514 No longer endorsing tentative agreement

[Bob Owens]

We gain nothing, but... we dont lose the farm. This T/A is far worse than what we are currently working under. Unless you are management or a international flunky.

If we Vote No we do make gains. We make the gain of finally, after 20 years, saying "NO" to concessions. Thats progress. This would be the first time many have ever seen a No Vote from Aircraft Maintenance. It will mean that we no longer accept that going into the ATD is the only path to having a good TWU union job anymore. We also gain the opportunity to make advances.

We will need to make changes. One of them must be that we have somebody who believes that our labor carries just as much value as a SWA, UPS or Fed Ex worker. I can't tell you how fustrationg it was sitting in there hearing about how we have to give up something if we wanted to get something, this came from the Union!!! 'Thats negotiations" they would say!! Well what did the company give up in 2003? Well thats what we should be willing to give up now-nothing, except our labor!

I said to the committee that what we are giving for what we are asking for is our labor, our labor has value, our labor is what we gave to get those things in the past and we are more productive than ever before. We shouldnt have to give up other stuff in addition to our labor to get fair compensation.


We need to have somebody from the International leading the committee who believes that our labor has value.

 

[High Speed Steel]

If we Vote No we do make gains. We make the gain of finally, after 20 years, saying "NO" to concessions. Thats progress. This would be the first time many have ever seen a No Vote from Aircraft Maintenance. It will mean that we no longer accept that going into the ATD is the only path to having a good TWU union job anymore. We also gain the opportunity to make advances.

We will need to make changes. One of them must be that we have somebody who believes that our labor carries just as much value as a SWA, UPS or Fed Ex worker. I can't tell you how fustrationg it was sitting in there hearing about how we have to give up something if we wanted to get something, this came from the Union!!! 'Thats negotiations" they would say!! Well what did the company give up in 2003? Well thats what we should be willing to give up now-nothing, except our labor!

I said to the committee that what we are giving for what we are asking for is our labor, our labor has value, our labor is what we gave to get those things in the past and we are more productive than ever before. We shouldnt have to give up other stuff in addition to our labor to get fair compensation.


We need to have somebody from the International leading the committee who believes that our labor has value.

Bob, I said no in 1995. This time we're screwed! Saying "No" only to make you feel better will not fix anything! We are in mediation, what part of that don't you understand?

 

[JimJimmyJim]

Bob, I said no in 1995. This time we're screwed! Saying "No" only to make you feel better will not fix anything! We are in mediation, what part of that don't you understand?

Don, saying YES to make you feel better, won't matter either. What part of that do you not understand?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I said no in 1995. This time we're screwed! Saying "No" only to make you feel better will not fix anything! We are in mediation, what part of that don't you understand?

Why are we screwed? Could it be because AA is bringing in Billions more in Revenue with thousands of employees less? Could it be that even though we do more in house the amount of revenue we bring in per person is up by over $100,000 per worker?

Dont bother with the profits/losses BS, we cant stop the company from spending it faster than it comes in, as our pay goes down everybody else just takes more and more, inflation impacts us as well you know. If we should accept less based upon losses then all the employees of the TWU should be taking cuts because the TWU's net worth has been declinig rapidly over the last few years, in seven years at this rate they will be bankrupt, a real bankrupt, but they are still getting their raises.

So we are in Mediation, the first time since 1969, big deal, the Pilots have been there, the FAs have been there and their standing in the industry is near the top, and they have their Caps on their medical as well.

Saying YES wont fix anything, it will only make things worse.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Don, saying YES to make you feel better, won't matter either. What part of that do you not understand?

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

 

[Bob Owens]

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

Thats just it, "intends". Nothing is clearly defined and everything is open to interpretation and in Arbitration the burden of proof is on the union.

Here's how I see it going down if this passes.

CAL/UAL settle on a new agreement based upon the CAL contract. Because we sold out so low they will top out in 2012 at around $40 per hour.

Delta, (who just gave their guys a 10% snap back without any further concessions) will match CAL/UAL to keep the Unions off the property.

Jet Blue will do the same.

In the meantime AA will have adjusted the schedules so Night shift across the system starts at 19:59 so they dont have to pay anyone the MRT. Although on Paper we will be at $37.10 in reality the overwhelming majority, if not all, will be at or well below $35.60. Within a year Value Jet will be aheed of us again. We will be right back at number 6 even though on paper it will say we are number 4 or 5. Our Base guys never leave number 6 when everything is factored in.

The Union will bring up the early wage opener clause like the Dispatchers brought up the 2006 Early Opener clause.

The company will agree to "negotiate", like the Agreement says. And two years later we still will be negotiating or they will demand a contract extension in return for an adjustment that will still leave us at around $1.50 less than number two, still at number 6 and the union will tell the members that the company screwed "us" and "We will get em next time". By the next time Don will probably be retired, living off gifts from AA in thanks for pushing this POS through.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

Well for me once the Eagle ASM reaches it's new peak I'll probably be commuting if I have a job at all. Of course any dreams of early retirement are pretty much shot. Just to name 2 issues I have with it. You'll still have your international job so you have no worries.

 

[comatose]

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

What it intends to provide-WTF. Sound like our rock solid TA language. Knowledge of where it came from - The company written TA...yes I know where it came from. Where we are headed if rejected.....(what we have now) which is better than anything this TA has to offer(takeaway).

 

[JimJimmyJim]

Don, how do you call this negotiations. AA hands you a offer and you go to the negotiation committee and say take this to the members. They can't counter the offer? The company did move somewhat in the right direction. That's why it's called NEGOTIATIONS. Our committee should have been given the opportunity to counter AA's offer.

 

[toroshark]

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

Exactly where is it headed? You sound like a crappy parent with the response to his kids of "or else" or "because I said so". I think it will become clear that the majority completely understands what this latest round of concessions "intends to provide"! And it is by far a concessionary contract. They are taking away and going to take away far more than the pittance that they are offering. Retiree medical, eventually my pension with your brand of negotiating, classII's gone, and finally a whole boatload full of jobs at the bases and line. But I guess that doesnt matter to your ilk as long as you have such concrete base spin-off language that most likely ensures that TWU gets to collect dues from said venture. Whoever steered this T/A bus is corrupt and crooked point blank.

 

[Bob Owens]

What are we doing to the profession??????


SWA Ramp/Provisioning Agents vs AA SMA/OSM
_______SWA_______ AA
Step __7/01/2010 ___5/05/2010
New Hire $10.28 _____$9.87
6 Month $11.12 ______$9.87
Step 1 _$11.47 ______$10.69
Step 2 _$11.94 ______$11.78
Step 3 _$13.36 ______$12.84
Step 4 _$15.09______ $13.92
Step 5 _$16.36 ______$15.00
Step 6 _$17.61 ______$16.07
Step 7 _$18.49 ______$17.14
Step 8 _$19.34 ______$18.20
Step 9 _$20.22 ______$22.68
Step 10 $21.09
Step 11 $25.97

Under this TA a topped out FSC at SWA earns $3.95/hr more than a topped out OSM or Base rate SMA.

Lets say that twins graduate High School, one takes a job as a FSC at SWA and the other decides to go to A&P school, two years later he/she is hired by AA as an OSM.
By the time the twins are 30 years of age the twin who went to SWA will have earned $441667.20 while the twin who went to A&P school would have earned $286307.80, not only will he have earned $155000 less but that gap continues to grow.

What would Charles Taylor think? Have some pride, protect the profession; Vote NO.

 

[Rogallo]

Ridiculous, ain't it!!! :huh: :huh:

 

[texasreb]

What are we doing to the profession??????


SWA Ramp/Provisioning Agents vs AA SMA/OSM
_______SWA_______ AA
Step __7/01/2010 ___5/05/2010
New Hire $10.28 _____$9.87
6 Month $11.12 ______$9.87
Step 1 _$11.47 ______$10.69
Step 2 _$11.94 ______$11.78
Step 3 _$13.36 ______$12.84
Step 4 _$15.09______ $13.92
Step 5 _$16.36 ______$15.00
Step 6 _$17.61 ______$16.07
Step 7 _$18.49 ______$17.14
Step 8 _$19.34 ______$18.20
Step 9 _$20.22 ______$22.68
Step 10 $21.09
Step 11 $25.97

Under this TA a topped out FSC at SWA earns $3.95/hr more than a topped out OSM or Base rate SMA.

Lets say that twins graduate High School, one takes a job as a FSC at SWA and the other decides to go to A&P school, two years later he/she is hired by AA as an OSM.
By the time the twins are 30 years of age the twin who went to SWA will have earned $441667.20 while the twin who went to A&P school would have earned $286307.80, not only will he have earned $155000 less but that gap would continues to grow.

What would Charles Taylor think? Have some pride, protect the profession; Vote NO.

I wish I was a lucky as the twin. When I graduated from Spartan, I had to go work at a repair station, then UA at San Francisco because I had little experience. Finally American saw enough in me to hire me.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It's not a matter of Don saying yes or no to anything. It's a matter of reading and understanding what it intends to provide and having the knowledge of were it came from and were it is headed if rejected....

"where it is headed if rejected..."?

I can tell you where it is headed WHEN it is rejected.


It is headed to our craft and class at AA where we will stand on our feet and no longer on our knees.

It is headed to where the membership sees the injustice/insult this t/a brings to our craft and class at AA.

It is headed in the right direction for our craft and class at AA.

 

[odie01]

Here is a new site thats interesting

http://www.representationnow.com/id11.htm