AFA Labor Relations Thread 10/6---

[Sandy Eggo]

The recall was originally started by some of our more junior workforce who are fed up with the bad working conditions and pay for the reserves. Contrary to the popular belief amongst our reserves, most of the west f/a's, no matter how junior or senior, agree the reserves are treated badly and want that to change. I have heard some of the reserves say all they want right now is a raise. I have also heard them say they don't care about giving up our 5th week of vacation if it gets them a raise now. There are two problems with that concept. Number one, is that it isn't a raise....it's shuffling. The second problems with this idea is that you never, ever give up something good in a contract to get a "raise". Someday they will be eligible for that 5th vacation week. And with that vacation week comes the option of working through it for the extra money...something you won't have by giving it up for a raise right now.

This has been done before but one more time, look at the numbers to understand why the West reserves are tired of hearing about the sacred 5th week vacation.

6 year reserve flight attendant/ West
$22.96 x 70 hour guarantee monthly = $1607 gross monthly x 12 = $19,286 annually
vacation pay is 3.5 hours credit per day = $562.00 vacation pay
4 day picked up during vacation = $550.00 additional

6 year reserve flight attendant/ East
$31.74 x 73 hour guarantee monthly = $2317 gross montly x 12 = $27, 804 annually
vacation pay is 4.0 hours per day = $888.00 vacation pay
4 day picked up during vacation = $634.00 additional

Difference just using guarantee is $8518 annually and that doesn't even take into account the better per diem rate.

It is a raise, a nice raise. It would help alot of FAs on the West.

You are telling the West reserves that they should support a benefit that they are not even eligible for with their poverty. You are trying to convince them that working through a vacation week is worth more than making better money each and every month to pay for necessities and maybe be able to take a vacation like you obviously do. What kind of financial advice is that? Please put real numbers on paper to experience their present circumstances. Their awful wage vs. your very generous vacation time, not a hard choice.

The full 5th week only benefits those with 18 years and over and any blockholder worth their salt can schedule as many weeks off as they want. I would barter that 5th week away in a heartbeat if it meant $8-14,000 per year more financial sercurity for more flight attendants here. If the negotiators get it back, great. If not, it is good raise and a good trade and perhaps falls under that teamwork concept you speak of.

Unless you would like to hire a reserve to house-sit for you when you are on vacation? Only $8518 a week, what a bargain!

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Fact is fact, the blatant LIE and rumor about his personal life doesn't belong on here. Not to mention how hurtful this is to the other innocent person being dragged through the mud.

I am certainly not a fan of the "Dynamic Duo" (being very sarcastic) that is running your show out there in PHX, but I agree that their personal lives are just that. If you want to expose their actions as union officers on these boards have at it but what they do outside of the AFA office, outside of negotiations, outside of the crew room is really no ones business.

 

[hpflygirl]

Ok...so you have added in the difference in pay as well to come up with your higher yearly salary. Pay parity should have nothing to do with whether or not we keep the 5th week of vacation. I am all for pay parity. I am all for Sec. 6 negotiations to get that pay parity and to help push the company to finally realize we are serious about having a decent raise in our joint contract. But that is a totally different subject. Also, not everyone gets 3.5 hours per day for vacation. The longer you are here, not only do you get more vacation time but you get a higher amount of vacation pay. While not everyone will agree with me, I think every flight attendant should be paid minimum 4 hours per day for their vacation. It needs to cover at least what a 4 day trip would pay for that time. But again, this has nothing to do with giving up the 5th week of vacation. That is time off you have earned and are paid for, and again you can choose to work during that time which will double your pay for that time. We all deserve a raise.....both east and west deserve to be paid the same for the same work......but giving up a week's vacation to get it is not a raise. It is merely shuffling the numbers. You simply do not give up one to get the other. The company wins if you do that. It means it's a contract with no visible raise in it.

And for those west f/a's that think recalling Lisa and Jeff will solve your problems, think again. Lisa, Jeff and Mike Flores have worked very hard on our contract. Changing up the dynamics of this team now will do nothing but delay the contract even further. Bringing in a new MEC, getting them up to speed on what's going on in negotiations, what grievances are pending, who's job they are fighting for, etc. takes time. More time that we don't have a contract. And when you get a new west MEC that doesn't do what you personally think should be done, what are you going to do? Recall them too? I personally would like to have a contract before it's time for me to retire.

 

[Travelpro72]

They are not to be trusted. I don't want someone like that having a hand in my future contract. I'd rather start at ground zero than have those clowns in there. They are NOT the voice of the membership I'm sure. Someone said that a union is only as strong as it's members. Yeah, well your union is only as honest as the people you ELECT. Get them the HELL out of there. It won't take long to get others up to speed on negotiations as there is very little that is closed as far as sections go. 🙄

 

[hp_fa]

And for those west f/a's that think recalling Lisa and Jeff will solve your problems, think again. Lisa, Jeff and Mike Flores have worked very hard on our contract. Changing up the dynamics of this team now will do nothing but delay the contract even further. Bringing in a new MEC, getting them up to speed on what's going on in negotiations, what grievances are pending, who's job they are fighting for, etc. takes time.

Not if the prior officeholders are voted back into office. They will have a continuing knowledge of most of the issues and could be spun up quickly. (BTW, I am not advocating any candidates, just merely stating that the prior officers have a lot of institutional knowledge.)

 

[drrstrav]

My friend who is furloughed received an email that stated access was discontinued per MEC SEC

I just spoke to several West furloghed F/As, and they stated, yes, they are posting and reading on AFA66 forum. May be your friend , is not exactly, telling the truth. Furthermore, I just so 3 posting from furloughed F/as on the forum. Please, do not spread misinformation.

 

[hpflygirl]

From what we were told at the recall meeting, there will be a transitional period of 4-6 months while new officers can be elected. This will pretty much put our negotiations at a stand still. And it was brought up by the "old regime" at this very meeting that they are not in favor in Sec. 6 negotiations. So pushing for pay parity pretty much goes out the window with that one.

Too many of us remember attending meetings under the old regime to basically be told they didn't care what we as members wanted, they would vote however they felt appropriate. They didn't have a clue how to answer the reserve questions as they were not in tune with their needs....which is shown in the lop-sided pay section of our last contract. HpFa, maybe you were already gone when these things happened. I was there, I listened to what they had to say. I had voted for them in the prior election....and then I voted them out in the next election. The prior MEC officers may have the ability to come in and take over where Lisa and Jeff have left off without much difficulty, but it doesn't mean we want or need them too. It doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the membership.

 

[Sandy Eggo]

Ok...so you have added in the difference in pay as well to come up with your higher yearly salary. Pay parity should have nothing to do with whether or not we keep the 5th week of vacation. I am all for pay parity. It means it's a contract with no visible raise in it.

Yes I compared the difference in pay to come up with the higher salary. What did you think I should do, add up the income from working through every week of vacation for a 6 year flight attendant and compare that. Ok here you go, it is just as ugly. That would be approx $3600 annually which still leaves an income deficit of $4918 for the year vs. just the East annual guarantee, very visible difference. The West flight attendant who has just worked through their entire alloted vacation to make ends meet still makes less money than their East counterpart's guarantee and has been forced to negate their earned benefit (a vacation that is not a vacation). The West reserves get to have double the pain while the West 5 weekers , who do not have much of a delta between their pay and the East, get to have double the fun.

Doug Parker has said in the Crew news sessions that he can't give the West Flight Attendants pay parity without giving something extra to the East, like more vacation. What I am hearing is, to the company, pay parity has a relationship to the amount of vacation pay out that a work group gets. When I watch those videos it sure looks to me like Doug would love to get the FA pay parity monkey off of his back and keeps hinting at how it could be done.

I realize that the JNC and the company would rather gallop toward a joint contract and so would I, but the timeline on that is still vague at best. In the meantime the West reserves continue to be the scapegoats for the entire Flight Attendant group while others get a weeks paid vacation damn near every 2 months.

It is a glaring inequity and although I think that at this point, Side Letters have a very poor chance of being addressed by the company and Section 6 even less, if there is ANY way to get parity and temporary relief for the West junior reserves I all for it.

 

[Sandy Eggo]

I just spoke to several West furloghed F/As, and they stated, yes, they are posting and reading on AFA66 forum. May be your friend , is not exactly, telling the truth. Furthermore, I just so 3 posting from furloughed F/as on the forum. Please, do not spread misinformation.

The involuntary furloughed F/as disappeared pretty much all at once after Yousey57's little online tantrum and appeal to Jeff about not wanting his dues to pay for their participation on the discussion board.

Another Fa called the office and Jeff confirmed that the invols had been locked out.

So if you are seeing postings from furloughed F/as it is the ones who are on on voluntary, or maybe you knew that.

Perhaps Council66 is reversing their very poor decison on this after it got a little press?

I will accept what you say when I see some of the well known and liked invol posters back there or here.

Paging Howard Hall.....

 

[HP2USFA]

Amen!

 

[hpflygirl]

Doug's comments about not being able to give the west f/a's pay parity with the east without giving the east something extra, like an extra week of vacation, is not about getting a raise in a joint contract. It's about giving us pay parity now, before the joint contract is finished....something Sec. 6 negotiations is trying to accomplish. Mike Flores put out a letter stating the east would stand beside us for pay parity WITHOUT expecting anything in return. He said they would stand with us if we chose the CHAOS option.

The ball is in Doug's court and he's not playing.

 

[valuesrok]

I just spoke to several West furloghed F/As, and they stated, yes, they are posting and reading on AFA66 forum. May be your friend , is not exactly, telling the truth. Furthermore, I just so 3 posting from furloughed F/as on the forum. Please, do not spread misinformation.

I'M CALLING YOU OUT ON THAT. I am a furloughed west fa, I no longer can access the afa66.org discussion board "Access Suspended per AFA 66 Secretary Treasurer - Furlough Status" That was cut and paste, drrstrav, so I suggest YOU are the one not telling the truth, please know what you are talking about before posting. There is no need to stir the pot. Jeff pulled access, plain and simple. Check facebook under afa66 for more about the subject why dont you. Furthermore, I am still awaiting a reply to my email dated 10/12 to Lisa. She clearly and specifically stated we would have access to that board throughout the furlough period.

 

[HP_JACK]

Furthermore, I am still awaiting a reply to my email dated 10/12 to Lisa. She clearly and specifically stated we would have access to that board throughout the furlough period.

Good Luck with that, a lot of us are waiting.

 

[hp_fa]

Mike Flores put out a letter stating the east would stand beside us for pay parity WITHOUT expecting anything in return. He said they would stand with us if we chose the CHAOS option.

Whoop Dee Doo. He has no choice but to stand with AFA 66 if they strike, at least not if he want to be a union member, let alone leader.

 

[Sandy Eggo]

Doug's comments about not being able to give the west f/a's pay parity with the east without giving the east something extra, like an extra week of vacation, is not about getting a raise in a joint contract. It's about giving us pay parity now, before the joint contract is finished...

The ball is in Doug's court and he's not playing.

Yes......... I know we are discussing pay parity before a joint contract. That is the situation I described and the question that is repeatedly brought up and answered by Doug using the vacation time example at the Crew News sessions.

Doug cannot make a suggestion on how pay parity could be accomplished before a joint contract. He has to state contract cost and benefit equity to keep the company on solid legal footing. He has to state that a joint contract is the optimum solution to encourage momentum at negotiations. But that doesn't mean that the ball is out of play, especially if a joint contract is not in the foreseeable future. It's possible to hear underlying suggestions by listening for intended subtleties when executive management is doing corporatespeak or by reading carefully.

I appreciate your position but I am sure you appreciate where your reserves stand too.