dos is shameful. The scope better be expanded as well.
And these forums have kept things accountable. Without the forum im convinced we would be hosed even more. Before we straigthened out your boys, they wrre preaching that we were too small as a 5th biggest airline and had more strength in transition talks.
enuf talk though. Its time to stop running to management cutting deals by getting mutual cobsent to waive time limits. Time to put down the little AH kool aid kit and start enforcing the ta. I understand you and the others dont want to spend the unions money but it makes no sense to pay dues if wd dont enforce the current contract.
your boys showed that they cant stand up to delaney so they played politics and endorsed a united ta that scorched more iam jobs than ronald reagon.

My boys? Hell, you're the one that spearheaded the effort to place them in office!
 
You openly call CB a liar, and bash the N/C while you have no clue whats been proposed do you? If you do know... how do you know? Is it from AH as 700 claims?

 

[P. REZ]

did i miss something? None of us will have the power to change the nc regardless of politics. Im not to thrilled with that since proposing only a two year agreement that doesnt even ask for amr wages at dos is shameful. The scope better be expanded as well.
And these forums have kept things accountable. Without the forum im convinced we would be hosed even more. Before we straigthened out your boys, they wrre preaching that we were too small as a 5th biggest airline and had more strength in transition talks.
enuf talk though. Its time to stop running to management cutting deals by getting mutual cobsent to waive time limits. Time to put down the little AH kool aid kit and start enforcing the ta. I understand you and the others dont want to spend the unions money but it makes no sense to pay dues if wd dont enforce the current contract.
your boys showed that they cant stand up to delaney so they played politics and endorsed a united ta that scorched more iam jobs than ronald reagon.

Tim,
 
I stated what is going on with my grievances, so why are you still bashing? I don't waive timelines. I resolve or withdraw, some I hold for investigation. My goal is to win every grievance every time but the reality is some I can't win. I write close out letters too. Tim, if you have issues I will listen to your concerns in person and address and respond to you the resolutions. Then if you get elected you can continue to pursue the issues. Tim, I am not against scrutiny and will take that and grow. PM me if you want my number to meet and discuss what you would like addressed. The last thing I want to do is not listen to concerns or be above criticism. Stop the attacking and talk, I'll listen. 
 
P. Rez

 

[ograc]

Here is how I see it...
 
Prior to joining the IAM, we were getting outsourced, stripped of seniority rights, forced to accept part-time, forced to accept pay reductions, and getting fired without just cause. All of this took place as represented groups kept their jobs, and were awarded contractual raises along with career advancement by seniority...
 
After becoming a represented group, these travesties were arrested and reversed until the following...
 
The Company used a legal tactic (Twice) with Corporate Bankruptcy laws designed to crush Organized Labor.
 
We are now finally in the end game of section 6 talks outside of BK, and there are those that want to change leadership yet again at this critical time. They claim to base their motives on wanting to facilitate the process of asserting a better agreement than those that are currently holding office could obtain...
 
So... YES-- there are those on here that actually WANT to divide the Membership...
 
As to WHY... anyone with reasonable intelligence could figure that out!
 
Double Down... Lock -N- Load!
 
P.S. Are you running this time? if so who is on your ticket?
 
P.S.S. I remember VH... he would be screamin' SHUT UM DOWN!

Not running this time. Not asked to by either slate. being from a small station I guess both slates feel I wouldn't produce enough potential votes to contribute to a planned win. I get it. It's a numbers game, politics and the pursuit of potential votes. On the other hand... this thought process does not always produce the best candidates on either side. VH was a true unionist. He would indeed be screamin' SHUT EM DOWN! Even back then there were opposition candidates portraying him as too extreme. Opposition candidates who promised to do a better job. opposition candidates who successfully mislead the membership and as a result the Teamsters were decertified. Times have changed. Our bargaining representative has changed. District Leadership Teams with the IAM have changed. As a result of this continual dissention among the membership our working conditions have changed as well. Unfortunately, it has not been a positive change but a collective negative change. There are many contributing factors to our collective decline that have nothing to do with our union. Going forward... I hope we will finally recognize this and quit blaming our union leadership for it all. Don't get me wrong; those elected officials who fail in their duty to represent should be called out and voted out. I only hope that we can unite for the common good. For our solidarity is about to be tested with the merger. I think there are a lot of members ready to LOCK and LOAD. Is the IAM? Will the NMB ever allow the members to legally take economic action? This is one of the contributing factors, of our collective decline, I was referring to. A change in leadership does not change this contributing factor.    

 

[ograc]

You are deceiving the membership the average arbitration takes two years or more to be heard. You are lying to the members.

A reality. This average time has existed for many years and different leadership teams. Yet, focusing more on a settlement or pushing a legit grievance to the "Black Hole" or "Bermuda Triangle" is not my idea of legit representation either.    

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
I stated what is going on with my grievances, so why are you still bashing? I don't waive timelines. I resolve or withdraw, some I hold for investigation. My goal is to win every grievance every time but the reality is some I can't win. I write close out letters too. Tim, if you have issues I will listen to your concerns in person and address and respond to you the resolutions. Then if you get elected you can continue to pursue the issues. Tim, I am not against scrutiny and will take that and grow. PM me if you want my number to meet and discuss what you would like addressed. The last thing I want to do is not listen to concerns or be above criticism. Stop the attacking and talk, I'll listen. 
 
P. Rez

Ive already told you to start putting out the quarterly grievance reports to the local chairpersons as the bylaws say. Who is waiving the time limits if you dont? Delaney?

 

[roabilly]

Not running this time. Not asked to by either slate. being from a small station I guess both slates feel I wouldn't produce enough potential votes to contribute to a planned win. I get it. It's a numbers game, politics and the pursuit of potential votes. On the other hand... this thought process does not always produce the best candidates on either side. VH was a true unionist. He would indeed be screamin' SHUT EM DOWN! Even back then there were opposition candidates portraying him as too extreme. Opposition candidates who promised to do a better job. opposition candidates who successfully mislead the membership and as a result the Teamsters were decertified. Times have changed. Our bargaining representative has changed. District Leadership Teams with the IAM have changed. As a result of this continual dissention among the membership our working conditions have changed as well. Unfortunately, it has not been a positive change but a collective negative change. There are many contributing factors to our collective decline that have nothing to do with our union. Going forward... I hope we will finally recognize this and quit blaming our union leadership for it all. Don't get me wrong; those elected officials who fail in their duty to represent should be called out and voted out. I only hope that we can unite for the common good. For our solidarity is about to be tested with the merger. I think there are a lot of members ready to LOCK and LOAD. Is the IAM? Will the NMB ever allow the members to legally take economic action? This is one of the contributing factors, of our collective decline, I was referring to. A change in leadership does not change this contributing factor.    

You, and I, both think exactly alike...
 
I think it comes from decades of experience in this environment. We know what works, and we know what doesn't work. We lived deregulation, we lived BK for profit, and we lived with intimidation from management as union reps. We know how the RLA governs every move in the process, and serves as a crutch for the company.
 
I'm pretty hard on a few in here for participating in arm-chair politics. These are folks that have never even sought to serve the membership, or advance unionism. They just want to b*** about everything and create dissent..
 
Lock -N- Load!

 

[737823]

No, how do you want to explain that? I am not defending anyone, I am explaining the realities of what is going on and asking Tim how he would change it.

Sure you are, this is in the same category as "US has only been outside of bankruptcy for nine years" and "the membership approved the agreement". Look you know full well the system is broken and the IAM isn't servicing their members, it is inexcusable grievances aren't being responded to, but then again you probably think they are doing them a favor simply allowing them join and pay dues to your country club (IAM) and should expect nothing in return.

Josh

 

[737823]

Not my regime, I was 142, you can blame timmy, he pushed for Delaney and the rest.

Why do you keep scapegoating Tim? Unlike you he speaks up when things are not right and tried to enact positive change.

Josh