2015 Pilot Discussion.

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

A lot of those west to east pilots back in the right seat of the 330,

 

[luvthe9]

Fellow Phoenix Pilots,
We evidently have an answer regarding the recent EAST-Centric bid that denies all the pilots of American Airlines the right participate in positions available after the SFP and SLI.
The ANSWER is NO..
There will be no Rescinding. The Land Grab stands. This is not about just about PHX but AA has their own bids and growth, nothing for PHX for 10 years...
PHX is again the one left out.
Great way of Rewarding Good Behavior, isn't it?
Sincerely and Fraternally,
John
What was it you westies used to tell east pilots; oh yea " going to work for us airways was a bad career choice"
Me thinks you all might want to reconsider the AWA choice you all made.

Wye are they complaining so much...............I seem to remember they took the NIC or nothing stance, most definitely not our fault, they were offered the NIC TWICE!

 

[cactusboy53]

Wye are they complaining so much...............I seem to remember they took the NIC or nothing stance, most definitely not our fault, they were offered the NIC TWICE!

 
[sub-note 40: Not only does the Wye River meeting confirm that the East pilots understood the force of the Nicolau Award, it confirms that they were willing to live under it.  By the terms of their proposal, the list would be operative immediately upon execution of a JCBA but with restrictions for seven additional years.  (The East pilots’ Wye River proposal contemplated that a JCBA would be ratified by June 2008, which was a reasonable assumption given the state of negotiations, including the Kirby proposal.  See West R. Ex. C (East Wye River Proposal) 22.)  Had the East’s Wye River Proposal been in effect, the Nicolau list would have been the list to be used in this proceeding without question and the carryover restrictions of the East pilots’ Wye River Proposal would have dropped within months of the effective date of the Award in this case…]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=24pt]arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Also found in: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Dictionary[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Thesaurus[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Medical[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Financial[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Encyclopedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Wikipedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The submission of a dispute to an unbiased third person designated by the parties to the controversy, who agree in advance to comply with the award—a decision to be issued after a hearing at which both parties have an opportunity to be heard.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Arbitration is a well-established and widely used means to end disputes. It is one of several kinds of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Alternative Dispute Resolution[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], which provide parties to a controversy with a choice other than litigation. Unlike litigation, arbitration takes place out of court: the two sides select an impartial third party, known as an arbitrator; agree in advance to comply with the arbitrator's award; and then participate in a hearing at which both sides can present evidence and testimony. The arbitrator's decision is usually final, and courts rarely reexamine it….[/SIZE]

 

[luvthe9]

There he is.......

 

[luvthe9]

arbitration
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Medical, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Arbitration
The submission of a dispute to an unbiased third person designated by the parties to the controversy, who agree in advance to comply with the awarda decision to be issued after a hearing at which both parties have an opportunity to be heard.

Arbitration is a well-established and widely used means to end disputes. It is one of several kinds of Alternative Dispute Resolution, which provide parties to a controversy with a choice other than litigation. Unlike litigation, arbitration takes place out of court: the two sides select an impartial third party, known as an arbitrator; agree in advance to comply with the arbitrator's award; and then participate in a hearing at which both sides can present evidence and testimony. The arbitrator's decision is usually final, and courts rarely reexamine it.

Please note key word......."usually".........Wye River



Still a favorite.........


"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now,"

 

[cactusboy53]

Please note key word......."usually".........Wye River

Still a favorite.........

"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now,"

 
[SIZE=12pt]Freund:   Okay.  And would it be fair to say that in looking at this slide, if one were to take the American pilots out, what we would see would be Rick Brown's substituted judgment as the new George Nicolau with respect to the relationship between the East pilots and the West pilots?[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

 
How insane was it to ignore the advice of Jeff Freund at Wye River and sign on with the self serving drivel of the 2004 hire fantasy lawyers?
 
The answer: Very.

 
Yes....how utterly INSANE to ignore the advice of learned counsel:
 
[SIZE=12pt]From “A Conversation with an Attorney” - between (NAME REDACTED FOR CRY BABIES) &  Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan, a labor law firm (Chris Katzenbach point):  “Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud.” [/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]This in response to (NAME REDACTED FOR CRY BABIES)[/SIZE] saying the following:  “I next specifically asked him about the formation of a new bargaining agent as an avenue of advance to get around this award…”

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

[sub-note 40: Not only does the Wye River meeting confirm that the East pilots understood the force of the Nicolau Award, it confirms that they were willing to live under it.  By the terms of their proposal, the list would be operative immediately upon execution of a JCBA but with restrictions for seven additional years.  (The East pilots’ Wye River proposal contemplated that a JCBA would be ratified by June 2008, which was a reasonable assumption given the state of negotiations, including the Kirby proposal.  See West R. Ex. C (East Wye River Proposal) 22.)  Had the East’s Wye River Proposal been in effect, the Nicolau list would have been the list to be used in this proceeding without question and the carryover restrictions of the East pilots’ Wye River Proposal would have dropped within months of the effective date of the Award in this case…]

. Notwithstanding the long history of litigation between West Pilots and USAPA concerning the Nicolau Award, no court ordered implementation of the Nicolau Award ISL. The June 2015 decision of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals did not do so, as the court of appeals acknowledged, “ecause a good faith attempt to implement the Nicolau Award would have ultimately required a ratification vote by all the pilots, and we cannot know what the results of such a vote would have been, we can never be certain whether efforts to implement the Nicolau Award through a collective bargaining agreement with US Airways would have succeeded.” 791 F.3d at 991.18/ The court of appeals had earlier noted that ALPA failed in its efforts to resolve the dispute over the Nicolau Award and so “it is, at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s membership.” 606 F.3d at 1180.19/ If courts found they lacked authority to order implementation of the Nicolau Award ISL because it was speculative whether the condition precedent to its implementation -- that is, a ratified joint collective bargaining agreement -- would have occurred, then plainly this Arbitration Board cannot assert such authority in its own right. Again, arbitrators lack jurisdiction to determine or establish the status quo under the RLA.

 

[luvthe9]

Fellow Phoenix Pilots,
We evidently have an answer regarding the recent EAST-Centric bid that denies all the pilots of American Airlines the right participate in positions available after the SFP and SLI.
The ANSWER is NO..
There will be no Rescinding. The Land Grab stands. This is not about just about PHX but AA has their own bids and growth, nothing for PHX for 10 years...
PHX is again the one left out.
Great way of Rewarding Good Behavior, isn't it?
Sincerely and Fraternally,
John
What was it you westies used to tell east pilots; oh yea " going to work for us airways was a bad career choice"
Me thinks you all might want to reconsider the AWA choice you all made.

Yo Dorothy...........talk about cry babies, take a look at the APA C&R board

 

[N924PS]

Word is that Mr. Eastwood considered opening the film with an exhausted Sully collapsing on the couch of his crashpad after a 4 day, watching the 2am presentation of Dr. Neil Niren's hair plug replacement infomercial, starring one of Sully's least favorite colleagues, USA320Pilot.
 
Sadly, many scenes end up on the cutting room floor.  Such is Hollywood.

Yes, I heard they had so much extra footage featuring MC's character, they decided to craft a "short subject" film to show to open for the feature film.

They called it...... "Pop Gun." I know you're going to love it.

 

[dariencc]

Yes, I heard they had so much extra footage featuring MC's character, they decided to craft a "short subject" film to show to open for the feature film.

They called it...... "Pop Gun." I know you're going to love it.

 
We all know you're having a very difficult time adjusting to life away from the airline.  Some people simply have no life and no identity apart from their work.
 
This is not a sign of a healthy, well adjusted person.  Get help!

 

[Bean]

Ok. Take it easy...

P.S. "Bean", not to be confused with Beancounter here; If you find that at all "offensive"...well, you can always retaliate with yet another posting about "virtual dogfights" and how you would be clearly stressed by even the thought of your ever having to "actually have to be in the cockpit", and instead most comfortable having some "remote control" model airplane to offer there, or you can just run off to your nearest "Safe Space" kid. Sigh...and to think that people used to have real reasons for respecting pilots, versus today's increasingly laughable imitations.

Can't we all agree to just get along? I mean really.

The cards have been flipped.

Let's all just agree to have a harmonious integration from here on out.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yo Dorothy...........talk about cry babies, take a look at the APA C&R board

Post a few of the good ones here for the world to see. Proof positive that you can't fix stupid.

 

[luvthe9]

From a west pilot.


"Parker didn't total my career east pilots did."





I would have to disagree .......................NIC or nothing did it to you, however this guy was lied to by his PHX reps.