2015 Pilot Discussion.
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cactusboy53
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- May 9, 2007
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cactusboy53
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- May 9, 2007
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cactusboy53
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luvthe9
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Because its the mistake that took your entire airline down and left you in the fishbowl........you had it and gave it up.............."we all owned it anyway".......how's that working for you?cactusboy53 said:
Pretty simple.....your GREED cost you. And again in STL there D S (not you) blew for you again.
This letter comes under the heading: "We told you this would happen and you have no one to blame but yourselves."
The PHX Reps are complaining that there has been no movement and in fact, the opposite is true. They were warned many times by many people that by refusing to negotiate with the East over Nicolau and insisting it would be Nicolau or nothing, they got nothing. Five attempts to negotiate with them over the years resulted in telling us in essence, "Go to hell." Now they complain that they have been left behind.
Parker and Kirby told them that without the East merger, they would have implemented the plan "Zanzibar," within 2 weeks entered bankruptcy, furloughed 20% of the pilots and most likely liquidation shortly after that since they had no money and no prospects of getting financing. So by merging, they now fly 24% of former East flights. They should be grateful for the opportunity of merging with an airline that was profitable.
So read the following with all this in mind and try not to shed any tears.
APA PHX Domicile Update: December 20, 2015
YOUR NAME IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LETTER.............,,,, .Wye do you still complain about the fishbowl......you did it to yourselves .................just saying
Black Swan
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- Dec 13, 2009
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I hate to inform you, seeing you say you were or are a West rep, that you are completely incorrect. Seniority is negotiable, and if all parties including the USAirways CEO were agreeable, the seniority list could have been altered, modified, by input of all mutually agreeable parties. The Nic could have been modified, altered, or thrown out completely. That is why USAPA was not beholden to the NIC, unless the East and West groups voted in a JCBA, which included it. And they never did. That is why most here feel you did not get the Nic. It was merely a proposal, never memorialized in a JCBA.cactusboy53 said:
If this is what the West pilots were told by your leaders, then you misinformed them. And you should accept the blame.
luvthe9
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cactusboy53 said:
"Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was."
What good are attorneys if you don’t take their advice?
Yes Dorothy, what good are they if you don't take their advice........geez, your paying top dollar for it
Black Swan
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If that is a Blomgren quote, and I suspect it is- Dave Blomgren is absolutely correct as was Freund. The Nic was negotiable. The AWA pilot leadership, i.e. The group after Herb Holland was pulled ( Ferguson, CJSzmal, Vasin, Burkett, Braid, ) had no idea what they were doing. The only one who knew the facts was Freund, and he told you what your group did not want to hear. The Nic was NOT achievable if the East voted ALPA out and never signed a JCBA that contained it. Then the AA merger overtook the entire process, and had a MOU without a Nic. It was over with that event.luvthe9 said:
cactusboy53
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Black Swan
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Exactly why you are in the situation you find yourselves. You have one base, which you can't escape, with limited options. No movement. Stagnantcactusboy53 said:
At least Blomgren had the stones to face reality. Ferguson sold you a bill of goods he could never deliver. History proves Dave was exactly right.
luvthe9
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cactusboy53 said:
You just don't want to take the responsibility for that fateful mistake when you were pre warned, I guess in your own mind, you are just filled with denial........I will agree it is a very hard thing to accept what you have done to your pilot group.........but it seems you have absolutely no guilt whatsoever to the damage you caused your pilot group.
Bean
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- Feb 9, 2015
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I just bought some new batteries for my old RC cub I like to fly.
It's an old bird, but still flies true.
I enjoy it.
As far as our list to be announced, I just can't seem to grasp that the arbitrators didn't honor a methodology that was determined to be fair and equitable.
There was no testimony, analysis, or time spent trying to satisfy why the Nic should or shouldn't be used. I think our West committee offered the numerous boxes of evidence, testimony, and history to the arbitrators, yet they declined.
That tells me they had their mind made up.
It's an old bird, but still flies true.
I enjoy it.
As far as our list to be announced, I just can't seem to grasp that the arbitrators didn't honor a methodology that was determined to be fair and equitable.
There was no testimony, analysis, or time spent trying to satisfy why the Nic should or shouldn't be used. I think our West committee offered the numerous boxes of evidence, testimony, and history to the arbitrators, yet they declined.
That tells me they had their mind made up.
Bean
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i still, to this day, do not understand why the east feels they should be senior to anyone who added aircraft to the equation.
How does an employee believe he should be able to bid and fly an aircraft that never existed on his original certificate above someone who at the time currently staffed that airplane?
If the fleet count remained stagnant, then yes, get in line.
But when the fleet count increases, in other words, you merged, isn't it reasonable and logical that you don't move up or down with respect to where you were prior to that merger.
I didn't move up with Nic, I moved down slightly, about 517 worth.
I just don't understand how people can argue date of hire when there are two entities involved.
If you were bottom of your list, you should be bottom of the combined list.
I was bottom of my list, after the nic I was still bottom of the combined list.
Why should I feel obligated to sacrifice my relative position to help prop up and elevate another because they got screwed from a management I never knew.
It's not date of hire, it's airplanes and the new number that became the reality
How does an employee believe he should be able to bid and fly an aircraft that never existed on his original certificate above someone who at the time currently staffed that airplane?
If the fleet count remained stagnant, then yes, get in line.
But when the fleet count increases, in other words, you merged, isn't it reasonable and logical that you don't move up or down with respect to where you were prior to that merger.
I didn't move up with Nic, I moved down slightly, about 517 worth.
I just don't understand how people can argue date of hire when there are two entities involved.
If you were bottom of your list, you should be bottom of the combined list.
I was bottom of my list, after the nic I was still bottom of the combined list.
Why should I feel obligated to sacrifice my relative position to help prop up and elevate another because they got screwed from a management I never knew.
It's not date of hire, it's airplanes and the new number that became the reality
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