2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nevergiveup]

We don't negotiate with terrorists, Liar...er Luvr.

"Attention. ...Will George Nicolau please meet his party in the Final & Binding Lounge."

Please read the agreement....George did....USAPA did....most of the west pilots did....it's your turn!

 

[luvthe9]

You mean this?
 

That's the one, he is one proud scab fit to work only at AWA.

 

[luvthe9]

We don't negotiate with terrorists, Liar...er Luvr.
"Attention. ...Will George Nicolau please meet his party in the Final & Binding Lounge."

I think a lot of the other west pilots would disagree as you and your little AFO group have hurt the rest of your guys wallets big time, maybe consult the bible on greed, Dave.

 

[EastUS1]

True. Goliath, while getting his vaunted left seat, lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS (and time off / rest). We'll played (dumba$$).

 
Hmm...That necessarily begs the question of just what $ amount  you feel a person should surrender his/her self respect and sell out all their principles and values for?  It's now obvious you believe there's a cut point there somewhere, so what'd be your price? After all; anyone who failed to completely sell out their belief system for a few bucks seems a "(dumba$$)" to you...Right? Does "We've just determined what you are. We're just haggling over price now" sound at all familiar?
 
You may now continue indulging your absurdly self righteous, childish fantasies, oh great slayer of Goliath, and please do keep sharing them with us all as a dependable source of daily laughs...Oh!....And do be careful to watch out for all those "terrorists" while you're at it! 😉

 

[Phoenix]

Are we opening up a discussion on "metal" & the destructive actions that harm metal now?

 
 
Are you the one over on C&R getting berated by the LAA pilots for badmouthing pilots who have incidents or accidents?  
 
All that money and devotion to Leospanker and their delivery is so empty you have been forced to resort to this to feel like you are winning.  You should go back to chattering.  

 

[cactusboy53]

Are you the one over on C&R getting berated by the LAA pilots for badmouthing pilots who have incidents or accidents?  
 
All that money and devotion to Leospanker and their delivery is so empty you have been forced to resort to this to feel like you are winning.  You should go back to chattering.

No. I believe it was Clax or Luvr that asked about metallurgy. I was just seeking clarification on subject matter. We know how sensitive you boys can be about things (the unfairness of arbitrations, mens accessories, how we chose to support / defend attacks on final & binding arbitrations, etc.).

 

[cactusboy53]

Hmm...That necessarily begs the question of just what $ amount  you feel a person should surrender his/her self respect and sell out all their principles and values for?  It's now obvious you believe there's a cut point there somewhere, so what'd be your price? After all; anyone who failed to completely sell out their belief system for a few bucks seems a "(dumba$$)" to you...Right? Does "We've just determined what you are. We're just haggling over price now" sound at all familiar?
 
You may now continue indulging your absurdly self righteous, childish fantasies, oh great slayer of Goliath, and please do keep sharing them with us all as a dependable source of daily laughs...Oh!....And do be careful to watch out for all those "terrorists" while you're at it! 😉

What ever Mikey. The "Jess" will be revealed tomorrow. I wonder what magical formula Jess & his team will have to explain to the Arbitration Panel that it acceptable to toss out the previous Final & Binding arbitration (that all parties agreed to).

You go girl!

 

[cactusboy53]

I think a lot of the other west pilots would disagree as you and your little AFO group have hurt the rest of your guys wallets big time, maybe consult the bible on greed, Dave.

Then that still makes you a LIAR and a poor judge of character. If there was more than one I'd be floored.

 

[EastCheats]

What ever Mikey. The "Jess" will be revealed tomorrow. I wonder what magical formula Jess & his team will have to explain to the Arbitration Panel that it acceptable to toss out the previous Final & Binding arbitration (that all parties agreed to).

You go girl!

 
Maybe Mikey can get Sully to show up and present the Jess.

 

[cactusboy53]

Please read the agreement....George did....USAPA did....most of the west pilots did....it's your turn!

OK.  I guess I'm a little confused.  Would you be speaking about this agreement:
 
[SIZE=12pt]“In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]George Nicolau, Mediator[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007[/SIZE]
 
It seems so sad that you want the West pilots to read something into the MOU & Protocol Agreement that (IMHO) are simply not there.  Conversely we are trying to make you understand that while changing your name to USAPA (Girl Scouts of America, Angry Men in a Van Down by the River, etc.), it does NOT give you the ability to evade YOUR obligation from your prior Collective Bargaining Agent.  Here's another snipit to make my point:
 
[SIZE=12pt]The National Mediation Board on the subject of contract continuity:[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]"When there is an agreement in effect between a carrier and its employees signed by one set of representatives and employees choose new representatives who are certified by the Board, the Board has taken the position that a change in representation does NOT ALTER OR CANCEL ANY EXISTING AGREEMENT [/SIZE]made on behalf of the employees by the previous representatives.  The only effect of a certification by the Board is that the employees have chosen other agents to represent them in dealing with the management under the existing agreement”
 
I really don't have the slightest idea how the Arbitration Panel will rule on the three methodologies presented.  I do know that NO arbitrated award has ever been cast out by the courts or another arbitration panel.  If you are looking for clues to how this will finish, you might read the Pre-Arbitration transcripts.  Here's how that panel addressed USAPA Merger Committee Chairman Jess Pauley:
 
[SIZE=12pt]In the matter of: Preliminary Arbitration Board APA/USAPA/AA (December 17, 2014)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list? ….. And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]and issued back in '07.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]MR. FREUND (in closing):As the Chairman put it so nicely in his questioning of Jess Pauley, what the US -- what the East Committee, the US Airways Committee, the USAPA Committee, call it what you want, what it wants to do is to put itself in the place of George Nicolau and redo what George did in 2007.[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

You guys are the scabs, remember, do we need to put the Ansett video of your friend up again, I'll get Clax to post it for you.

That would be just CRIMInal to try and do that.  What a little RAY of sunshine you are today.  B)

 

[snapthis]

Maybe Mikey can get Sully to show up and present the Jess.

I would not put it beyond them. Remember, just a few months after the Hudson, USAPA brought him into court, a person who was disconnected with the process, yet an "expert" witness. I like how Marty Harper exposed questions about his character through his questioning.

Jury Trial - Day 4 - Testimony of Chesley Sullenberger

Q. Are you presently a USAPA supporter?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. And why is that?
A. I'm a USAPA supporter because USAPA has done everything
that they promised they would do. In a fair way, they have
presented a Date-of-Hire list to management that includes
conditions and restrictions to protect jobs. They have a more
democratic process. And for me personally, and for my crew,
they have done much to support me since the events of January
15th and the entire crew.


Q. Just so we understand each other, you were not on the East
merger committee who went through the process under ALPA merger
to arrive at the Nicolau Award, were you?
A. I was not.

Q. And we've heard testimony here about a session that was
held on May 21, 2007, at ALPA headquarters. Were you there
that day?
A. No, I was not.

Q. So you did not go down and picket with the East Pilots on
that occasion?
A. I was not there.

THE WITNESS: The issue of final and binding, I
believe, is a matter for this jury to decide. My understanding
is that the ALPA process was flawed and resulted in an impasse
that would never have allowed the Nicolau List to be
implemented.

BY MR. HARPER:
Q. Well, Captain Sullenberger, the jury is not going to decide
whether the Nicolau Award is final and binding. So you are
wrong on that.


He seemed so disconnected that he communicated thoughts about the Nic 7 years before it's release.

Q. Did you ever communicate your views to the -- on the Nic to
ALPA president John Prater?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Without telling us what he said, would you tell us what you
communicated to him?
A. I'd be glad to.
In the early fall of 2000, Captain John Prater,
president of the Air Line Pilots Association, came to Charlotte
and met with some of the US Airways pilots to talk about this
situation. I addressed him in a passionate way, and I told him
that the first thing I wanted him to understand was that I was
not motivated by self-interest because I was senior enough I
would not be directly affected by the Nicolau Award, but that I
thought that there was no way, no rationale possible that could
explain away, providing someone at the former America West who
had been at the company only two or three months before the
merger was announced, to be senior to someone who had been at
the former East 16 or more years before the merge was
announced. It simply wasn't right. It was a matter of
principal.

Then we get to hear this..story..about integrity:

I said this reminds me of a situation that occurred
one time when my older daughter was very small and I was
driving her school, to grade school. And out of the blue she
asked one of those questions parents are never quite prepared
to answer. And she said -- it wasn't where do babies come from
or why is the sky blue. Instead, it was, "Daddy, what does
integrity mean?" And after a few moments I came up with an
answer that, in retrospect, was probably a pretty good one. I
said, "Integrity means doing the right thing even if it's not
convenient."

If you give your word, shouldn't you keep it? Yes I do but....
It's not yes but, it's yes or no.

Q. So you would agree with me, wouldn't you, that when a pilot
gives his word, he or she should keep it?
A. Yes, I do, but as in most things in life, this has
consequences.

 

[cactusboy53]

 
If derision based on antiquity rules the day: Where does that logically place the nic from "8 YEARS AGO?"

 
I'd say that is up to the Arbitration Panel, Mikey.  I expect that when that panel rules, we (the West pilots) will make some sort of commentary and then move on since we agreed to the process and outcome / product of that process.
 
Conversely, when the Arbitration Panel delivers something that does not meet your self-aggrandized, revisionist history expectations...you will cry, kick, scream, panic, call out the CIRP team and urinate away what money the courts have decided you can keep.  THEN you will try to rally the troops to fund some ill-fated Hail-Mary pass to balk at the agreed upon product. 
 
Now I'm just spit balling here, but what are the odds of that happening??

 

[CactusPilot1]

I think a lot of the other west pilots would disagree as you and your little AFO group have hurt the rest of your guys wallets big time, maybe consult the bible on greed, Dave.

You wrote the book with spelling errors on greed.
 

Then that still makes you a LIAR and a poor judge of character. If there was more than one I'd be floored.

 
How could you stand to be in the same room with that garbage? There was not enough soap to wash the stench off just walking past the office on a layover.  

 

 

[Phoenix]

What ever Mikey. The "Jess" will be revealed tomorrow. I wonder what magical formula Jess & his team will have to explain to the Arbitration Panel that it acceptable to toss out the previous Final & Binding arbitration (that all parties agreed to).

You go girl!

 
 
"acceptable to toss out"...?  You are the king of "implicit assumption" that the Nic is not contractually already piled up with all the other former contractual agreements that are a ratified nullity.  
 
"Fair and equitable" is within a wide range of reasonableness, especially when it is determined by an arbitration panel.  Implicit assumptions are merely a desperate strategy.. perhaps pawned off by pilots pretending to be lawyers in partnership with lawyers who always wanted to screw pilots.    
 
"Fair and equitable" resides in a very, very, wide continuum.  
 
Keep counting your chickens.