2015 Pilot Discussion.
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Claxon said:
traderjake
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luvthe9 said:
From the company's filing the DOJ case in 2013........."The harsh reality is that over the last twelve years American lost $10.3 billion and US Airways lost $3.4 billion. US Airways filed for bankruptcy twice during that period and without the merger with America West Airlines would have liquidated." USAirways response in DOJ Doc 79 page 4.
traderjake
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Claxon said:
That would have been better if your Mom had sung it.
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Fine. Almost all agree with this statement.traderjake said:
American LOST $10.3 billion over 12 years and filed BK ONCE.
US Airways LOST $3.4 billion over 12 years and filed BK twice.
Without the merger, US Airways would have liquidated.
All FACTS.
This brings us to ONE SIMPLE QUESTION:
Where was AWA going to get the money or ANY money to BUY any of the ASSETS of the purported LIQUIDATED US Airways when DELTA, SWA, UNITED and CONTINENTAL (not to mention JB, Spirit, etc.) had so much more cash to OUTBID ANY OFFER AWA was able to offer ABSENT MERGER?
This is an HONEST question. One which Parker and Kirby continue to support to this day. Pilots want to be lawyers and CEO'S they just don't want to assume the responsibility of the decisions that come with the territory.
Simple questions.
1. Did or COULD AWA get enough cash from investors to OUTBID the competition?
2. Additionally, is it POSSIBLE that AWA could have precluded their own BK in 2005 at the height of the oil price crisis?
(I don't expect honest answers....hence let the epitaphs fly.)
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"We were the poster child for the ATSB program. We literally were an airline that could raise money before 9/11 but with the capital markets closed couldn't raise it," he recalled. "Without a loan guarantee we were going to find ourselves liquidating."traderjake said:
"Without a loan guarantee we were going to find ourselves liquidating." The $380 million loan guarantee was approved on a split vote, with a Treasury official voting no and the federal government controlled a third of the company.
"America West Airlines Inc. 10-Q government guaranteed loan require us to maintain a minimum cash balance of $100 million, and restrict our ability to take certain other actions, including mergers and acquisitions, investments and asset sales."
"PHX Crew News May 29th 2008 Scott Kirby: "I feel 100% certain that every single person in this room is better off because of the last merger occurred, there is a high probability that none of us would have jobs, at least not at this airline,"
"May 9 Scott Kirby, revealed Project Zanzibar It is now beyond dispute that the junior AW pilot, Dave Odell, and 300-400 other AW F/Os hired in 2002-05 would have been furloughed absent the US merger, as AW went into Chapter 11, perhaps never to emerge."
Your the village idiot, Dan, Pappy must be disappointed in you!
traderjake
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traderjake said:with some "nice conditions and restrictions"
Really Dan. Just answer the questions. I'm not interested in prejudging. Are Parker and Kirby wrong? Did they have unlimited access to money to fund any asset purchase?end_of_alpa said:
How about an HONEST answer???
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end_of_alpa said:
The point is that without the merger the overwhelming probability was liquidation and that's why Nicolau gave us no credit for longevity.
davebrough Apr 28, 2011
@ Bob Kolker (NYMAG)
...when (Sully) decided on a water landing, he was not thinking outside the box. He was settling on what most pilots understood to be the best possible option in a scenario with no good options at all.
First, off, Bob, by gawking the beautiful view of the Hudson Sullenberger and Skiles authored the entire scenario. Had they kept their eyeballs where they were being paid to keep them, they would have seen the birds in plenty of time to nudge the aircraft out of the way. They didn't and they didn't. By the time he decided on the water landing, Sully had pissed away the 30 second window that he had to make it back to LGA which clearly was his best option - not the water.
What made it impressive was that he decided this so quickly, seemingly without flinching.
Au contraire. By his actions and inactions, it is clear that parts of Sullenberger were, indeed, flinching. The part that should have been working, his brain, was, unfortunately, seized with fear. Those two blew it in every conceivable way, and the day was only saved by an alignment of some of most incredible luck ever. This was clearly a case of reckless endangerment if ever there were, meaning that Sullenberger should be facing jail time. And when the feathers settle, that just may be the case.
Does Eric Auxier contribute to this mag?
@ Bob Kolker (NYMAG)
...when (Sully) decided on a water landing, he was not thinking outside the box. He was settling on what most pilots understood to be the best possible option in a scenario with no good options at all.
First, off, Bob, by gawking the beautiful view of the Hudson Sullenberger and Skiles authored the entire scenario. Had they kept their eyeballs where they were being paid to keep them, they would have seen the birds in plenty of time to nudge the aircraft out of the way. They didn't and they didn't. By the time he decided on the water landing, Sully had pissed away the 30 second window that he had to make it back to LGA which clearly was his best option - not the water.
What made it impressive was that he decided this so quickly, seemingly without flinching.
Au contraire. By his actions and inactions, it is clear that parts of Sullenberger were, indeed, flinching. The part that should have been working, his brain, was, unfortunately, seized with fear. Those two blew it in every conceivable way, and the day was only saved by an alignment of some of most incredible luck ever. This was clearly a case of reckless endangerment if ever there were, meaning that Sullenberger should be facing jail time. And when the feathers settle, that just may be the case.
Does Eric Auxier contribute to this mag?
Metroyet
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There WAS no competition. Nobody wanted US Airways.You'd have to have another bidding party to "outbit" it. There was none.end_of_alpa said:
Are you suggesting that an airline weeks away from liquidation funded it's own merger? AWA hasn't been in BK since the first gulf war in 1991. Your Point?
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