ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 2/6 to 2/13

[sharktooth]

Yet still no mention of the letters...

I wonder if Bradford will even publish the NMB's inevitable denial of last week's Hail Mary.

Keeping people informed.....yeah...right!

Can you post links or are you simply, um, imaginative?

 

[Phoenix]

Yet still no mention of the letters...

I wonder if Bradford will even publish the NMB's inevitable denial of last week's Hail Mary.

Keeping people informed.....yeah...right!

What are you babbling about?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Look guys, usapa has shown one thing with their latest "card-trimming-gate" and it's simply this: no matter how bad ALPA is, usapa is going to be immeasurably worse. For God's sake, f/O Bradford and company took a VERY simple and straigtforward process and managed to eff that up. I can't believe anybody could be that stupid. I'm not going personal, but sometimes you gotta call it as it is.

Your entire legal argument is unsound and although I will not share anything with the adversary, I would call your attention to the fact that the West did not cave last week when it was under enormous pressure from all parties to do so. The capitulation long hoped for by the East and National did not materialize.

Now there is this....a total implosion at usapa. At this point I'm 99% certain that the Hail Mary from last week concerned the second batch of cards and if that is the case, there will not be a vote this year. Even if there was a vote and even if usapa became the CBA, then we on the West were more than ready to take it to the courthouse. Our greatest fear was a capitulation last week and by the Grace of God, we stared down the paper tiger. It would have been an incredible tragedy had the West caved right before the implosion

Now it's up to the East. The West line has held even despite ENORMOUS pressure to cave. The West will continue to hold. One thing must be made clear: the West has every right - equitably, ethically, and legally - to enforce the arbitration. The West is not out to take anything, or to circumvent the law or to undue that which cannot legally be undone. Rather, it's all about proceeding forward. Neither group asked for this merger, but we are stuck together and will be for the remainder of our careers. When the NMB letter arrives, it will be time for many on the East to take a look at their personal lives and think about where they want to be in a year. The West has made it very clear that they support retroactivity for the East. The choice is yours.

 

[nostradamus]

The choice is yours.

We will make that choice in the very near future. Alpa receivership will be a short term victory for you. Excuse me I think I saw a UFO go by, got to go.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yet still no mention of the letters...

I wonder if Bradford will even publish the NMB's inevitable denial of last week's Hail Mary.

Keeping people informed.....yeah...right!

Denial.....You wish!

Dream On...we're voting.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Look guys, usapa has shown one thing with their latest "card-trimming-gate" and it's simply this: no matter how bad ALPA is, usapa is going to be immeasurably worse. For God's sake, f/O Bradford and company took a VERY simple and straigtforward process and managed to eff that up. I can't believe anybody could be that stupid. I'm not going personal, but sometimes you gotta call it as it is.

What little YOU know. I was involved with the authorization cards. If you haven't done it before it is more difficult then one is led to believe. With 3,200 cards it is a VERY difficult task. That letter is irrelevant. The replacment cards fullfilled that task once again making these letter issues moot in any case. The purpose of the letters is to capture any cards that some may not have been able to send in again...it was a very, very small amount.

Your entire legal argument is unsound and although I will not share anything with the adversary, I would call your attention to the fact that the West did not cave last week when it was under enormous pressure from all parties to do so. It didn't take five minutes before the usapa boogie man was mentioned from all corners and make no mistake, the mere mention of usapa made some on the West were very nervous. What calmed those individuals were the legal facts. The research for those facts were not the work product of Freund or from ALPA National; we had to find it ourselves. However, it wasn't hard to find and the material is plenty convincing for even the weakest on the West team. Hence, the capitulation long hoped for by the East and National did not materialize.

Legal facts. You better believe it. USAPA has the LEGAL FACTS. And you're about to find out. And you WILL find out for yourselves...and YOU WON'T LIKE IT! You just keep "convincing" yourself. It will make our job all the more easier. I didn't expect you to capitulate. IN FACT, I WAS COUNTING ON THE OPPOSITE!!

Now there is this....a total implosion at usapa. At this point I'm 99% certain that the Hail Mary from last week concerned the second batch of cards and if that is the case, there will not be a vote this year. Even if there was a vote and even if usapa became the CBA, then we on the West were more than ready to take it to the courthouse. Our greatest fear was a capitulation last week and by the Grace of God, we stared down the paper tiger. It would have been an incredible tragedy had the West caved right before the implosion

You sure try to do a lot of "convincing" yourself about this USAPA "implosion". Please do me a favor...keep trying to "convince" yourself. There will be an election and after the USAPA road show from last week along with the Council 90 "west" reps, you're going to get a rude awakening. The only "implosion" you'll have is the one you'll have on the toilet from all that manure you've been feeding yourself. LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AT THE COURTHOUSE. I WILL BE THERE AND YOU WILL KNOW MY NAME! I don't expect to see you there. You're all talk and no bite...just like on THIS forum.

Now it's up to the East. The West line has held even despite ENORMOUS pressure to cave. The West will continue to hold. One thing must be made clear: the West has every right - equitably, ethically, and legally - to enforce the arbitration. The West is not out to take anything, or to circumvent the law or to undue that which cannot legally be undone. Rather, it's all about proceeding forward. Neither group asked for this merger, but we are stuck together and will be for the remainder of our careers. When the NMB letter arrives, it will be time for many on the East to take a look at their personal lives and think about where they want to be in a year. The West has made it very clear that they support retroactivity for the East as well has heavily weighted payscales for longer longevity F/Os. The choice is yours.

You're my HERO!!! THE WEST LINE HELD!!! The nail is in the coffin for ALPA now. Thank you for your support.

We'll CHOOSE USAPA. Don't you fret. You keep dreaming about that "award". If you think you'll be singing the same tune after the election, you have another thing coming. Hope you're collecting for that assessment fund you'll be needing. It going to take ALOT. Hope your "sage" new UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR legal counsel brings his RLA book. I'm counting on him actually USING IT! I hope this IS one of the books you've read because WE HAVE READ IT! We'll see how much LEGAL "resolve" you have when USAPA gets in.

AWA pilots HATE US Airways EAST pilots. The "Dirt on DeCert" proves it. YOU WANT OUR JOBS.....AND WE WON'T SURRENDER THEM TO YOU!! IS....THAT....CLEAR???? Looking forward to that letter because when it DOESN'T COME I'm going to rub your nose in it. You spew forth on this forum with this "wishfull" bull---- and this "West line" won't hold once outside of ALPA. Keep dreaming. Oh, and...your right. The choice IS ours....for a CHANGE!!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Look guys, usapa has shown one thing with their latest "card-trimming-gate" and it's simply this: no matter how bad ALPA is, usapa is going to be immeasurably worse. For God's sake, f/O Bradford and company took a VERY simple and straigtforward process and managed to eff that up. I can't believe anybody could be that stupid. I'm not going personal, but sometimes you gotta call it as it is.

Worse? No matter what we do, it would be worse in your eyes. So we will just have to see how this plays out. As for the cards, it really doesn't matter as the cards have been replaced. The beauty of this, for those fence sitters who might have sent in a card the first time "to send ALPA a message" could have easily not sent in a replacement. We now have more cards the second time around than we did on filing day. It may actually be the best thing as it solidified our support.

Your entire legal argument is unsound and although I will not share anything with the adversary, I would call your attention to the fact that the West did not cave last week when it was under enormous pressure from all parties to do so. It didn't take five minutes before the usapa boogie man was mentioned from all corners and make no mistake, the mere mention of usapa made some on the West were very nervous. What calmed those individuals were the legal facts. The research for those facts were not the work product of Freund or from ALPA National; we had to find it ourselves. However, it wasn't hard to find and the material is plenty convincing for even the weakest on the West team. Hence, the capitulation long hoped for by the East and National did not materialize.

Personally I didn't expect anything from the lock down. So it would seem we will have a difference of opinion on whose legal standing is the best. From what I do know, I like USAPA's side the best. So after the election, knock you self out if it will make you feel better.

Now there is this....a total implosion at usapa. At this point I'm 99% certain that the Hail Mary from last week concerned the second batch of cards and if that is the case, there will not be a vote this year. Even if there was a vote and even if usapa became the CBA, then we on the West were more than ready to take it to the courthouse. Our greatest fear was a capitulation last week and by the Grace of God, we stared down the paper tiger. It would have been an incredible tragedy had the West caved right before the implosion

Implosion? Not hardly. It was a self discovered error. But the best of all is the absolutely successful replacement drive.
Lawsuits are a fact of life. Winning one is another story. Actually, as stated, I'm glad nothing came out of the lock down.

Now it's up to the East. The West line has held even despite ENORMOUS pressure to cave. The West will continue to hold. One thing must be made clear: the West has every right - equitably, ethically, and legally - to enforce the arbitration. The West is not out to take anything, or to circumvent the law or to undue that which cannot legally be undone. Rather, it's all about proceeding forward. Neither group asked for this merger, but we are stuck together and will be for the remainder of our careers. When the NMB letter arrives, it will be time for many on the East to take a look at their personal lives and think about where they want to be in a year. The West has made it very clear that they support retroactivity for the East as well has heavily weighted payscales for longer longevity F/Os. The choice is yours.

You're right about the east. It's up to us to vote. So now you spent a paragraph before telling us there won't be a vote, and now you tell us to think long and hard on when the letter arrives. So what's your point here? Either you believe the cards are valid or you don't. I think we will have an election and USAPA will prevail. ALPA thinks the same thing, hence my previous posts on the CLT roadshows.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The purpose of the letters is to capture any cards that some may not have been able to send in again...it was a very, very small amount.

Well, if it's merely as you say, then somebody isn't telling the truth here. After reading both letters, Seham's and ALPA's, the arguments aren't even close. It's obvious who has the clear advantage, and it's not your guy who rambles on for several paragraphs citing irrelevant case law, suggests a procedure that is totally inapplicable to your prayer for relief, and then goes out on a limb with creative characterizations. Take for example Seham's choice to use the word "trimmed." The common understanding of the word "trimmed" would be, say, a fraction of a card being shaved off. But, from looking at the card itself which is attached as an exhibit, and from I can gather from Seham's argument, it is clear that we're talking about a heck of a lot more than just a "trimming." Rather, it looks like you're missing nearly half of the card; you're missing the entire recital section on the cards! And that is not an insignificant portion either! The next question is - how many? Interestingly, the Seaham letter makes no mention of the number. For that all we have is what the ALPA letter and all we know is that it is a "significant" number. The only party who really knows at this point is your messiah, and he is strangely mute. Your gang just couldn't talk enough about open and honest communications, yet two "updates" have gone by and there was no mention whatsoever by Bradford. Common sense would dictate that if this were a non-event, then he would have been the first to say so. Finally, any reasonable person would understand that an attorney with a clear advantage would be foolish to mischaracterize or embellish facts when the facts and the law are so supportive of his or her case. Here, ALPA's letter is very careful and very confident, as it should be when the facts are so supportive of your position.

Bottom line is that if you are so confident that an objective reading of both letters is contrary to my assessment, then why not post them and let all East pilots make their own determination as to which one is credible? Remember, you were the one that came on here begging for a copy. If this is a lot of nothing, then post the letters.

The great thing about the truth is that it will set you free.

 

[nostradamus]

Bottom line is that if you are so confident that an objective reading of both letters is contrary to my assessment, then why not post them and let all East pilots make their own determination as to which one is credible? Remember, you were the one that came on here begging for a copy. If this is a lot of nothing, then post the letters.

The great thing about the truth is that it will set you free.

You are concerned, but say you are not. The mere fact you are on this board pontificating proves this. Shut up and lets vote. If the vote fails or receivership is the option, we are your worst nightmare.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Bottom line is that if you are so confident that an objective reading of both letters is contrary to my assessment, then why not post them and let all East pilots make their own determination as to which one is credible? Remember, you were the one that came on here begging for a copy. If this is a lot of nothing, then post the letters.

The great thing about the truth is that it will set you free.

I personally don't care whether the letters get posted or not. We have filed the replacements. In fact they have been in for quite some time now. The cut off was the day the company filed the seniority list. You keep wanting to make something out of nothing, for what purpose? The affidavit was filed to recapture cards that may or may not be affected and may or may not have been replaced. I think you are smart enough to figure it out by now.

I don't have the letters. But I did get a briefing last Friday. So why don't you enlighten us and then make your point. If not I would say you don't have them either. Usually you guys try to embarrass USAPA at any time with false claims and innuendo plus trying to build a mountain out of a mole hill. IMO The filing is covering all bases. Very Smart.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well, if it's merely as you say, then somebody isn't telling the truth here. After reading both letters, Seham's and ALPA's, the arguments aren't even close. It's obvious who has the clear advantage, and it's not your guy who rambles on for several paragraphs citing irrelevant case law, suggests a procedure that is totally inapplicable to your prayer for relief, and then goes out on a limb with creative characterizations. Take for example Seham's choice to use the word "trimmed." The common understanding of the word "trimmed" would be, say, a fraction of a card being shaved off. But, from looking at the card itself which is attached as an exhibit, and from I can gather from Seham's argument, it is clear that we're talking about a heck of a lot more than just a "trimming." Rather, it looks like you're missing nearly half of the card; you're missing the entire recital section on the cards! And that is not an insignificant portion either! The next question is - how many? Interestingly, the Seaham letter makes no mention of the number. For that all we have is what the ALPA letter and all we know is that it is a "significant" number. The only party who really knows at this point is your messiah, and he is strangely mute. Your gang just couldn't talk enough about open and honest communications, yet two "updates" have gone by and there was no mention whatsoever by Bradford. Common sense would dictate that if this were a non-event, then he would have been the first to say so. Finally, any reasonable person would understand that an attorney with a clear advantage would be foolish to mischaracterize or embellish facts when the facts and the law are so supportive of his or her case. Here, ALPA's letter is very careful and very confident, as it should be when the facts are so supportive of your position.

Bottom line is that if you are so confident that an objective reading of both letters is contrary to my assessment, then why not post them and let all East pilots make their own determination as to which one is credible? Remember, you were the one that came on here begging for a copy. If this is a lot of nothing, then post the letters.

The great thing about the truth is that it will set you free.

I personally have not seen the letters, but I knew what they were about....at least the USAPA letter. I haven't any knowledge about what the ALPA letter is in response to although I can guess. It isn't really important, though, since I have already spoken to Seham about them at the road show and received an explaination from Bradford. In short, I know the purpose, I just didn't know the details. Again, as I said, the purpose isn't in any way nefarious, it is clerical. FYI. Why mention something everyone knows about already...the cards were inadvertantly trimmed. Look, in the grand scheme of things this isn't an "implosion" as you might WISH!

I sincerely THANK YOU for your HEROIC effort to STAY TOGETHER. You have done all of us a service. Soon your efforts will pay off...for USAPA. Thank you for your continued support.

And we agree....the great thing about truth is JUSTICE.

 

[prechilill]

I personally have not seen the letters, but I knew what they were about....at least the USAPA letter. I haven't any knowledge about what the ALPA letter is in response to although I can guess. It isn't really important, though, since I have already spoken to Seham about them at the road show and received an explaination from Bradford. In short, I know the purpose, I just didn't know the details. Again, as I said, the purpose isn't in any way nefarious, it is clerical. FYI. Why mention something everyone knows about already...the cards were inadvertantly trimmed. Look, in the grand scheme of things this isn't an "implosion" as you might WISH!

I sincerely THANK YOU for your HEROIC effort to STAY TOGETHER. You have done all of us a service. Soon your efforts will pay off...for USAPA. Thank you for your continued support.

And we agree....the great thing about truth is JUSTICE.

You guys are a real life version of the "Truman Show"- secluded from the real word and fed bits and pieces of news which has been well-sanitized before it reaches your eyes. Voting isn't going to change anything- eternal hope and star wishing doesn't change anything either. Some of you probably understand this, many of you do not.

 

[pilot]

Yet still no mention of the letters...

I wonder if Bradford will even publish the NMB's inevitable denial of last week's Hail Mary.

Keeping people informed.....yeah...right!

Yo, Sparky, and all you other AWA guys:

5 Grand says there will be a vote on this property arranged by the NMB to determine if ALPA or USAPA is the bargaining agent for the pilots of US Airways. The NMB voting date will be set sometime within the next two months from this date 2/12/07.

Please respond to this wager on these boards and I will get with you privately via email to arrange for a neutral party to hold certified bank checks that will go to the winner of the wager.

Your confidence in the ineptness of the USAPA organizers should make this an easy 5 Grand for you all. I will cover ALL bets from AWA pilots only.

pilot

 

[luvthe9]

Yo, Sparky, and all you other AWA guys:

5 Grand says there will be a vote on this property arranged by the NMB to determine if ALPA or USAPA is the bargaining agent for the pilots of US Airways. The NMB voting date will be set sometime within the next two months from this date 2/12/07.

Please respond to this wager on these boards and I will get with you privately via email to arrange for a neutral party to hold certified bank checks that will go to the winner of the wager.

Your confidence in the ineptness of the USAPA organizers should make this an easy 5 Grand for you all. I will cover ALL bets from AWA pilots only.

pilot

That's stealing, the A-WEST pilots don't seem to get it!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

And we are supposed to believe you would man up and honor your agreement if you lost the bet? ha ha ha ha , good one. Yeah, yeah, I know you mentioned a few ground rules, but I wouldn't count on that. Ground rules, what are those? Ah, there will be a way around that.