2015 Pilot Discussion.
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luvthe9
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Yea Kev, that's we we have one year captains and new hire wide body F/Os and rapid upward movement, you can feed the fish in the stagnant PHX fishbowl.Metroyet said:yeah, that why the 9th just pinned you down the list where you belong Furloughee!
"One of the four Leonidas LLC directors is apparently now employed as an American Airlines pilot;\
Having Kevin Horner associated in any way with this DFR only hurts the effort. How can he adequately meet the fiduciary requirements to fairly represent the class? Our sources have told us that Kevin Horners current union, the APA, is furious with him for his participation in a DFR suit against another union."
"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."
U-Turn
All we at U-Turn can say is: WE TOLD YOU SO!.....................should have listened Davey boy
luvthe9
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Just like in the B-757 IOU, the E-190 arbitration IOU and unbalanced East-West flying, our MEC ended up getting 175 West pilots furloughed, because they refused to negotiate and THEY TURNED DOWN THE OFFER!
From what we’ve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MEC’s refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave O’Dell from being furloughed. You turned it down.
So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume’, just remember who didn’t “SAVE DAVE.”
If the former West MEC goes after us on the facts, we’ll have to put out more details, including actual statements from those who were there on both sides. But that’s the former MEC’s call.
(Go ahead, former MEC members. Deny the truth. Look every pilot facing furlough in the eye and tell them about holding the line at Wye River. Want to talk? We’ll give you our forum to explain yourselves.)
Upcoming U-Turns: (Something that caught U-Turn off guard) Is the NIC negotiable? The case for DFR. Why Wye River’s failure will hurt even senior pilots. Were does Ken Straves stand on Wye River? What does Ken Straver say happened at Wye River? Battling ALPA one week, supporting them the next? Is this Alice In Wonderland or what?
Editor at large for the U-Turn.
From what we’ve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MEC’s refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave O’Dell from being furloughed. You turned it down.
So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume’, just remember who didn’t “SAVE DAVE.”
If the former West MEC goes after us on the facts, we’ll have to put out more details, including actual statements from those who were there on both sides. But that’s the former MEC’s call.
(Go ahead, former MEC members. Deny the truth. Look every pilot facing furlough in the eye and tell them about holding the line at Wye River. Want to talk? We’ll give you our forum to explain yourselves.)
Upcoming U-Turns: (Something that caught U-Turn off guard) Is the NIC negotiable? The case for DFR. Why Wye River’s failure will hurt even senior pilots. Were does Ken Straves stand on Wye River? What does Ken Straver say happened at Wye River? Battling ALPA one week, supporting them the next? Is this Alice In Wonderland or what?
Editor at large for the U-Turn.
snapthis
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Keep looking over your shoulder, Luv.
From: Marty Harper Subject:
Notice to USAPA and its
Officers and Directors
To: John Gresham Brian O'Dwyer , Gary Silverman Marty Harper Kelly J. Flood Mr. Jeffrey Freund
Pierce, C. Grainger Jr.
Counsel,
The Ninth Circuit Court of appeals included in its opinion dated June 26 a remand for the
District Court to address the West Pilots claim for attorneys fees, which was based on the
common benefit doctrine. Consequently, the West Pilots are currently creditors of USAPA, and will
seek reimbursement for their attorneys fees and costs immediately upon issuance of the mandate.
Even before the Ninth Circuit issued its opinion, USAPA and its officers and directors have
acknowledged numerous times in publications to USAPA members that prior to being able to
distribute excess treasury funds at dissolution to members on a pro rata basis, USAPA needs to
reserve funds for USAPAs heretofore potential liability for the West Pilots attorneys fees and
costs in the Addington litigation in its various iterations. USAPA and its officers and directors have
also made avowals to the court in North Carolina to this effect. This is consistent with USAPAs
Constitution and Bylaws, Article I, Section 3(A)(All assets shall be liquidated, less any
indebtedness) USAPA and its officers and directors are on notice at this time that the potential
amount of USAPAs indebtedness for the West Pilots attorneys fees and costs sought under the
common benefit doctrine is at least approximately $4+ million. Based upon the Ninth Circuits
conclusion confirming that USAPA has acted only on behalf of East Pilots, USAPA should reserve
the $4 million out of East Pilots share of whatever treasury funds will be distributed, and not out of
the West Pilots share.
To the extent that USAPA intends to quickly dissolve and begin to disburse its treasury
funds, USAPA and its officers and directors must reserve at least $4 million as potential liability to
the West Pilots for attorneys fees and costs, out of the East Pilots share. Should the officers and
directors of USAPA authorize USAPA to distribute all of its funds without appropriately accounting
for and reserving this amount, the officers and directors, and any attorneys who counsel them to
do so, may be personally jointly and severally liable for fraudulent transfers. This is true under
North Carolina law (Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act , N.C. Gen. Stat. § 39-23.4, et seq) even
though the debt is not yet reduced to a judgment. See, e.g., Kirkhart v. Saieed, 107 N.C.App. 293,
294, 419 S.E.2d 580 (1992) (holding that a creditor is entitled to protection from fraudulent
transfers even though a debtor transfers the assets prior to the creditor obtaining judgment against
the debtor). Because USAPA and its officers and directors are on notice that the West Pilots
claim for fees based on the common benefit doctrine is imminent on issuance of the mandate, if
USAPA fails to properly reserve the funds and, instead, depletes its treasury rendering it insolvent
and unable to pay the debt owed to the West Pilots, USAPA, its officers and directors, and lawyers
who counseled them to do so will be held liable for fraudulent transfers.
The US Bankruptcy code provisions regarding fraudulent transfers, in an action brought
under the NC Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act, have been applied to simple transfers of money
into bank accounts. See, e.g., In re Jenkins, Case No. 12-50413, Adversary Proceeding No. 12-
5033, United States Bankruptcy Court, W.D. North Carolina, Charlotte Division (December 12,
2012):
A transfer is a disposition of an interest in property. The definition is as broad as possible . . . .
Under this definition any transfer of an interest in property is a transfer, including a transfer of
possession, custody or control even if there is no transfer of title, because possession, custody,
and control are interests in property. A deposit in a bank account or similar account is a transfer.
In re Pulliam, 279 B.R. 916, 920 (Bankr. M.D. Ga. 2002) (quoting S.Rep. No. 95-989, 95th Cong.
2d Sess. 27 (1978), U.S. Code Cong. & Admin. News 1978, pp. 5787, 5813) (emphasis added).
To conclude, to the extent that USAPA intends to dissolve at this time and begins the
distribution of its treasury funds to members, it must first reserve at least $4 million out of the East
distribution of its treasury funds to members, it must first reserve at least $4 million out of the East
Pilots share as indebtedness to the West Pilots for attorneys fees and costs.
Thank you,
Marty
From: Marty Harper Subject:
Notice to USAPA and its
Officers and Directors
To: John Gresham Brian O'Dwyer , Gary Silverman Marty Harper Kelly J. Flood Mr. Jeffrey Freund
Pierce, C. Grainger Jr.
Counsel,
The Ninth Circuit Court of appeals included in its opinion dated June 26 a remand for the
District Court to address the West Pilots claim for attorneys fees, which was based on the
common benefit doctrine. Consequently, the West Pilots are currently creditors of USAPA, and will
seek reimbursement for their attorneys fees and costs immediately upon issuance of the mandate.
Even before the Ninth Circuit issued its opinion, USAPA and its officers and directors have
acknowledged numerous times in publications to USAPA members that prior to being able to
distribute excess treasury funds at dissolution to members on a pro rata basis, USAPA needs to
reserve funds for USAPAs heretofore potential liability for the West Pilots attorneys fees and
costs in the Addington litigation in its various iterations. USAPA and its officers and directors have
also made avowals to the court in North Carolina to this effect. This is consistent with USAPAs
Constitution and Bylaws, Article I, Section 3(A)(All assets shall be liquidated, less any
indebtedness) USAPA and its officers and directors are on notice at this time that the potential
amount of USAPAs indebtedness for the West Pilots attorneys fees and costs sought under the
common benefit doctrine is at least approximately $4+ million. Based upon the Ninth Circuits
conclusion confirming that USAPA has acted only on behalf of East Pilots, USAPA should reserve
the $4 million out of East Pilots share of whatever treasury funds will be distributed, and not out of
the West Pilots share.
To the extent that USAPA intends to quickly dissolve and begin to disburse its treasury
funds, USAPA and its officers and directors must reserve at least $4 million as potential liability to
the West Pilots for attorneys fees and costs, out of the East Pilots share. Should the officers and
directors of USAPA authorize USAPA to distribute all of its funds without appropriately accounting
for and reserving this amount, the officers and directors, and any attorneys who counsel them to
do so, may be personally jointly and severally liable for fraudulent transfers. This is true under
North Carolina law (Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act , N.C. Gen. Stat. § 39-23.4, et seq) even
though the debt is not yet reduced to a judgment. See, e.g., Kirkhart v. Saieed, 107 N.C.App. 293,
294, 419 S.E.2d 580 (1992) (holding that a creditor is entitled to protection from fraudulent
transfers even though a debtor transfers the assets prior to the creditor obtaining judgment against
the debtor). Because USAPA and its officers and directors are on notice that the West Pilots
claim for fees based on the common benefit doctrine is imminent on issuance of the mandate, if
USAPA fails to properly reserve the funds and, instead, depletes its treasury rendering it insolvent
and unable to pay the debt owed to the West Pilots, USAPA, its officers and directors, and lawyers
who counseled them to do so will be held liable for fraudulent transfers.
The US Bankruptcy code provisions regarding fraudulent transfers, in an action brought
under the NC Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act, have been applied to simple transfers of money
into bank accounts. See, e.g., In re Jenkins, Case No. 12-50413, Adversary Proceeding No. 12-
5033, United States Bankruptcy Court, W.D. North Carolina, Charlotte Division (December 12,
2012):
A transfer is a disposition of an interest in property. The definition is as broad as possible . . . .
Under this definition any transfer of an interest in property is a transfer, including a transfer of
possession, custody or control even if there is no transfer of title, because possession, custody,
and control are interests in property. A deposit in a bank account or similar account is a transfer.
In re Pulliam, 279 B.R. 916, 920 (Bankr. M.D. Ga. 2002) (quoting S.Rep. No. 95-989, 95th Cong.
2d Sess. 27 (1978), U.S. Code Cong. & Admin. News 1978, pp. 5787, 5813) (emphasis added).
To conclude, to the extent that USAPA intends to dissolve at this time and begins the
distribution of its treasury funds to members, it must first reserve at least $4 million out of the East
distribution of its treasury funds to members, it must first reserve at least $4 million out of the East
Pilots share as indebtedness to the West Pilots for attorneys fees and costs.
Thank you,
Marty
luvthe9
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(Go ahead, former MEC members. Deny the truth. Look every pilot facing furlough in the eye and tell them about holding the line at Wye River. Want to talk? Well give you our forum to explain yourselves.)
This is directed to Dave Simmons,..........liar extraordinaire.........Dave sure does like to "deny the truth". Big smiles Dave
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year".........Pink Floyd.
This is directed to Dave Simmons,..........liar extraordinaire.........Dave sure does like to "deny the truth". Big smiles Dave
"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year".........Pink Floyd.
luvthe9
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"So, why didnt Bradford testify? Its because Marty Harper simply screwed up! He caused the delay. When the Addington plaintiffs filed an amended class action complaint they caused a delay. Bradford was then out of Office and therefore not subject to subpoena."
No worries SpinThis, it's all good out east............remember YOU scabs CHOSE to live in the fishbowl!
What are we going to do for entertainment when this is all over?............so much fun.
No worries SpinThis, it's all good out east............remember YOU scabs CHOSE to live in the fishbowl!
What are we going to do for entertainment when this is all over?............so much fun.
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You lose in court and start making up crap. It's what unethical losers do.
flyingskier
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Wow, is all I can say. I rarely post here, some westie did something that was way over the line. Instead of helping to stop this type of behavior, you call me a liar. It is extremely unfortunate that I had to post this at all. Based on your reaction, each reader can reach their own conclusion..CactusPilot1 said:
Skier
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luvthe9 said:
The fishbowl will be all yours...Combined ops.
Hope you enjoy flying holidays.
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