2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

 
CB,
 
I completely agree that one needs to look at the whole compensation package, instead of just the topped out wage.  As the Company insists on being cost-neutral relative to AA FSAs, it might be worth some consideration to provide the estimated hourly cost differences between the two work groups?
 
For example, and I am completely pulling numbers out of thin air or making general estimates, but if we start with the topped-out hourly base pay:
 
 
Est. Hourly Costs                  US         AA       
Topped-Out Wage        $   20.50  $   23.00
Health Insurance           $     6.00  $     5.00
Pension                         $     1.00  $          -  
401K Match                   $           -    $     0.80
Vacation                        $     2.00  $     2.00
FICA, SS, UE, etc.         $     3.00  $     3.50
Overtime                       $     0.75  $     0.50
Holiday Pay                   $     0.50  $     0.75
Shift Pay                        $           -    $     1.00      
TOTAL                           $   33.75  $   36.55
                                  
Again, these are purely fictional numbers, so no one go posting them in breakrooms.  However, I think it would allow the Membership to understand and make a judgment as to wage versus other benefits. Also I think the Company would love to inform the Membership, not to mention, the general public, as to the costs of hiring a FSA to make their case about being reasonable.
 
My proposal is not perfect as it does not consider intangibles related to scope, nor would everyone be making the topped-out wage, especially if the length of time to be topped-out changes.  However, it is a starting point instead of making vague, general statements about wages vs. benefits without having realistic numbers to compare.

For comparison sake, regarding scope, does someone have good numbers on how many Fleet Service stations are currently protected by union contracts on both AA and US. This number needs to be compared and considered. Any work the company can force outside of the CBAs represents huge cost savings for the company. It's time to protect the work currently being done under contract. Agreeing to continual outsourcing erodes future leverage of those remaining.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
I'm going to say this about our last proposal, which by the way was before the merger was completed. We have never believed we should be equal to AA with our total compensation package. In fact once you cost everything out, we currently are right now equal to AA. That's without making any improvements. Just adding a 5th week vacation would then put is above them. But I, and the whole committee thinks we should be above them. You keep saying how scope is above all, but then you keep posting about pay. AA is down to 17 stations at 22.53 a hour. And 1.50 lead premium, not 1.75 like you want everyone to believe. Now do I think we should be up to AA wage rates with our 35 stations ? Yes I do. Company does not. There lies the main issue. But stop posting things, and think you are baiting us to post things to prove you wrong. We will put out official proposals if and when we can do so. We have all made agreements on the team to put out the same info. So we discuss things as a team before we release things. We don't keep things from the membership. That's why PRez and myself are always on here trying to keep everyone as up to date as we can.

well then please go back to your team and put out what you asked for. AH knows, and our members have every right to know since you say we are at an impasse. Better to put it in writing than handling phone calls. Save all the non disclosure bs as well since i know damn well you guys can tell us.

 

[charlie Brown]

Thanks CB, but, if we are at an impasse and the union has printed such to its members, what harm is it to know what we may walk or hold out for? The company has committed ( by the IAM update ) so it seams. If they haven't and its  a play on words ok. Im fine with that, because they may come back to the table and i'm sure there is a non-disclosure agreement till something is signed. But, if we are truly at an impasse then i would like to know specifics unless a agreement precludes that.

Mike
I know you would like specifics, and we have always said we need to be where AA is in wages. Add that to the rest of your current contract and overall it puts us quite ahead of AA. Not to mention the other things the membership has said they need. However, to put out exact specifics without going over it with the rest of the team first? I'm simply not going to do that. We don't want 10 guys on the NC giving out 10 different opinions, that some members will quote and run with. We will be getting together this week, and I'm sure some info will be released by the team.

 

[Tim Nelson]

For comparison sake, regarding scope, does someone have good numbers on how many Fleet Service stations are currently protected by union contracts on both AA and US. This number needs to be compared and considered. Any work the company can force outside of the CBAs represents huge cost savings for the company. It's time to protect the work currently being done under contract. Agreeing to continual outsourcing erodes future leverage of those remaining.

cb says i think 33 stations but i dont believe all of them are protected as some can get contracted out this april. That being said, our nc is not being creative enuf. Cb needs to put the proposal out, especially the scope part. AH knows, so should our members.

 

[mike33]

For comparison sake, regarding scope, does someone have good numbers on how many Fleet Service stations are currently protected by union contracts on both AA and US. This number needs to be compared and considered. Any work the company can force outside of the CBAs represents huge cost savings for the company. It's time to protect the work currently being done under contract. Agreeing to continual outsourcing erodes future leverage of those remaining.

AA-17 i believe...US-35 i think. AA has till 31dec 2017 as their boggie number goes to 105 on 1 jan 2018...thats why US wants us under the TWU contract. We will be gone by jan1 2018...
 
ours?... we will see? Thats off the top of my head

 

[737823]

AA 17 i believe...US 35 i think. AA is till 31dec 2017....ours?... we will see? Thats off the top of my head

US current scope apply indefinitely until a new agreement is ratified, correct? Or are there cinderella dates in the US agreement?

Josh

 

[DFWFSC]

AA 17 i believe...US 35 i think. AA is till 31dec 2017....ours?... we will see? Thats off the top of my head

17 is correct for AA. Pretty sad considering we've had at least 75 stations outsourced in the last 25 years. We even had guys at Anchorage and Lake Tahoe.

 

[mike33]

17 is correct for AA. Pretty sad considering we've had at least 75 stations outsourced in the last 25 years. We even had guys at Anchorage and Lake Tahoe.

Yeah sorry about that. The boogie number is our death in your contract for 1 jan 2018...Hope all realize that!

 

[charlie Brown]

cb says i think 33 stations but i dont believe all of them are protected as some can get contracted out this april. That being said, our nc is not being creative enuf. Cb needs to put the proposal out, especially the scope part. AH knows, so should our members.

Tim
It's boring going back and forth with you. I'll make you a deal. Since your coming to clt, hurry and transfer ASAP. You and I can walk around together, and you can tell them all everything you can do and get them if your on the negotiating team. If the membership would rather have you, then I'll step down and let you take over. I'll even give you all the credit. I'm here for the membership, this has nothing to do personally, or politically. But since you can get all of this done, I think we need to start pushing for you to be on the team. And you can let the team know what all your going to do and put out to the members. I wish you would quit all your talking and back it up with actions. If the members want you on the team, I'll even be your biggest supporter to get you on. And don't say we can't do it, because Delaney won't allow it. You make the commitment for the membership, and we will see if we can get the rest of the team to approve. The offer is there, do you want to take me up on it?? I think you should. Maybe everyone else in clt thinks I'm a prick and liar like you do. If that's the case, come on down, and we can see who they prefer.

 

[mike33]

Yeah sorry about that. The boogie number is our death in your contract for 1 jan 2018...Hope all realize that!

Do you know that if AA does not fly into a USairways city,  that if you have less than 20 flights a day when we become AA, you can be outsourced?..... That is one reason a TWU contract melding sucks. Fight for your scope !
 



[SIZE=12pt]The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented Fleet Service employees are assigned currently with 2555 5475 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and above annual departures or 1460 for Ground Service employees and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] 5475 7300 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]annual departures. for Fleet Service employees and 3650 for Ground Service employees. The Company will also restaff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 2555 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]7300 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and above annual departures. for Fleet Service employees and 1460 for Ground Service employees. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]The Bold numbers are the changed numbers[/SIZE]

 

[mike33]

CB
 
  If you guys are going to give us specifics, please do so soon. It will take awhile to educate those in the west as to what are their losses. That is all i'm asking really! After all it's not like before where they were thrown 3-5$ an hr.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
It's boring going back and forth with you. I'll make you a deal. Since your coming to clt, hurry and transfer ASAP. You and I can walk around together, and you can tell them all everything you can do and get them if your on the negotiating team. If the membership would rather have you, then I'll step down and let you take over. I'll even give you all the credit. I'm here for the membership, this has nothing to do personally, or politically. But since you can get all of this done, I think we need to start pushing for you to be on the team. And you can let the team know what all your going to do and put out to the members. I wish you would quit all your talking and back it up with actions. If the members want you on the team, I'll even be your biggest supporter to get you on. And don't say we can't do it, because Delaney won't allow it. You make the commitment for the membership, and we will see if we can get the rest of the team to approve. The offer is there, do you want to take me up on it?? I think you should. Maybe everyone else in clt thinks I'm a prick and liar like you do. If that's the case, come on down, and we can see who they prefer.

Ive always delivered under the membership under their dime and even when im not getting paud. I would have loved to be in clt already and out of this nasty weather.
at any rate, just hold the position and listen to the membership. Its not about you or me. AH is hoping we panic like what happened in may 2008 before june elections.

 

[Tim Nelson]

CB
 
  If you guys are going to give us specifics, please do so soon. It will take awhile to educate those in the west as to what are their losses. That is all i'm asking really! After all it's not like before where they were thrown 3-5$ an hr.

i appreciate your views on scope. Scope is the most important thing to enhance above all. Enhancing it is incredibly contentious with the company but it must be done. These airlines are projected to make billions and billions as the industry has finally consoludated. They F us out of profit sharing but we cant be F out of small stations. The meaning of mainline is also changing so we have to nail down what the hell a mainline jet is and stop blaming alpa.

 

[charlie Brown]

CB
 
  If you guys are going to give us specifics, please do so soon. It will take awhile to educate those in the west as to what are their losses. That is all i'm asking really! After all it's not like before where they were thrown 3-5$ an hr.

Mike
I here ya. And I will give all the specifics I can on here as soon as I can. You are welcome to call the grievance office and leave me your phone number so I can get back to you and probably answer some questions you may have. 704-359-3350. I'll be in the office mon & tues this week. So leave me your number and I'll call you back.

 

[700UW]

well then please go back to your team and put out what you asked for. AH knows, and our members have every right to know since you say we are at an impasse. Better to put it in writing than handling phone calls. Save all the non disclosure bs as well since i know damn well you guys can tell us.

Yep, he is AH's mouthpiece.