EastCheats
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Maybe you need to join in on tonight's therapy session with Eastus and Fenix and have a three-way.MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
2015 Pilot Discussion.
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Reverence goes a long way You never served or were even close ! The WEST Montra!EastCheats said:Maybe you need to join in on tonight's therapy session with Eastus and Fenix and have a three-way.
Well your veteran appreciated is noted , do you speak for trader , and your groupEastCheats said:Maybe you need to join in on tonight's therapy session with Eastus and Fenix and have a three-way.
You never served did ya? No you did not, but then again no surprise!EastCheats said:Maybe you need to join in on tonight's therapy session with Eastus and Fenix and have a three-way.
EastCheats
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Nah, I was earning a degree.MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
I surprised the cook could make any sense of the orders you took. 😉
EastCheats said:
How truly "impressive" an excuse THAT is. Perhaps "you'se" were/are unaware of the fact that "a degree" was/is mandatory for even consideration for commissioning and flight training?...No? What kind of incredibly insular, isolated and fully sheltered little "It's ALL about MEEE!" bubble were "you'se" really "raised" in?...Seriously; words just fail me here folks.
You may now resume braying, little jackass. Feel free to saturate such with as many more astoundingly brilliant "Hee Haws" as you see the need.
EastCheats
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EastUS1 said:
Really? I had no idea. Thanks for the info, Ace 😉
cactusboy53
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Mike,EastUS1 said:
Have another ale and sit this one out. Let us Spartan's quote facts & truth.
Dave
Spartan, your comments with regard to Addington 1 and 2?cactusboy53 said:
Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 666 Filed 10/19/10 Page 4 of 11
But the substantive rulings in Addington have been vacated pursuant to mandate, and both cases would now write on clean slates if there were anything to write in Addington, which there is not.
IT IS ORDERED that Plaintiffs’ Motion to Transfer Related Case, Pursuant to
LRCiv 42.1 (Doc. 642) is denied.
DATED this 18th day of October, 2010.
Neil V. Wake
United States District Judge
Doug Parker Letter 08/16/2007
Dear US Airways Pilot:
I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2058
You will recall the testimony of plaintiff Mark Burman. He's the man who verified the complaint in this action for the plaintiffs who agreed that the union election between ALPA and USAPA was basically a referendum vote rejecting the Nicolau Award.
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2009
You had plaintiff witness Ken Stravers, former chairman of the West Merger Committee, agree that the term log-jam was appropriate. Plaintiff Mark Burman recognized that there was an impasse. Plaintiffs' witness Russell Payne, former member of the ALPA -- the West ALPA MEC merger committee, agreed that the Wye River meetings were to resolve the impasse that existed and that they didn't succeed. Named plaintiff Steve Wargocki confirmed he had described the impasse that had arisen between the two sides as a quagmire.
Dear US Airways Pilot:
I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2058
You will recall the testimony of plaintiff Mark Burman. He's the man who verified the complaint in this action for the plaintiffs who agreed that the union election between ALPA and USAPA was basically a referendum vote rejecting the Nicolau Award.
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2009
You had plaintiff witness Ken Stravers, former chairman of the West Merger Committee, agree that the term log-jam was appropriate. Plaintiff Mark Burman recognized that there was an impasse. Plaintiffs' witness Russell Payne, former member of the ALPA -- the West ALPA MEC merger committee, agreed that the Wye River meetings were to resolve the impasse that existed and that they didn't succeed. Named plaintiff Steve Wargocki confirmed he had described the impasse that had arisen between the two sides as a quagmire.
The former PHX rep stated east pilots avoided the Nicolau Award by not ratifying a very generous offer termed The Kirby Proposal. The following seems to refute that claim in its entirety. Comments Cactusboy53?cactusboy53 said:
Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 512 Filed 06/10/2009 Page 6 of 14
With respect to wages, the Company’s proposal – the Kirby Proposal – is still on the table in current negotiations (Hemenway Trial Tr. 862:2-11), and Plaintiffs’ witness, Russell Payne, testified that he recalled that West MEC Chairman McIlvenna (and the East MEC chairman) considered the Kirby Proposal for pay to be “woefully inadequate.” (Tr. 644:15-19).
Plaintiffs dispute this fact on the grounds that this evidence is inadmissible hearsay. (Doc. # 508 ¶ 21). However, Plaintiffs did not make a hearsay objection, or any objection, when Mr. Payne was asked about his recollection of the “woefully inadequate” comment. Further, Plaintiffs’ objection now (that “[t]his cannot be used to prove the truth of the matter asserted – that, in fact, the Kirby proposal was inadequate,” Doc. # 508 ¶ 21) has no merit in any event because Defendant was not
trying to prove that the Kirby Proposal was in fact inadequate but rather that the West MEC chairman regarded the proposal as inadequate. Based on the fact that the East and West MEC’s were not prepared to accept the Kirby Proposal, Mr. Payne agreed that “we can’t sit here and prognosticate when it would have been TA’d.” (Tr. 644:23-25). And when asked, “[t]herefore we can’t prognosticate as to when a final contract altogether would have been TA’d, correct?” Mr. Payne responded, “Not with any certainty, no.” (Tr. 645:1-3).
Cactusboy53 claims the Nicolau is still " the list" and shall be the list used to integrate east and west pilots. Cactusboy53- your comments on the following by President of American Airlines, also known as Scott Kirby. And do you claim Mr. Kirby is misinformed, possibly confused as to the standing of the labor situation and integration of east and west pilots? Perhaps he has been mislead by Al Hemenway?
US Airways President Scott Kirby on Route Network, Pay and Benefits, and Seniority Integration
On seniority integration:
...the area that people focus on the most is USAPA, our pilots union. And, in this case, there's a huge benefit for our pilots and getting the deal done. They go to the they can go to the contract at American, which is a very large pay raise for the US Airways pilots.
So as I fly around the system, as I talk to the union leadership at USAPA, they want the deal to happen and they want this to get done, and they're working cooperatively with us and with APA to get the deal done.
As to the seniority and integration issue, I think this is the way out of the box for them.
Click here for the remainder of Mr. Kirby's comments on seniority integration.
For those of you that follow the industry, there's been a seniority to fight between the former US Airways and the former America West pilots. And as long as that seniority dispute is happening and isn't resolved by a court, they really can't negotiate a single agreement with the company because they can't agree on what's going to happen with seniority, and they're waiting for a court to answer that question for them.
This is a way to start over, and not start over completely, but at least have a fresh beginning. Today, you know the analogy I use is they've painted themselves into a corner, into a room, and neither side can compromise. This is a way to start the process over in a new integration. There's also the federal legislation, the McCaskill-Bond legislation, which will mandate binding arbitration. So the plan in this case is that our union and APA combined will have a joint contract, and we will have that hopefully on the day we close the merger, assuming we do. That contract will be in place, and so there will be a joint contract in place.
In the US Airways/America West case, it went to binding arbitration, but there was a requirement, as part of that, that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn't done yet. And because it wasn't done yet, the side that didn't like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.
In this case, there will be a joint contract in advance and the seniority integration will happen. I'm encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company, so I'm optimistic that this, ironically, solves the largest hangover from the US Airways/American West transaction."
US Airways President Scott Kirby on Route Network, Pay and Benefits, and Seniority Integration
On seniority integration:
...the area that people focus on the most is USAPA, our pilots union. And, in this case, there's a huge benefit for our pilots and getting the deal done. They go to the they can go to the contract at American, which is a very large pay raise for the US Airways pilots.
So as I fly around the system, as I talk to the union leadership at USAPA, they want the deal to happen and they want this to get done, and they're working cooperatively with us and with APA to get the deal done.
As to the seniority and integration issue, I think this is the way out of the box for them.
Click here for the remainder of Mr. Kirby's comments on seniority integration.
For those of you that follow the industry, there's been a seniority to fight between the former US Airways and the former America West pilots. And as long as that seniority dispute is happening and isn't resolved by a court, they really can't negotiate a single agreement with the company because they can't agree on what's going to happen with seniority, and they're waiting for a court to answer that question for them.
This is a way to start over, and not start over completely, but at least have a fresh beginning. Today, you know the analogy I use is they've painted themselves into a corner, into a room, and neither side can compromise. This is a way to start the process over in a new integration. There's also the federal legislation, the McCaskill-Bond legislation, which will mandate binding arbitration. So the plan in this case is that our union and APA combined will have a joint contract, and we will have that hopefully on the day we close the merger, assuming we do. That contract will be in place, and so there will be a joint contract in place.
In the US Airways/America West case, it went to binding arbitration, but there was a requirement, as part of that, that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn't done yet. And because it wasn't done yet, the side that didn't like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.
In this case, there will be a joint contract in advance and the seniority integration will happen. I'm encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company, so I'm optimistic that this, ironically, solves the largest hangover from the US Airways/American West transaction."
Cactusboy53 your comments regarding USAirways being saved? Your comments specifically in response to Mr Parker's allegation America West airlines being in financial duress and heading for more? Please cite sources to back your allegations and facts. Mr. Parker has.
Phoenix Crew News February 6, 2007
Pilot: I hear you stand there and talk about how great the view is on your side of the podium is like my compatriot Coladio saying on this side we are pretty upset. You are touting all these improvements but I just wanted to tell you from our view what weve seen accomplished. Since this merger was announced it has been complete stagnation for our pilot group. Our schedules are what we are able to do as far as bidding that type of thing. None of that has improved. The pilots that were hired here three years ago have the same schedules that they had. They dont have weekends off. They spend the same amount of time away from their families. Pilots that we had in our hiring pool were sent home. Pilots that are on the east pilot group are being recalled. America West and this pilot group put you in a position to where you could acquire US Airways. We dont see that as fair at all. Speaking of unfair, the seniority boarding thing youve come out with we view it as a real farce. Its not seniority boarding, its date of hire. Theres people that are on furlough-- pilots that are on furlough that have a greater day of hire than me. They dont have a job right now when they come back they are going to bump me out of a seat. Its also a violation of our contract Section 26 says you cant make any changes to that benefit. Weve also heard from Scott Kirby that this cost neutral thing was a big mistake and we were told to expect some changes at the bargaining table. Last time we were at bargaining it was pretty apparent from our side that management didnt spend any time they just came in handed sections out of the east contract. If we follow through on our plan of action while flying an aircraft the way that management is following through on their plan of action, there would be craters in the desert. The question I have for you today is if you agree that as pilots that we should focus on doing our jobs and running this airline as safely as possible.
CEO Doug Parker: The answer to that question is Yes. And let me talk about some of the comments you made. First off, as to the stagnation of growth for America West pilots since the merger what I will tell you is, and this is a hard thing to communicate to people but I believe it with all my heart, that if we didnt do the merger with US Airways youd be in a lot worse position. And frankly I think as a 3-year FO, you wouldnt have a job. We would have gone through a bankruptcy filing. We would have downsized. We had an airline at America West that had 20% lower unit revenues than US Airways and now has the same unit cost. That airline could not survive. We would try to make it better. Wed go file bankruptcy. Wed get ourselves a little stronger now the economy is back wed be trying to come out like Delta is. But I swear to you that airline was going to file bankruptcy. When it filed bankruptcy we would have downsized at least 15% and you know while you feel bad about stagnation, you should feel better about that versus where you were headed. And thats we were headed. So I feel very good about what we were able to do with the America West team through the merger because believe me the standalone plan was not gonna work. So again I mean thats hard for you to appreciate because you never saw it but, you know, it was coming. So thats point 1.
Phoenix Crew News February 6, 2007
Pilot: I hear you stand there and talk about how great the view is on your side of the podium is like my compatriot Coladio saying on this side we are pretty upset. You are touting all these improvements but I just wanted to tell you from our view what weve seen accomplished. Since this merger was announced it has been complete stagnation for our pilot group. Our schedules are what we are able to do as far as bidding that type of thing. None of that has improved. The pilots that were hired here three years ago have the same schedules that they had. They dont have weekends off. They spend the same amount of time away from their families. Pilots that we had in our hiring pool were sent home. Pilots that are on the east pilot group are being recalled. America West and this pilot group put you in a position to where you could acquire US Airways. We dont see that as fair at all. Speaking of unfair, the seniority boarding thing youve come out with we view it as a real farce. Its not seniority boarding, its date of hire. Theres people that are on furlough-- pilots that are on furlough that have a greater day of hire than me. They dont have a job right now when they come back they are going to bump me out of a seat. Its also a violation of our contract Section 26 says you cant make any changes to that benefit. Weve also heard from Scott Kirby that this cost neutral thing was a big mistake and we were told to expect some changes at the bargaining table. Last time we were at bargaining it was pretty apparent from our side that management didnt spend any time they just came in handed sections out of the east contract. If we follow through on our plan of action while flying an aircraft the way that management is following through on their plan of action, there would be craters in the desert. The question I have for you today is if you agree that as pilots that we should focus on doing our jobs and running this airline as safely as possible.
CEO Doug Parker: The answer to that question is Yes. And let me talk about some of the comments you made. First off, as to the stagnation of growth for America West pilots since the merger what I will tell you is, and this is a hard thing to communicate to people but I believe it with all my heart, that if we didnt do the merger with US Airways youd be in a lot worse position. And frankly I think as a 3-year FO, you wouldnt have a job. We would have gone through a bankruptcy filing. We would have downsized. We had an airline at America West that had 20% lower unit revenues than US Airways and now has the same unit cost. That airline could not survive. We would try to make it better. Wed go file bankruptcy. Wed get ourselves a little stronger now the economy is back wed be trying to come out like Delta is. But I swear to you that airline was going to file bankruptcy. When it filed bankruptcy we would have downsized at least 15% and you know while you feel bad about stagnation, you should feel better about that versus where you were headed. And thats we were headed. So I feel very good about what we were able to do with the America West team through the merger because believe me the standalone plan was not gonna work. So again I mean thats hard for you to appreciate because you never saw it but, you know, it was coming. So thats point 1.
David Simmons is merely a purveyor of fairy tales. He has been an ill informed and woefully inadequate advocate for those who elected him and rely on his information.
PHX pilots should be asking him serious questions as to why his statements of fact fly in the face of court record and statements by the leaders of American Airlines. To this day Mr. Simmons is confounded as to why the list called the Nicolau still is not in effect nor published in any official American Airlines documents or seniority list. Ask him why when you see him.
PHX pilots should be asking him serious questions as to why his statements of fact fly in the face of court record and statements by the leaders of American Airlines. To this day Mr. Simmons is confounded as to why the list called the Nicolau still is not in effect nor published in any official American Airlines documents or seniority list. Ask him why when you see him.
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