aircraft damaged philly

[Bluesky]

This has got to be a better solution than forming the usual circular firing squad and pointing fingers.


Both good posts, however, the lack of 'finger pointing' has gotten PHL in the position it is in. If this was the first U mishap on the ramp, then we'll call it what it is. However, this isn't the first, and a lack of addressing ground damage by management is a problem.

The operating certificate by any airline must ensure safety is the first priority, administered by the management team, not the union or anyone else. If placing an aircraft on a desolate ramp with only one vehicle approaching at a time is the means to achieve safety, so be it. Safety costs money, whether measured by an individual to have a fire extinguisher in his kitchen, a raft on his boat, or a corporation to exercize all available means to ensure the safety of their workers and customers.

It appears U does the minimum required in terms of training, up to date equipment, ramp safety, ect. Just look at the pathetic state of equipment, parking of vehicles, standardized and proper clothing on the ramp. It's even hard to find an aircraft parker with a lighted wand. PHL is like a factory floor that's a hazard to walk on. Would you as a customer buy U's product by looking at the way the place is kept! Take a tour of Frank Robinson's heli factory in Torrence and see if there is a pride of working. You can drop your sandwich and not even think about the germs. That, translates into a safe and productive workplace which in turn increases profits by instilling customer confidence. When the top doesn't care, why should the bottom. It's time someone at the top pays a price. Nuff said.

 

[MarkMyWords]

If not management, who is responsible for making sure what is going on around thier aircraft? Is it the employees job to ensure proper training? New hires and inexperienced people dont even know what they dont know.

Sure it's the guy's fault that hit the airplane. But management is responsible for ensuring the proper training and hiring of qualified individuals to do the job. Min wage wont do it. dont forget a year or so ago with that poor soul in DC.
I can tell you first hand from the cockpit there are many new people on these ramps that are doing many questionable things. This is managements fault.

1. Any employee that is not comfortable with the training they receive should voice their need for additional training or supervised ride alongs until they are comfortable with the tasks they are to perform.

2. We do not know the seniority of the person that struck the aircraft. You are assumming that it was a newbie. What if it was a 25 year agent? Is it still a training issue or a mistake/bad judegement?

In a stataion that I used to work in, a caterer was written up for not waiting for his co-worker to guide him to the airplane. The Sup/Manager happened to be driving by and wrote him up. Same station, a ramp agent (after several verbal warnings) is written up for parking a beltloader to far over the yellow safety line. Another ramp agent is written up for marshalling an airplane to the gate, at night, without wands (that were sitting on the pushback unit). After these three incidents, the rampers and the union are screaming bloody murder because, "Management is coming down on employees to hard" or "Management is picking on the employees and creating a hostle work environment."

In the above scenario's, if the company made catering agents ride in trucks alone, provided no guide person to assist in moving the catering truck around the airplane, then the Managers are at fault. If the Management did not paint the safety lines around the gate area and equipment is parked to close to an airplane and causes damage, the managers are at fault. If the managers did not provide lighted wands to assist in marshalling airplanes into the gate and there was an incident of aircraft damage, then the managers would be at fault.

So where does employee responsibility fall in all this? If youdon't feel you have been trained properly, say something. Document it. Talk to your union. If you feel that you are being asked to work in an unsafe environment, asked to perform an unsafe task, refuse to do it. Get your union involved.

As a Sales Trainer I just love ya!!!!

Now for those of you playing the "at home" version of "As the Airline Crumbles" can ANYONE tell me what group determines the appropriate level of training? Is it -

The IAM?

The individual empowered worker?

Or could it possibly be Management?

All 3.

If the employee feels that their training is sub-par, they need to request additional training. If the IAM feels that employees are not being trained properly they need to bring this to the attention of the appropriate executive. If you do not get the desired results, do what Bob and Teddy do and talk trash in the press. It is managements responsibility to ensure that the employees have the tools and oversight to get the job done, but they can't be everywhere, watching everyone.

The time to complain about improper or lack of training is BEFORE there is an accident, not after.

Once again, the assumption is that this person is a new hire that was improperly trained. Show me the facts first. Do any of you know who this person is? What the circumstances were?

 

[libertybell]

If the employee feels that their training is sub-par, they need to request additional training. If the IAM feels that employees are not being trained properly they need to bring this to the attention of the appropriate executive. If you do not get the desired results, do what Bob and Teddy do and talk trash in the press. It is managements responsibility to ensure that the employees have the tools and oversight to get the job done, but they can't be everywhere, watching everyone.

Wow Its hard to believe someone else on this planet thinks the IAM AGC's and other reps needs to get up off its lazy butts go to the media and start addressing these problems like Bob and Teddy. I can only imagine how fast the training and equipment would begin to improve. Negtive reports often produce positive corective results. But hey with Reps all making 100,000 a yr. They dont give a @##$ about the workers safety.In the IAM view everyone should just shut up and keep paying them.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

I doubt that training has anything at all to do with the damage at PHL. The USE damage that occurs there yearly is always at least three times higher than PIT and twice as high as CLT. Distraction and lack of attention to procedure seem to be the biggest causes of A/C damage at PHL Express. I would sugest that any mainline damage that occurs is probably due to the same or very similar reasons.

Self-responsibility seems to go out the door with most of the arguements I have seen here in this thread. Whereas I think management is inept in PHL, and the unions are more interested in whining about contracts instead a self-policing their membership, ultimately the blame falls on the individual who caused the damage.

All of you can continue to yell at each other about how uninformed the "other guy" is, but you are missing the forest for the trees as far as I'm concerned.

 

[john john]

You shouldn’t have a policy if you hit a plane you are fired

 

[bulldog]

You shouldn’t have a policy if you hit a plane you are fired

As much of an anti union person that I am I agree with John John Find out the facts and then react appropriatly. My issue is that he / she ran and left the scene, that is pretty hard to overcome. However we need to hear the other side of what happened. As for blaming Management / Unions / or anything else get a grip sometimes Crud like this happens. You , Me , anyone can and has screwed up in the past we learn by it and move on.

 

[AstroLounge]

An accident is an accident and can happen to ANYONE. Hitting the a/c and fleeing the scene is an entirely different issue........if that is indeed what happened, not only should the individual(s) be terminated they should face charges. There are alot of people on the ramp that could have been in harms way, not to mention pax and a/c that could have been in the path of the GET-A-WAY truck. Where in the hell do they find some of these people anyways?