2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

you just gotta luv this post, Harper explains how the "west pilots" were deceived by Usapa during the road shows, LMFAO no one showed at the road shows but you buy a 625 dollar tie hire Marty and 98% of your seniority list vote overwhelming for a MOU that obviously voids all loa's and TA's you gotta luv stupidity!

West pilots were "deceived ". by Ferguson and Koontz and the other fourth tier pretend lawyers.


WEST PILOTS SUE AOL FOR THE DAMAGE DONE TO YOUR CAREER.

 

[EastUS1]

you just gotta luv this post, Harper explains how the "west pilots" were deceived by Usapa during the road shows, LMFAO no one showed at the road shows but you buy a 625 dollar tie hire Marty and 98% of your seniority list vote overwhelming for a MOU that obviously voids all loa's and TA's you gotta luv stupidity!

 
Well, in all fairness though; one does have to appreciate the subtle nuance and elegance of the "we'se juss' haplessly innocent village idiots and essential illiterates "defense" for it's creativity alone...unless they actually mean it in earnest of course, in which case a great deal of sympathy would be appropriate there. What's puzzling there's that even holding a "pilot's" license these days requires claiming an ability to speak the english language, and presumably read it as well.
 
Hmm....Not wishing to unfairly dismiss their "defense" though; perhaps this would be a proper time for "Cactuspilot" to again tout the devastating affects produced daily by "liberty" ties, herald a potential "issue" of "middle finger" rings, or for  "EastCheats" to post yet another cartoon image, so's to put all doubts anyone might otherwise harbor as to the sad validity of their above claims to rest.....

 

[cactusboy53]

West pilots were "deceived ". by Ferguson and Koontz and the other fourth tier pretend lawyers.


WEST PILOTS SUE AOL FOR THE DAMAGE DONE TO YOUR CAREER.
 
 

 
You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with the unrestrained GRIEF & repeatative regurgitation of the same old posts (& videos). 
 
It's like St. STEVEN always admonished:  "The Merger Policy provides, “TheAward of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts."  Oh wait, my mistake.  That was US Air pilot Mike Cleary writing in US Airwaves in June/July 2000 in an article regarding airline mergers.
 
We now return you to the regularly scheduled rantings of Claxon, Mutatis, Luvthe9, et al.

 

[Phoenix]

You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with the unrestrained GRIEF & repeatative regurgitation of the same old posts (& videos). 
 
It's like St. STEVEN always admonished:  "The Merger Policy provides, “TheAward of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts."  Oh wait, my mistake.  That was US Air pilot Mike Cleary writing in US Airwaves in June/July 2000 in an article regarding airline mergers.
 
We now return you to the regularly scheduled rantings of Claxon, Mutatis, Luvthe9, et al.

Coulda stuck with "never post again", but that would be like a west pilot vowing to never donate to AOL again. Just can't help it. Like flies to fly paper.

 

[Freighterguynow]

How about dealing with facts. If you want to get an indication of who is telling the truth, review the last comments of the USAPA attorney-Pat at 28:45 vs Harper's closing at 44 minutes. Justice Tashima explains to Pat that USAPA could face an injunction and he backpedals and yields to the company attorney who is more than happy to let Pat talk himself in a hole. Harper on the other hand explains how the West pilots were deceived by USAPA during the road shows. The East pilots being told the Nic was dead and telling West pilots the MOU ratification was seniority neutral. It's backed up by Judge Silver's opinion.
Watch the video clips to see who is lying and made a better closing argument.
Harper's at starting at 44 minutes vs Pat's starting at 28:45.http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view_video.php?pk_vid=0000007510

$675 for a tie ?

Hope springs eternal.

 

[EastUS1]

 
You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with.....

 
Frankly; you lost all possible credibility at "I thought", but kindly DO take a moment to even try and explain the "logic & reason" involved ANYWHERE in voting 98% in favor of an MOU that "you'se" later claimed in court you were simply too stupid to even read and understand, and were instead, so apparently and easily "deceived" by those you now imagine bereft of all "logic and reason"?...Or perhaps post yet another amusingly "heroic" shout of (and I directly quote from your earlier "material") "This is Sparta!"...or just give it up kid.
 
"because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done."?...Because you're equipped with nothing from which you could even attempt to produce any semblance of a rational and at all viable argument? That for 8 years since the nic your little "army" has done nothing but incredibly over-estimate both your self-"worth" and "wit" is no one's fault but your own.
 
I'll cheerfully "see" whatever "righteous spartan" fantasies you're (amazingly) still indulging, and raise you with some actual reality: I can only hope that after nearly 10 years since the supposed "merger" that you're all perfectly happy with the real-world fruits of all your always-assinine antics and "righteous" position, and will continue to be pleased for a good while to come in PHX.
 
Look on the bright side kids. "You'se" are now at least semi-decently paid as employees of a major airline, and it's not like anything but dumb luck even brought you to this point...otherwise; why would you have EVER settled for AWA in the first place?

 

[EastUS1]

 No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts." 

 
P.S. In light of these past 8 years now; were you honestly able to even type or speak that with any even slight semblance of a straight face? Per: Look on the bright side kids. "You'se" are now at least semi-decently paid as employees of a major airline, and it's not like anything but dumb luck even brought you to this point...otherwise; why would you have EVER settled for AWA in the first place?...I've spoken with some ex AWA folks that are both decent people and respectable pilots that found themselves there due to nothing more than adverse industry timing/whatever, and again; my aspersions are solely directed toward the idiotic likes of "you'se" self and your fellow "spartan soldiers" that, very clearly, could never have done any better than AWA on the very best day of your sorry "lives"....
 
Cases en pointe:  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfKKw-kvPo
 
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8H9smpK3U

 

[Claxon]

You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with the unrestrained GRIEF & repeatative regurgitation of the same old posts (& videos). 
 
It's like St. STEVEN always admonished:  "The Merger Policy provides, “TheAward of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts."  Oh wait, my mistake.  That was US Air pilot Mike Cleary writing in US Airwaves in June/July 2000 in an article regarding airline mergers.
 
We now return you to the regularly scheduled rantings of Claxon, Mutatis, Luvthe9, et al.

1.Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

Our MEC’s merger (and now AWAPPA’s) attorney said the NIC was “in actuality the proposed seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which…the company is not required to accept,” that it is “only a part of ALPA overall bargaining proposal,” and that NIC “does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company.” The way we read the above is that since the Nicolau seniority list isn’t enforceable on the company, the East had no right to challenge it last summer.

If you think we’re taking the above out of context, Google and read the entire response, prepared by West Merger Attorney. Case 1:07-cv-01309-EGS Document 1 Filed 07/24/2007 Freund’s response for the West MEC is 125 pages, but the important pages are 3-6. They spell out exactly what our Merger attorney thinks about whether the company must accept the NIC. According to him, they don’t.

There is no doubt at U-Turn that if the NIC Award is scrapped there will be a DFR lawsuit. In fact, U-Turn has long supported a DFR lawsuit if the NIC is gone. If for nothing else, we need to clear the air and exhaust all our legal options. USAPA has to be expecting a DFR as soon as there’s a single contract dumping the NIC. Their expectations of winning are as high as ours. Unfortunately for us, the bar in winning a DFR is high. How could the Freund comments above help?

 

[Claxon]

You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with the unrestrained GRIEF & repeatative regurgitation of the same old posts (& videos). 
 
It's like St. STEVEN always admonished:  "The Merger Policy provides, “TheAward of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts."  Oh wait, my mistake.  That was US Air pilot Mike Cleary writing in US Airwaves in June/July 2000 in an article regarding airline mergers.
 
We now return you to the regularly scheduled rantings of Claxon, Mutatis, Luvthe9, et al.

Taking Responsibility

“A recession is when you have to tighten your belt; depression is when you have no belt to tighten. When you've lost your trousers - you're in the airline business.” Sir Adam Thomson

Over the past few U-Turns, we’ve noticed a change in the tone of comments we’ve received. Maybe the reality of what we are up against is finally sinking in. Some accused us of taking the quotes from the Freund rebuttal out of context. We didn’t. We’ve had requests for copies of Jeff Freund’s actual East Vs West court documents. The file is too big to be directly cut and pasted. We can forward it in a scanned PDF-ZIP/Scan format. Just email us. Remember, we have no website, no budget and receive no donations. Maybe someone will paste it as an attachment on the AWAPPA web board for all to view. We would do it ourselves, but we’ve all been banned from the AWAPPA web board since May.

We have also received additional comments on what happened at Wye River from both sides. While our initial reporting appears to be correct and consistent with the latest accounts, it was incomplete. Here’s additional information from both sides.

According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We won’t address his motivation for leaving.
As Jeff Freund observed in his rebuttal to the East MEC lawsuit, the NIC was not in stone. And the loss of ALPA put it in real trouble. At least ALPA had the obligation, through the ALPA Merger Policy, to attempt to get the company to use the NIC Award.

ALPA’s lawyers knew the list was negotiable, but they never told either rank and file. We attended last summer’s ALPA road shows in PHX, starring Paul Rice and a cast of ALPA attorneys. Did ALPA ever hint that the NIC was negotiable? We believe it was for fear of fanning the flames and drawing more support for USAPA that Herndon kept that from us. They did tell all the Wye River attendees the reality. One side listened, the other didn’t.

In last summer’s East Vs West lawsuit, the East used ALPA DUES MONEY and an ALPA-Approved attorney, Roland Wilder, to pursue the case. As far as we can determine, we had to use our own Merger Fund money to defend ourselves. Thanks for choosing sides, ALPA! In the likely event that the NIC will be trashed in a single contract, it will be our own voluntary contributions that will have to be raised for a DFR lawsuit. USAPA expects it, so we shouldn’t disappoint them. This could be an extremely costly effort that could drag on for years. U-Turn is not discouraging filing a DFR, and we need closure.

Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didn’t CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didn’t believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you don’t take their advice?

 

[EastCheats]

West pilots were "deceived ". by Ferguson and Koontz and the other fourth tier pretend lawyers.


WEST PILOTS SUE AOL FOR THE DAMAGE DONE TO YOUR CAREER.

 
View attachment 10774

 

[Freighterguynow]

2 out of 3 aint bad ...

 

[FL430]

You know.....I thought I would never post here again because arguing with folks like Luv'r just can't be done.  Logic & reason can not argue with the unrestrained GRIEF & repeatative regurgitation of the same old posts (& videos). 
 
It's like St. STEVEN always admonished:  "The Merger Policy provides, “TheAward of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts."  Oh wait, my mistake.  That was US Air pilot Mike Cleary writing in US Airwaves in June/July 2000 in an article regarding airline mergers.
 
We now return you to the regularly scheduled rantings of Claxon, Mutatis, Luvthe9, et al.

So is your secondary message here is that you believe Luv is actually a prolific east captain that posts a lot on C&R? Could be, I don't know for sure, but writing style is sure similar.

 

[traderjake]

Not to give you any GRIEF, but luvthe9 is not nearly coherent enough to be the same. 
 
There's a PHL Captain that posted a few time on C&R that much more aligns with luv's mindless babble and even proposed DOH with some "nice conditions and restrictions". 
 
(I reserve the right to be wrong)

 

[luvthe9]

So is your secondary message here is that you believe Luv is actually a prolific east captain that posts a lot on C&R? Could be, I don't know for sure, but writing style is sure similar.

Geez, I thought I was suppose to be Courtney.

 

[luvthe9]

 
(I reserve the right to be wrong)

When is pappys little boy going to get over his fear of upgrading. I will even buy a bucket of chicken for your cherry flight.





"According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two"




"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."



Poor, poor Danny boy!