2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]The Board shall retain jurisdiction[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] in accordance with Section H. 5 .b. of the ALPA Merger Policy to resolve any disputes over the meaning or interpretation of this Award. This retention of jurisdiction shall terminate when all provisions of the Award have been satisfied. In the event the Chairman becomes unavailable or unwilling to serve to resolve such disputes, the Merger Committees will agree on a replacement Chairman or will select one by the alternate strike method from the most recent ALPA list of seniority integrations arbitrators.  In the event one of the Pilot Neutrals becomes unable or unwilling to serve on the Arbitration Board to resolve such disputes, the Chairman, after consultation with the Parties, shall decide how to proceed.  In any such arbitration, if there is a dispute between the methodology contained in the Award and the accompanying Integrated Seniority List or any other list purportedly using such methodology, the Seniority List prevails.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]George Nicolau, Mediator[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]You do realize that the SAME organization that the esteemed Geo. Nicolau works for is the SAME organization that our BOA work for....right??  [/SIZE]

 

[luvthe9]

And then el Presidente' Mike Cleary TOLD YOU THIS when you thought you would run right over and fly UAL's Boeing 777's (entitled....who'd have thought!):
 
The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Boards Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPAs President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA. No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.
 
US Airwaves June/July 2000
US Air Merger Committee Members: Todd Cardoza (PIT), Mike Cleary (BOS),Randy Mowery (PIT)
 
Keep your sense of humor Johnny Boy, you will really need it (IMHO).  Cue USEast with some sort of blather that I will not even waste my time reading in 3-2-1.... 😀.  

Fwd: Phoenix to lose it's work rules, and left to suffocate in the fishbowl.....





Maybe you're not getting enough oxygen.............fair and equitable






"Once again, U-Turn warned you. Guys, the AWAPPA leaders are the same ones who messed up when they were in office. Its time to stop listening to them. "

Dave Blomgren, for the Mighty U-Turn






Wye did you not listen.........he had all the right answers.........and what did you do.........screwed your pilot group over.

 

[Claxon]

http://youtu.be/-Uauq6JBkvk

NoNic4US continues to claim all is well. NoNic4US claims west pilots are paid more than east 330 drivers. The MOU pay rates clearly prove NoNic4 US is a liar.
Meanwhile the PHX Leonidas Cadre continues to lament about the FISHBOWL.
What is it CB53?

 

[EastUS1]

..... I can arrange a personal meeting with the esteemed Capt. Aux. ...

And then....

 
 
And then what?...Just more whining/lying, mighty "spartan"?
 
"You'se", very clearly, have absolutely no idea of just how much genuine laughter you've provided for us all these past years.
 
"Oh well, just keep posting more ancient drivel from lawyers....if it somehow helps you sleep at night.  Permit the rest of us to very properly, just laugh."  😉

 

[luvthe9]

http://youtu.be/-Uauq6JBkvk
NoNic4US continues to claim all is well.
Meanwhile the PHX Leonidas Cadre continues to lament about the FISHBOWL.
What is it CB53?

Hey I can see flounder, is that Aux and Nic4....... Guess it's just PHX.





Reminds me of Pink Floyd swimming in a fishbowl year after year....

 

[Claxon]

The PHX Fishbowl will start to be drained in the latter months of 2017. Mark this post as fact. Soon Southwest Airlines will own most of the PHX flying. Ask Russ.
CB53 will be on the 190 Capt list in PHL, foaming at the mouth with new hires who could honestly care less about his lost cause.

 

[EastUS1]

 
[SIZE=12pt]Cue USEast with some sort of blather that I will not even waste my time reading in 3-2-1.... 😀.   [/SIZE]

 

 

 
Methinks "you'se" doth protest too much milady. It really isn't my fault at all that you're just a spineless, lying little wimp who's clearly suffering sad delusions of "spartan" grandeur.
 
Now then; quickly post yet another meaningless bit of legal trivia from times far past to help "you'se" feel at least a bit better about yourself.
 
 

..... I can arrange a personal meeting with the esteemed Capt. Aux. ...

 
So make it so already....? The wager's always open, and has been for 8 years now. When might I expect to meet with even just "the esteemed Capt. Aux."?...Or were "you'se" (as usual)  lying about even being able to so much as "arrange a personal meeting with the esteemed Capt. Aux. ..."?  Let none of us offer any unfair insult to your "Integrity", "Honor" and of course "Word" here, so it would seem at least somewhat incumbent on you to even slightly back up even some small portion of those notions...No? Don't forget just how much "Integrity Matters" to "you'se"....Right?
 
The mighty "spartans" of PHX; a never-ending source of laughter. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

 
Methinks "you'se" doth protest too much milady. It really isn't my fault at all that you're just a spineless, lying little wimp who's clearly suffering sad delusions of "spartan" grandeur.
 
Now then; quickly post yet another meaningless bit of legal trivia from times far past to help "you'se" feel at least a bit better about yourself.
 
 
 
So make it so already....? The wager's always open, and has been for 8 years now. When might I expect to meet with even just "the esteemed Capt. Aux."?...Or were "you'se" (as usual)  lying about even being able to so much as "arrange a personal meeting with the esteemed Capt. Aux. ..."?  Let none of us offer any unfair insult to your "Integrity", "Honor" and of course "Word" here, so it would seem at least somewhat incumbent on you to even slightly back up even some small portion of those notions...No? Don't forget just how much "Integrity Matters" to "you'se"....Right?
 
The mighty "spartans" of PHX; a never-ending source of laughter. 😉

 
Sorry cactus"boy", but "you'se" are simply a sad little joke. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Try to prove me wrong at your very earliest convenience....?
 
[SIZE=12pt]cactus"boy":Cue USEast with some sort of blather that I will not even waste my time reading in 3-2-1..." Others on the board can actually read, and are thus unlikely to see you as anything but who and what you are. For that;  you've my condolence, but it's all of your own making.[/SIZE]
 
"Now then; quickly post yet another meaningless bit of legal trivia from times far past to help "you'se" feel at least a bit better about yourself."
 
P.S. Should "you'se" feel merely legal trivia inadequate, well...we could always get some more good laughs from repeats of your previous shouts of "This is Sparta!", or perhaps better yet; your again "heroically" posting an Army of the Republic of Texas Battle Flag.....?  Not that "I can arrange a personal meeting with the esteemed Capt. Aux." wasn't funny enough, but still.

 

[end_of_alpa]

And then the 9th said this:
 
[SIZE=12pt]US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit                                                                       26 June 2015[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation.  USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty.  Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”[/SIZE]
 
Gee....I wonder who helped the "East Pilot Seniority Committee" with all of those slides and presentations.  Didn't Judge Silver WARN any other party about USAPA's help &/or participation??  Things that make you go...HMMMMMMMM.

 
 

So I infer that if the BOA doesn't use the Nicolau award then you'll be in court suing that the award violates the Ninth Circuit ruling (or something to that effect.)  Here it is more corporate threats.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
[SIZE=12pt]The Board shall retain jurisdiction[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] in accordance with Section H. 5 .b. of the ALPA Merger Policy to resolve any disputes over the meaning or interpretation of this Award. This retention of jurisdiction shall terminate when all provisions of the Award have been satisfied. In the event the Chairman becomes unavailable or unwilling to serve to resolve such disputes, the Merger Committees will agree on a replacement Chairman or will select one by the alternate strike method from the most recent ALPA list of seniority integrations arbitrators.  In the event one of the Pilot Neutrals becomes unable or unwilling to serve on the Arbitration Board to resolve such disputes, the Chairman, after consultation with the Parties, shall decide how to proceed.  In any such arbitration, if there is a dispute between the methodology contained in the Award and the accompanying Integrated Seniority List or any other list purportedly using such methodology, the Seniority List prevails.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]George Nicolau, Mediator[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]You do realize that the SAME organization that the esteemed Geo. Nicolau works for is the SAME organization that our BOA work for....right??  [/SIZE]

 

 
Yeah.  You asswipes have heard a lot from Nicolau in the almost 9 years since he wrote that.  Enjoying George's support with his "Board's retention of jurisdiction"?  How's that worked out for you so far?    How many A330 seats have gone to sandbox denizens so far in the last 9 years?    Where's George and his Board been for 9 years?
 
Why not appeal to George's Board to intervene here?  What's stopping you?

 

[cactusboy53]

 
Yeah.  You asswipes have heard a lot from Nicolau in the almost 9 years since he wrote that.  Enjoying George's support with his "Board's retention of jurisdiction"?  How's that worked out for you so far?    How many A330 seats have gone to sandbox denizens so far in the last 9 years?    Where's George and his Board been for 9 years?
 
Why not appeal to George's Board to intervene here?  What's stopping you?

 
And then esteemed Arbitrator Nicolau wrote this in the Nicolau Award:
 
“In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”
 
George Nicolau, Mediator

AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007
 
nycbd;
We haven't the need to hear from esteemed Arbitrator Nicolau because he RULED in a MEDIATION/ARBITRATION process that you/your CBA AGREED TO.  When an arbitration is COMPLETE, you get a list and the list is delivered and accepted by the company.  Period.
 
Here's what the NMB has to say about COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGENTS:
 
The National Mediation Board on the subject of contract continuity:
 

"When there is an agreement in effect between a carrier and its employees signed by one set of representatives and employees choose new representatives who are certified by the Board, the Board has taken the position that a change in representation does NOT ALTER OR CANCEL ANY EXISTING AGREEMENT made on behalf of the employees by the previous representatives.  The only effect of a certification by the Board is that the employees have chosen other agents to represent them in dealing with the management under the existing agreement”

 

[cactusboy53]

In the Matter of the Seniority Integration Involving
the Pilots of NEW AMERICAN AIRLINES- July 05, 2015
 
"..Whether or not a Merger Committee is required to advocate in favor of adoption of the Nicolau Award, we are not only authorized but obligated, as a result of the provisions of McCaskill-Bond and the language of the Protocol Agreement, to consider and give appropriate weight to all relevant facts and history when determining both an appropriate methodology and when determining whether the resulting integrated seniority list is fair and equitable."
 
It seems to me that this determination of the BOA (when the USAPA Merger committee "excused" themselves from the SLI process - what a surprise), leaves the door wide open for ANY seniority list determination, ESPECIALLY since the newly formed East Pilot Seniority Committee was granted, formed and allowed to argue something other than the Nicolau Seniority List.
 
I'm just trying to help you boys wrap your head around what may be to come, so that you can steel yourself for ANY eventuality. 

 

[luvthe9]

[
 
I'm just trying to help you boys wrap your head around what may be to come, so that you can steel yourself for ANY eventuality. 

Don't need your help flounder, you just keep doing circles in the fishbowl you created for your pilots.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
And then esteemed Arbitrator Nicolau wrote this in the Nicolau Award:
 
“In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”
 
George Nicolau, Mediator

AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007
 
nycbd;
We haven't the need to hear from esteemed Arbitrator Nicolau because he RULED in a MEDIATION/ARBITRATION process that you/your CBA AGREED TO.  When an arbitration is COMPLETE, you get a list and the list is delivered and accepted by the company.  Period.
 
Here's what the NMB has to say about COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGENTS:
 
The National Mediation Board on the subject of contract continuity:
 

"When there is an agreement in effect between a carrier and its employees signed by one set of representatives and employees choose new representatives who are certified by the Board, the Board has taken the position that a change in representation does NOT ALTER OR CANCEL ANY EXISTING AGREEMENT made on behalf of the employees by the previous representatives.  The only effect of a certification by the Board is that the employees have chosen other agents to represent them in dealing with the management under the existing agreement”


 

 
Hey Maroon...afraid to answer my question, huh?  I suspected you would be.  Let me rephrase....
 
You posted Nicolau's quote that the Board he chairs maintains jurisdiction in the matter of the award of May, 2007.
 
You west idiots have had almost nine years now to appeal to Nicolau since his "award" is still not in effect.  Why have you not taken this step?  
 
We know the answer, and you are afraid to admit it.  Nicolau will never be able to help you dumbs**ts because the criteria to implement the "award" have never been completed.  You can't have a dispute over something that has never really existed in practice.
 
So...now come up with more distractive b***s**t that is not in any way germane.  That's all you have been doing for nine years.  Why stop now?  It's been just SO DAMN effective for you, no?

 

[cactusboy53]

 
Hey Maroon...afraid to answer my question, huh?  I suspected you would be.  Let me rephrase....
 
You posted Nicolau's quote that the Board he chairs maintains jurisdiction in the matter of the award of May, 2007.
 
You west idiots have had almost nine years now to appeal to Nicolau since his "award" is still not in effect.  Why have you not taken this step?  
 
We know the answer, and you are afraid to admit it.  Nicolau will never be able to help you dumbs**ts because the criteria to implement the "award" have never been completed.  You can't have a dispute over something that has never really existed in practice.
 
So...now come up with more distractive b***s**t that is not in any way germane.  That's all you have been doing for nine years.  Why stop now?  It's been just SO DAMN effective for you, no?

 
Hey nycbd!  You CLEARY....oops CLEARLY don't understand the dynamics & nuances of the new little dance that you've led us down.
 
What exactly about the LAW, COMMON SENSE, ETHICS & COURT DICTA is so ELUSIVE to you that you consider those passages "distractive"  (my computer doesn't even recognize that as a real word).
 
Let me help you keep it simple:

• Your CBA tried unsuccessfully to negotiate our new seniority.
• Your CBA AGREED to ABIDE by a mediation & arbitration process.
• That esteemed arbitrator delivered a new seniority list that MET the confines of the agreement, AND there was NO MALFEASANCE or WRONG-DOING found.  That list was ACCEPTED by the company and is the ONLY joint seniority LUS list recognized by the company.
• Your pilot group, against the advice of SEVERAL law firms, established a NEW CBA EXPRESSLY for the purpose of evading the product of a mutually agreed upon process.  The RLA says that ANY new CBA is BOUND by ALL PRIOR AGREEMENTS.
• Ultimately, your CBA was found GUILTY of DFR for the reasons described above, AND your officers are being sued for illegally expending funds that they were ORDERED to NOT DO.
• The next SLI panel has generously allowed the East Pilot Seniority Committee to argue what the 9th SPECIFICALLY banned USAPA from doing.

If you don't understand the very real possibility that the Nicolau Seniority List may well be the starting point for the LUS pilots, then sir you are most definitely the "maroon".
 
And then the 9th said this:
 
[SIZE=12pt]The Ninth Circuit’s holding, that the denial of the Nicolau Award in Paragraph 10.h. of the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]MOU breached USAPA’s duty of fair representation, is effectively the tie-breaker on this question.  With the Ninth Circuit’s affirmation of the West Pilots’ reasonable expectation of the Nicolau Award, the AASPIC acknowledges it as the starting point for ranking the East and West Pilots on the ISL. As part of the ISL, the US Airways Pilots (East and West) should be ordered based on the Nicola Award……the job allocations as between the West and East Pilots must be rationalized according to the Nicolau Award as those pilots compete for jobs with each other for the first time, so that West Pilots achieve their expectations vis a vis the East Pilots.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]AAPSIC Pre-Hearing Statement               [/SIZE]