2015 Pilot Discussion.
- Thread starter Eagle
- Start date
- Status
e from a LAS-based USAPA member. Compare the message below to all the trash talk we’ve read from other West Reps. I’m surprised USAPA ever let them go out. ALPA wouldn’t have.
Here’s a guy who wants to move forward. It almost makes me want to join the union now. If we get a similar tone in PHX, I might join.
We know Eric is involved in defending the Nicolau award. What West pilot isn’t? Notice no mention of Nic, Addington, DOH in his update. Obviously he’s going to let the courts make the decision and not carry on the useless and endless attacks on the East that just divides us more. This update just shows he’s willing to work as a group member. Don’t like Eric’s tone? Then do the normal self-defeating west thing and recall him.
Maybe now all the trash talk and insults launched by former AWA MEC officers John McIlvenna, Mitch Vasin and their old ALPA allies will be over. U-Turn’s been putting out the message of working together for over a year. We’ve got a lot of hate mail and enemies for doing it. But now, it looks like common sense is here. Some comments of Eric in bold.
Dave
Las Vegas Domicile Update
October 26, 2009
Marcio Lucchese, former LAS USAPA Chairman:
In case you missed it, Marcio Lucchese has returned to the line full-time, having been replaced by me, Eric Ferguson, as our first elected representative from LAS to the BPR. Elected is a bit of an oxymoron in this case, because no election was held. As the only candidate for the position this time around, an election was unnecessary, and I became the LAS Chairman when Marcio's temporary appointment expired on October 1st.
I would like to personally thank Marcio for his service to our pilot group in serving as the first representative to USAPA from the Las Vegas base. This was an unpopular move at first, and I commend him for boldly stepping forward at a trying and critical time in our airline's history. Good luck, Marcio, and thanks again.
October 20 and 21 BPR meeting:
Last week I had the opportunity to attend my first USAPA BPR meeting in person. Prior to the meeting on the 20th, I had participated in a couple of conference calls, but not a live, “face-to-face” meeting. I had the privilege of attending with PHX Chairman Brice LeCarre, as well as David Braid, who was acting as PHX Vice Chairman Sue Stokes's proxy. I thoroughly enjoyed working alongside these men, in addition to the other members of the BPR. I will also say that I was impressed with the hospitality and professionalism afforded to our contingent. Everyone was respectful and courteous and seemed genuinely interested in our input. It is undeniable that the PHX and LAS domiciles are beginning to influence the direction of the Union. That is not to say that we will get our way on every issue – that is an unrealistic expectation and not how representative democracies function. But, in reality, it is rare that any given issue comes down strictly to one's domicile affiliation. I look forward to the day when our western domiciles will be represented by additional seats at the table. We should never have been content to let others make all decisions on our behalf at the BPR, and I am pleased to report that those days have come to an end. We should exert as much influence as our size will allow, and I feel that influence will only continue to grow.
Your membership status:
I know several of you have recently (or maybe even not so recently) applied for USAPA membership, but have not been made aware of a change in your status. This is because membership is normally conferred upon applicants at a local domicile meeting. I have not yet scheduled a domicile meeting since taking over from Marcio on October 1st. This is something I will plan on doing during the month of November. In the meantime, per the USAPA constitution, membership may also be granted to member applicants at a BPR meeting. There is a BPR meeting scheduled for the first week of November, and we will vote on those of you awaiting approval at that time so as not to delay your admittance to the Union any further. Thanks for your patience in this matter.
Section 29 Enforcement:
You may have heard that USAPA is aggressively pursuing Section 29 enforcement against former AWA pilots. Well, this is true, and USAPA is doing the same with East Coast-based pilots as well. US Airways Pilots have had since April 18th, 2008, to make good on their obligations to pay the bargaining agent the funds to which it is legally entitled. The plain language of our CBAs requires all pilots subject to the bargaining agent (which really and truly means all pilots) to pay according to the policy. Of course, there are many more delinquent pilots (both as a percentage, and in actual numbers) based out West than out East, so it should not come as any surprise that the Dues Collection Committee spends most of its time making friends with our West Coast pilots.
I will admit that the enforcement of this policy has probably been a bit lax in the past, but those days are over, because the Union has rightfully run out of patience. This is just as you would if you personally had a long overdue debt that you were trying to collect. So, starting a few weeks ago and continuing into the foreseeable future, USAPA will be sending out numerous letters to our delinquent pilots. The exact procedures being used to enforce the written policy will not be disclosed. In other words, the policy is being enforced as written, but the method (such as how many letters are being sent out, or in what order) has not been made available to your representatives. The Union is under no obligation to offer this information, but please understand that it is diligently working to collect. Because of this, I cannot tell you ahead of time when your “number will be up,” so please do not call to ask. I just do not have that information in advance and have long preferred that we not play games with this anyway. Please save yourselves (and me) the anxiety and just pay up. So, to summarize what this all means, let's just say that if you receive a letter notifying you that you have been selected for termination under the Section 29, “Union Security Clause,” then you will have the simple choice of either complying with the letter's request or losing your job.
That seems like a pretty simple choice to me. I personally do not have the patience for any more gamesmanship about the matter. The plain language of the Agreement gives you a simple choice: pay or be terminated. There is really nothing to argue about. Now, having said the above, I respectfully request that you do more than give USAPA your hard-earned money; give us your voice and your vote as well. Please consider becoming (and staying) a member in good standing.
Last week I was able to meet the chairman of the Dues Collection Committee, John Mahlman. I will say that it is obvious to me that this man has not taken this unpleasant position out of some sadistic motive to “shake down” our pilots, but rather that he does this out of a sincere desire to professionally uphold the policy in a manner that actually helps to build unity. I do suspect that he has to be a little masochistic, though, because I am sure he has been subject to the occasional and sometimes breathtakingly-impressive berating by those he has been tasked to contact (this is just a guess on my part). Perhaps it is therapeutic for him, but as they say, “someone has to do it.” I have heard that most of you who have been contacted by John are pleasantly surprised by his kind professionalism. I am just glad it’s not something I have to do all of the time.
Open Enrollment:
Here’s a guy who wants to move forward. It almost makes me want to join the union now. If we get a similar tone in PHX, I might join.
We know Eric is involved in defending the Nicolau award. What West pilot isn’t? Notice no mention of Nic, Addington, DOH in his update. Obviously he’s going to let the courts make the decision and not carry on the useless and endless attacks on the East that just divides us more. This update just shows he’s willing to work as a group member. Don’t like Eric’s tone? Then do the normal self-defeating west thing and recall him.
Maybe now all the trash talk and insults launched by former AWA MEC officers John McIlvenna, Mitch Vasin and their old ALPA allies will be over. U-Turn’s been putting out the message of working together for over a year. We’ve got a lot of hate mail and enemies for doing it. But now, it looks like common sense is here. Some comments of Eric in bold.
Dave
Las Vegas Domicile Update
October 26, 2009
Marcio Lucchese, former LAS USAPA Chairman:
In case you missed it, Marcio Lucchese has returned to the line full-time, having been replaced by me, Eric Ferguson, as our first elected representative from LAS to the BPR. Elected is a bit of an oxymoron in this case, because no election was held. As the only candidate for the position this time around, an election was unnecessary, and I became the LAS Chairman when Marcio's temporary appointment expired on October 1st.
I would like to personally thank Marcio for his service to our pilot group in serving as the first representative to USAPA from the Las Vegas base. This was an unpopular move at first, and I commend him for boldly stepping forward at a trying and critical time in our airline's history. Good luck, Marcio, and thanks again.
October 20 and 21 BPR meeting:
Last week I had the opportunity to attend my first USAPA BPR meeting in person. Prior to the meeting on the 20th, I had participated in a couple of conference calls, but not a live, “face-to-face” meeting. I had the privilege of attending with PHX Chairman Brice LeCarre, as well as David Braid, who was acting as PHX Vice Chairman Sue Stokes's proxy. I thoroughly enjoyed working alongside these men, in addition to the other members of the BPR. I will also say that I was impressed with the hospitality and professionalism afforded to our contingent. Everyone was respectful and courteous and seemed genuinely interested in our input. It is undeniable that the PHX and LAS domiciles are beginning to influence the direction of the Union. That is not to say that we will get our way on every issue – that is an unrealistic expectation and not how representative democracies function. But, in reality, it is rare that any given issue comes down strictly to one's domicile affiliation. I look forward to the day when our western domiciles will be represented by additional seats at the table. We should never have been content to let others make all decisions on our behalf at the BPR, and I am pleased to report that those days have come to an end. We should exert as much influence as our size will allow, and I feel that influence will only continue to grow.
Your membership status:
I know several of you have recently (or maybe even not so recently) applied for USAPA membership, but have not been made aware of a change in your status. This is because membership is normally conferred upon applicants at a local domicile meeting. I have not yet scheduled a domicile meeting since taking over from Marcio on October 1st. This is something I will plan on doing during the month of November. In the meantime, per the USAPA constitution, membership may also be granted to member applicants at a BPR meeting. There is a BPR meeting scheduled for the first week of November, and we will vote on those of you awaiting approval at that time so as not to delay your admittance to the Union any further. Thanks for your patience in this matter.
Section 29 Enforcement:
You may have heard that USAPA is aggressively pursuing Section 29 enforcement against former AWA pilots. Well, this is true, and USAPA is doing the same with East Coast-based pilots as well. US Airways Pilots have had since April 18th, 2008, to make good on their obligations to pay the bargaining agent the funds to which it is legally entitled. The plain language of our CBAs requires all pilots subject to the bargaining agent (which really and truly means all pilots) to pay according to the policy. Of course, there are many more delinquent pilots (both as a percentage, and in actual numbers) based out West than out East, so it should not come as any surprise that the Dues Collection Committee spends most of its time making friends with our West Coast pilots.
I will admit that the enforcement of this policy has probably been a bit lax in the past, but those days are over, because the Union has rightfully run out of patience. This is just as you would if you personally had a long overdue debt that you were trying to collect. So, starting a few weeks ago and continuing into the foreseeable future, USAPA will be sending out numerous letters to our delinquent pilots. The exact procedures being used to enforce the written policy will not be disclosed. In other words, the policy is being enforced as written, but the method (such as how many letters are being sent out, or in what order) has not been made available to your representatives. The Union is under no obligation to offer this information, but please understand that it is diligently working to collect. Because of this, I cannot tell you ahead of time when your “number will be up,” so please do not call to ask. I just do not have that information in advance and have long preferred that we not play games with this anyway. Please save yourselves (and me) the anxiety and just pay up. So, to summarize what this all means, let's just say that if you receive a letter notifying you that you have been selected for termination under the Section 29, “Union Security Clause,” then you will have the simple choice of either complying with the letter's request or losing your job.
That seems like a pretty simple choice to me. I personally do not have the patience for any more gamesmanship about the matter. The plain language of the Agreement gives you a simple choice: pay or be terminated. There is really nothing to argue about. Now, having said the above, I respectfully request that you do more than give USAPA your hard-earned money; give us your voice and your vote as well. Please consider becoming (and staying) a member in good standing.
Last week I was able to meet the chairman of the Dues Collection Committee, John Mahlman. I will say that it is obvious to me that this man has not taken this unpleasant position out of some sadistic motive to “shake down” our pilots, but rather that he does this out of a sincere desire to professionally uphold the policy in a manner that actually helps to build unity. I do suspect that he has to be a little masochistic, though, because I am sure he has been subject to the occasional and sometimes breathtakingly-impressive berating by those he has been tasked to contact (this is just a guess on my part). Perhaps it is therapeutic for him, but as they say, “someone has to do it.” I have heard that most of you who have been contacted by John are pleasantly surprised by his kind professionalism. I am just glad it’s not something I have to do all of the time.
Open Enrollment:
Expanded quote from Jeff Freund in Stephen Vs McIlvenna, filed 7/24/2007:
Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Posts: 61
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: Jetz and props
Ratings: ATP, MEI, FE B-727, B-737 type
Curr Position: Flying for the aquiring airline
Total Time: 11,000
Sully, welcome to Phoenix
Open letter to Doug Parker.
September 28, 2009
Mr. Douglas Parker
CEO & Chairman of the Board
US Airways, Inc.
111 W. Rio Salado Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281
VIA EMAIL
Dear Doug:
I'm writing to express my complete and utter disappointment with
today's announcement that Captain Sullenberger will be appointed to a
management position within the company. In fact, as a result of Capt.
Sullenberger's decision to use his new found fame as a weapon against
1800 former America West pilots in a recent federal court case over
pilot seniority, I find the company's announcement particularly
insulting. Not only does this decision now forever discredit the
company's purported "neutrality" in the pilot seniority issue, but it
also calls in to question the credibility of the entire safety
management team. As I hope you'll agree, it is in everybody's best
interests to keep flight safety an issue that is far removed from
politics.
I can respect that Capt. Sullenberger has his own personal opinions
regarding the seniority situation, however, I believe that his
decision to testify in court raises reasonable question as to his
ability to adequately perform his new duties without bias. Capt.
Sullenberger did not provide any relevant testimony in the case, and
was only called to testify by USAPA in the hopes that his celebrity
status would unfairly influence a jury. Instead of limiting the use
his celebrity status in support of productive goals such as promoting
aviation safety and the image of US Airways, he blatantly abused that
status by unnecessarily inserting himself on the losing side of an
issue that he played no prior role in. I cannot be reasonably assured
that he would not similarly misuse his position in management.
While I'm certain that this letter will fall on deaf ears, I can
assure you that this letter by no means an end to this issue, and that
you will be in need of much more than a well polished statement at a
crew news session to address it.
Sincerely,
/s/
Mitch Vasin
PHX 320 FO
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: Jetz and props
Ratings: ATP, MEI, FE B-727, B-737 type
Curr Position: Flying for the aquiring airline
Total Time: 11,000
Sully, welcome to Phoenix
Open letter to Doug Parker.
September 28, 2009
Mr. Douglas Parker
CEO & Chairman of the Board
US Airways, Inc.
111 W. Rio Salado Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281
VIA EMAIL
Dear Doug:
I'm writing to express my complete and utter disappointment with
today's announcement that Captain Sullenberger will be appointed to a
management position within the company. In fact, as a result of Capt.
Sullenberger's decision to use his new found fame as a weapon against
1800 former America West pilots in a recent federal court case over
pilot seniority, I find the company's announcement particularly
insulting. Not only does this decision now forever discredit the
company's purported "neutrality" in the pilot seniority issue, but it
also calls in to question the credibility of the entire safety
management team. As I hope you'll agree, it is in everybody's best
interests to keep flight safety an issue that is far removed from
politics.
I can respect that Capt. Sullenberger has his own personal opinions
regarding the seniority situation, however, I believe that his
decision to testify in court raises reasonable question as to his
ability to adequately perform his new duties without bias. Capt.
Sullenberger did not provide any relevant testimony in the case, and
was only called to testify by USAPA in the hopes that his celebrity
status would unfairly influence a jury. Instead of limiting the use
his celebrity status in support of productive goals such as promoting
aviation safety and the image of US Airways, he blatantly abused that
status by unnecessarily inserting himself on the losing side of an
issue that he played no prior role in. I cannot be reasonably assured
that he would not similarly misuse his position in management.
While I'm certain that this letter will fall on deaf ears, I can
assure you that this letter by no means an end to this issue, and that
you will be in need of much more than a well polished statement at a
crew news session to address it.
Sincerely,
/s/
Mitch Vasin
PHX 320 FO
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
Claxon said:
"Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didnt CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didnt believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you dont take their advice?"
Way to go CJ!
"We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave ODell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldnt get to first base with it."
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
APA PHX Domicile Update: December 20, 2015
This letter comes under the heading: "We told you this would happen and you have no one to blame but yourselves."
The PHX Reps are complaining that there has been no movement and in fact, the opposite is true. They were warned many times by many people that by refusing to negotiate with the East over Nicolau and insisting it would be Nicolau or nothing, they got nothing. Five attempts to negotiate with them over the years resulted in telling us in essence, "Go to hell." Now they complain that they have been left behind.
Parker and Kirby told them that without the East merger, they would have implemented the plan "Zanzibar," within 2 weeks entered bankruptcy, furloughed 20% of the pilots and most likely liquidation shortly after that since they had no money and no prospects of getting financing. So by merging, they now fly 24% of former East flights. They should be grateful for the opportunity of merging with an airline that was profitable.
LOOK QUICK! A Rare and Illusive PHX “Vacancy” Bid Comes and Goes!
PHOENIX FISHBOWL FLYER
DECEMBER 2014
Awhile back we published an update in which we referred to our Phoenix base as a “fishbowl.” Since then, a few pilots from other bases who find their current situation more satisfying than what we have faced over the last decade thought the reference was hysterical, and began calling our PHX updates “Fishbowl Fliers.” We are dismayed that our circumstances would give them so much pleasure.
AOL, wrecking careers of west pilots.
This letter comes under the heading: "We told you this would happen and you have no one to blame but yourselves."
The PHX Reps are complaining that there has been no movement and in fact, the opposite is true. They were warned many times by many people that by refusing to negotiate with the East over Nicolau and insisting it would be Nicolau or nothing, they got nothing. Five attempts to negotiate with them over the years resulted in telling us in essence, "Go to hell." Now they complain that they have been left behind.
Parker and Kirby told them that without the East merger, they would have implemented the plan "Zanzibar," within 2 weeks entered bankruptcy, furloughed 20% of the pilots and most likely liquidation shortly after that since they had no money and no prospects of getting financing. So by merging, they now fly 24% of former East flights. They should be grateful for the opportunity of merging with an airline that was profitable.
LOOK QUICK! A Rare and Illusive PHX “Vacancy” Bid Comes and Goes!
PHOENIX FISHBOWL FLYER
DECEMBER 2014
Awhile back we published an update in which we referred to our Phoenix base as a “fishbowl.” Since then, a few pilots from other bases who find their current situation more satisfying than what we have faced over the last decade thought the reference was hysterical, and began calling our PHX updates “Fishbowl Fliers.” We are dismayed that our circumstances would give them so much pleasure.
AOL, wrecking careers of west pilots.
. Truly what your boy Vasin thinks to employ the APA to get ALPA representation back, Disgusting!Claxon said:
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Oy! We all know the history. We've all heard the arguments. We've all been unmoved. We all know that 99% of the crap now being posted on this thread is irrelevant to the current situation.
Why continue to waste the energy and bandwidth? Wait for the SLI results and move on. There will be no choice. No lawsuit will slow it down this time because the courts will say: "McCaskill-Bond. Dismissed."
Good luck to all.
Why continue to waste the energy and bandwidth? Wait for the SLI results and move on. There will be no choice. No lawsuit will slow it down this time because the courts will say: "McCaskill-Bond. Dismissed."
Good luck to all.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Claxon said:
20 days!
Then, I think, they'll turn my NYC Bus into an artificial reef, because it won't be seen here anymore.
NYC: thank you for your unwavering support of the junior pilots of this airline over the years. I too have lost out on a lot of money over the years but to me the situation warranted it in my opinion. I would rather pay the cost than to let entitled western brats usurp years of longevity and seniority. You are lucky you will never have to share the cockpit with their whiney asses.nycbusdriver said:
Godspeed and good luck in your future years.
BTW where are you flying on your last trip and are you going to be able to take family along?
nycbusdriver
Veteran
FL430 said:
Thanks for the kind words.
Actually, I have shared the cockpit with a westie! At least some of them that ended up on furlough (after AOL and their leadership sold them short) took positions on the east list at new hire seniority. It only too this pilot a few years to get a F/O slot on the A330, and there he was. I didn't even realize it until the trip westward! He didn't broadcast the fact that he was from Americas Worst Airline (AWA), but in conversion he didn't hide it, either.
The company has reserved a positive space seat for my spouse, but that's all. Some crew member friends are jockeying to get on the crew, and I am flattered by the fact they want to share my last flight.
Jurik, Kothny, McIlvenna,Thomas and Vasin attempting to vindicate Eric Fergusons actions to deny a LAA leukemia survivor from returning. Everts also joining the party. Nice try, telling people hostage taking is justified. Ferguson should be expelled.
Absolutely disgusting.
All on C&R
Absolutely disgusting.
All on C&R
- Status
Similar threads
