2015 Pilot Discussion.

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cactusboy53 said:
Now how EXACTLY would you be able to make a statement highlighted above?  PLEASE tell me that you are not involved in that program.  That would be like placing the hefty kid in charge of the cake.
 
You must be an absolute delight to work with.  I sure hope you can keep that sense of humor.  I look forward to being on your flight deck, or you on mine.  Of course I would not expect you to admit your identity.  You are much too comfortable as a key-board commando.

Ok I won't tell you, but I'm sure you know I'm a caring guy!



Seek help Dorothy........ You have all the classic signs.
 
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MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
The West Committee understands that, despite the Ninth Circuits decision regarding USAPAs conduct in negotiating the MOU, there is no legal argument to be made that the Nicolau Award is now binding in this SLI proceeding as a consequence of the terms of the America West-US Airways Transition Agreement CB 53 let us try "these words for tomorrow "despite " and "understands " ! Pg 53 west post hearing brief!
The boy is in denial, beautiful day at the AC beach, Jimmy playing tonight on the beach!

The only fishbowl is the ocean



Poor flounder, like I said 8 years ago you will be where you belong, no jumping in line, geez all that wasted money
 
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dariencc said:
The break room at the Twinkie factory clears out whenever The World's Greatest Living Expert shows up for his coffee refill.  They can't take anymore of the gasbag's speeches about how the Nicolau award is a legal certainty.  He bases this opinion on his extensive experience as a stock clerk, lav dumper, commercial baking expert and webboard know it all.
 
He thought he knew more about the RLA and contract law than Lee Seham and Bill Wilder.  He's like the crazy uncle who tells everyone to ignore the doctors, the cure for angina is red peppers washed down with a couple of boilermakers.
That's what spending 10k a year on Tony Robbins' seminars does for him.
 
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EyeInTheSky said:
That's what spending 10k a year on Tony Robbins' seminars does for him.
He is the one that can't get over his anger about pilots cleaning planes when his union went on strike. So a pilot walks to the back and snags a USA TODAY and in his mind that is cleaning a plane! GMAFB!
 
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FL430 said:
He is the one that can't get over his anger about pilots cleaning planes when his union went on strike. So a pilot walks to the back and snags a USA TODAY and in his mind that is cleaning a plane! GMAFB!
 
Kinda' speaks volumes about what his concept of ever actually "cleaning" a plane amounted to.
 
Bean said:
.......

Is there anyway I can still take the wager of virtual dogfighting after the list comes out?
 
Of course, but why wait for the list? Be the very first "spartan" to proudly step up. Lord knows we could all use some good laughs around here.
 
Bean: "Can I use a remote controlled airplane or do I have to actually be in the cockpit?" No huge surprise you would ask about some personally removed, remote "internet-tough-guy" alternative. Sorry kid, but yes, you would "have to actually be in the cockpit", regardless of the personal distress that concept invokes in even your postings.
 
"You'se" may now return to happily drooling on your "Liberty" tie and stroking your "keyboard"....
 
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Simmons is having guilt issues with all the legal blunders and blown calls he made.
He completely missed the boat on the USAPA vote. Then he never got it that USAPA was a new bargaining agent, unbeholden to the Nic.

Ferguson and Koontz, Vasin and Doyal took the legal knowledge to dangerous regions, aided by an incompetent lawyer named Marty.
This has all been a series of disasters resulting in a 10 year sentence served in the FISHBOWL.
Simmons is in completely over his head.
The Legacy AA pilots are beginning to realize what an absolute free for all AWA HR must have been. All those wack jobs that slid in the door are all over C&R. Including the former chief pilot who gave the social security numbers of east pilots to Leonidas.
Kothny and Burkett are completely bonkers.
 
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Attention: AWAPPA SHOPPERS! (Part II)

A couple of U-Turns ago, we sent one out called “Don’t Worry, Be Happy!” We still believe it. And we still believe that as long as ALPA is off the property, they can’t pull a “fair and equitable” on us and force us to share UAL’s Downsizing pain. Yes, you ARE protected by the TA. And nothing AWAPPA says is going to change that.

But our former MEC leadership is still in total denial. They act like ALPA is still the CBA. Former LAS FO Rep Ray Burkett is living in a dream world. This is the “Ray Solution:”

From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Scott Lillard" <[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>; "CJ Szmal" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: U-Turn: ATTN: AWAPPA Shoppers!

Well this was what I has hoping to avoid!! The key here people is to set
up with UAL and get a prenup. Parker and team are not about to let u sap
ass block their deal with UAL. We need to focus on reaching out to as many
people in the UAL MEC as we ALL CAN. FENCE the prick in the east for 30yrs

Ray Burkett
C82 First officer Rep
Vice Chairman

Earth to Ray! Set up a “prenup” with UAL? Ray, ALPA’s not our CBA any more. And YOU aren’t the C82 FO Rep anymore. C82 doesn’t exist anymore. In fact, the entire LAS base isn’t going to last through the fall!

Sorry, Ray, but the UAL MEC isn’t going to give you or AWAPPA the time of day. They are represented by ALPA and ALPA is hanging it out if they negotiate with any group that isn’t the CBA. If they do and get caught at it, they could end up with a DFR that will make their $50+ million Duke-Spellacy settlement in the 1990s look like a parking ticket fine. The UAL MEC Merger Attorney is AWAPPA’s Jeff Freund. Can you say conflict of interest? How can he represent us and the UAL pilots at the same time? How can he give us any legal advice on defending the NIC while he’s representing UAL’s MEC? If a merger announcement is made, who do you think he will represent?

Enough of Ray’s fantasy union. At the bottom of this U-Turn is a summary of the first round of planned reductions over at UAL. The source is their internal employee “newsline.” We believe that the information is authentic. Note that the “first set of changes… will enable us to remove 30 of our B737 aircraft, the least efficient of our fleet.” At 6.5 crews (13 pilots) per aircraft, that’s a hit of 390 pilots on the streets. Proportionally, that would mean a furlough of about 148 LCC pilots if we were “fairly and equitably” sharing the pain.

The UAL internal forecast is just a blip on the radar screen when compared to the “What if” comments by Chicago Tribune reporter Julie Johnsson, written yesterday. According to her article (paraphrased, because of copy write laws – the link is: <http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun-united-tilton-mergermay11,0,1669926.story>http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun-united-tilton-mergermay11,0,1669926.story), the New “U” could park the entire 737-300 fleet (111 aircraft) of both carriers, producing over a billion dollars synergies.

At 13 pilots per plane, that’s an 11% reduction or 1443-pilot furlough from the total of approximately 13,000 active pilots. Proportionally, under ALPA’s “fair and equitable pain sharing,” the West hit could be about 192 furloughs.

So, does anyone really want a piece of that “fair and equitable” ALPA-pie or a Ray Burkett “prenup?” As much as you might hate USAPA, Ray, they do control both contracts. More importantly, they control the TA and its floor of 120 West planes and 202 East planes.

The U-Turn


Airline Capacity Reductions --

Fall Schedule Reflects More Strategic, Profitable Flying Choices; Capacity Reductions Posted May 9, 2008

Fall schedule changes reflecting our previously announced capacity reductions in narrowbody flying are being finalized. The reductions are part of our five-point plan announced April 22 to combat fuel costs in an extremely challenging environment and are intended to maximize profitable flying. The first set of changes, which are effective September 2, represents approximately 75 percent of our planned capacity reductions. When complete, these reductions will enable us to remove 30 of our B737 aircraft, the least efficient of our fleet.

"With the reality of record-high fuel prices and a softening U.S. economy, we need to resize our business as reductions are occurring across the industry to address these unprecedented challenges," says John Tague, chief operating officer. "This will enable us to leverage our capacity discipline to continue to lead the industry in passing on commodity costs like fuel surcharges, developing new revenue streams like our second checked bag policy, and reducing non-fuel costs and planned capital expenditures."

The focus on the fall schedule resulted in decreased frequency in several markets, but increases in others where we see profitable demand and less competitive pressure. Those markets that will see added flying include several Canadian cities from our DEN and ORD hubs.

In total, capacity reductions reflected in the schedule effective Saturday, May 10, vary from hub to hub, based on market conditions:

Hub Departures Percent of Consolidated
UA/UAX Departures
San Francisco 12/5
Los Angeles 12/5
Denver 19/4
Washington Dulles 9/3
Chicago 0/0

These changes represent 75 percent of our commitment to reduce domestic mainline capacity by 30 aircraft. The remaining 25 percent will announced later this month as we continue to closely analyze our schedule.

We are also focusing on more profitable international flying with widebody aircraft, such as our announcement earlier this week to launch service to Moscow and Dubai from our Washington Dulles hub (see the May 9 NewsReal). The aircraft for these two new destinations will be available as a result of our decision to delay our San Francisco-Guangzhou service, as well as our seasonal schedule changes.
 
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"According to message from the head of America Wests master executive council, John McIlvenna, ALPA held off because it is concerned that the US Airways pilots will seek to decertify from ALPA. Capt. McIlvenna said in an update to members:

While all of us know that decertification will do little to overturn the Nicolau Award, it is a threat that ALPA President Captain John Prater and the Executive Council are taking very seriously, as they believe it will cause much turmoil and leave the combined group embroiled in years of zero contract improvements and political upheaval.

Our belief following the original delay of the Executive Council decision is that ALPA should have spent the past month educating the US Airways pilots about the likely realities of decertification not having an effect on the Nicolau Award in a timely manner.

Instead, the past month was spent encouraging the America West MEC to discuss career progression schemes to alleviate pressure from the AAA [the old US Airways, from Allegheny Airlines, one of its original parts] pilots, and additionally permitting the US Airways MEC to propagate more false promises and rhetoric to their pilot group thus continuing to damage the unity we had carefully built in our strategic Coast-to-Coast campaign."
Terry Maxon

You blew it Johnny Mac, and Prater. The decertification of ALPA blew the Nicolau Award and McIlvenna out of the water........
 
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Claxon said:
Attention: AWAPPA SHOPPERS! (Part II)
........

Well this was what I has hoping to avoid!! The key here people is to set
up with UAL and get a prenup. Parker and team are not about to let u sap
ass block their deal with UAL. We need to focus on reaching out to as many
people in the UAL MEC as we ALL CAN. FENCE the prick in the east for 30yrs

Ray Burkett
C82 First officer Rep
Vice Chairman

Earth to Ray! Set up a “prenup” with UAL? Ray, ALPA’s not our CBA any more. And YOU aren’t the C82 FO Rep anymore. C82 doesn’t exist anymore. In fact, the entire LAS base isn’t going to last through the fall!

Sorry, Ray, but the UAL MEC isn’t going to give you or AWAPPA the time of day.
 
Most amusing. "FENCE the prick in the east for 30yrs"...? One must wonder how truly sweet such noble sentiment has tasted to them during the past decade out in the "fishbowl" of PHX?
 
Claxon said:
Simmons is having guilt issues with all the legal blunders and blown calls he made.
He completely missed the boat on the USAPA vote. Then he never got it that USAPA was a new bargaining agent, unbeholden to the Nic.

Ferguson and Koontz, Vasin and Doyal took the legal knowledge to dangerous regions, aided by an incompetent lawyer named Marty.
This has all been a series of disasters resulting in a 10 year sentence served in the FISHBOWL.
Simmons is in completely over his head.
The Legacy AA pilots are beginning to realize what an absolute free for all AWA HR must have been. All those wack jobs that slid in the door are all over C&R. Including the former chief pilot who gave the social security numbers of east pilots to Leonidas.
Kothny and Burkett are completely bonkers.
 
Sure.  If you say it's so...then it must be true (not really).  Would you care for some truth?  Here you go:
 
[SIZE=12pt][[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]sub-note 40: Not only does the Wye River meeting confirm that the East pilots understood the force of the Nicolau Award, it confirms that they were willing to live under it.  By the terms of their proposal, the list would be operative immediately upon execution of a JCBA but with restrictions for seven additional years.  (The East pilots’ Wye River proposal contemplated that a JCBA[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]would be ratified by June 2008, which was a reasonable assumption given the state of negotiations, including the Kirby proposal.  See West R. Ex. C (East Wye River Proposal) 22.)  Had the East’s Wye River Proposal been in effect, the Nicolau list would have been the list to be used in this proceeding without question and the carryover restrictions of the East pilots’ Wye River Proposal would have dropped within months of the effective date of the Award in this case…][/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Court testimony and dicta vs. your sad little diatribe, aged videos, and quotes from U-turd.  I hope you won't mind if I hang my hat on the former.  Hang on Claxy...it's gonna be interesting.  [/SIZE]
 
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[SIZE=12pt]....Nonetheless, as an equitable matter—and[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]this proceeding is at heart an equitable one—the East Committee is wrong to assert that using the Nicolau Award as the starting point for the integration would deny the East pilots their “true” seniority equities.  What the foregoing demonstrates is that for the past nine years, the East pilots did not exercise “true seniority equities” that they owned outright, but rather that they exercised seniority rights in an East-only list that always remained—up until USAPA’s final unlawful act in negotiating the MOU—subject to divestment upon the achievement of a JCBA.  In other words, after Arbitrator Nicolau settled the equities between East and West pilots arising out of the US Airways-America West merger through a contractually binding and final arbitral process, the East pilots no longer had “true seniority equities” in the operation of an East-only seniority list that were independent from the Transition Agreement and the Nicolau Award; rather, the East pilots were exercising seniority by virtue of an unlawful course of conduct by USAPA on their behalf that has robbed West pilots of their rightful career expectations established in 2007 through the processes established through the Transition Agreement, ALPA Merger Policy, and the ISL contained in the Nicolau Award.[/SIZE]
 
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cactusboy53 said:
....[SIZE=12pt]I hope you won't mind if I hang my hat on the former.  Hang on Claxy...it's gonna be interesting.  [/SIZE]
 
Couldn't care less about your hat, and per "[SIZE=12pt]it's gonna be interesting.", whatever happened to "epic"? ;)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Feel free to cheer yourself via mindless postings of long-since-irrelevant legal drivel.  Failing that, if further striving for sufficient comic effect;  just toss in one of your childishly nonsensical previous brayings of how "This is Sparta!"[/SIZE]
 
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cactusboy53 said:
[SIZE=12pt].....[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]has robbed West pilots of their rightful career expectations ....[/SIZE]
 
"Rightful"...umm...."expectations" are the proper domain of little children at Christmas, at the very best. The purely Fantasyland "army of leonidas" has only surprised me by not suing Santa Claus for undelivered, but no less fully formed "expections" in early youth. Here's a gentle hint kid; after at most the age of 8-10 years, it's a sensible idea to rid one's self of excessive "expectations" concerning the real world and even life it's self.
 
Seriously; how many "trophies" just for "participating" have actually been handed out over the previous years in PHX?...Or is the desert peyote?...Or what?
 
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[SIZE=24pt]arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Also found in: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Dictionary[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Thesaurus[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Medical[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Financial[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Encyclopedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Wikipedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The submission of a dispute to an unbiased third person designated by the parties to the controversy, who agree in advance to comply with the award—a decision to be issued after a hearing at which both parties have an opportunity to be heard.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Arbitration is a well-established and widely used means to end disputes. It is one of several kinds of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Alternative Dispute Resolution[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], which provide parties to a controversy with a choice other than litigation. Unlike litigation, arbitration takes place out of court: the two sides select an impartial third party, known as an arbitrator; agree in advance to comply with the arbitrator's award; and then participate in a hearing at which both sides can present evidence and testimony. The arbitrator's decision is usually FINAL, and courts rarely reexamine it….[/SIZE]
 
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