ALPA/USAPA topic of the week 2/13-2/19

[sharktooth]

It is called "drawing the sting." The lawyer, rather then wait for a Perry Mason moment, brings up the unflattering topic himself, thereby trying to show the jury that while the client may not be a saint, the jury is getting the truth from them and that they can rely on the testimony as being truthful.

IANAL, but, it seems you are describing what is known as "inoculating oneself".

As far as attorneys, the issue should be, which is more accountable, a law firm working directly for your MEC or a law firm working for a national office that is on "loan" to ones MEC? Some of the pilots saw through the ALPA supplied "financial advisor" of several years back. It took an unnecessary LOA 93 for others to realize they had been had, by ALPA.

I believe USAPA, in "defending" the law firm, is simply providing information about the law firm. While a fine line can lie between providing information and defending, I would not consider what they have said so far to be "defending" the firm.

 

[dariencc]

Yes, defensive.

The best analogy that quickly comes to mind is something that trial lawyers do when they know their client has something that the other side is going to exploit at some point during testimony. It is called "drawing the sting."

Does every AWA employee double as a self proclaimed legal expert, or is it just my imagination? :blink:

A little history. Prater and his ACPC band of bozos have been trashing USAPA's law firm in a series of not very convincing emails. A former Continental IACP (Independent Assn. of Continental Pilots) Mec officer named Rene Minjares, who served with Prater, wrote USAPA a nice letter which in so many words said that Alpa's attacks were just so much bull****. Capt. Minjares also forwarded a copy of a letter from the three CAL Mec officers (including Prater )which thanked Seham for their outstanding service.

Here's part: "As the brass plate indicates, the pilots of Continental Airlines and Continental Express owe their new found quality of life to your generosity and belief that a bunch of rabble-rousers could, in fact, better their lives."

Advantage: USAPA!

 

[hp_fa]

Does every AWA employee double as a self proclaimed legal expert, or is it just my imagination? :blink:

I had 12 years working in law before I went to work for HP. Is that sufficient for you to at least acknowledge I have a background in law?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Does every AWA employee double as a self proclaimed legal expert, or is it just my imagination? :blink:

A little history. Prater and his ACPC band of bozos have been trashing USAPA's law firm in a series of not very convincing emails. A former Continental IACP (Independent Assn. of Continental Pilots) Mec officer named Rene Minjares, who served with Prater, wrote USAPA a nice letter which in so many words said that Alpa's attacks were just so much bull****. Capt. Minjares also forwarded a copy of a letter from the three CAL Mec officers (including Prater )which thanked Seham for their outstanding service.

Here's part: "As the brass plate indicates, the pilots of Continental Airlines and Continental Express owe their new found quality of life to your generosity and belief that a bunch of rabble-rousers could, in fact, better their lives."

Advantage: USAPA!

I guess there is one scab you guys like.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I had 12 years working in law before I went to work for HP. Is that sufficient for you to at least acknowledge I have a background in law?

Actually, I appreciate that. What did you get to do that was so much fun about it? What did you hate?

 

[sharktooth]

I had 12 years working in law before I went to work for HP. Is that sufficient for you to at least acknowledge I have a background in law?

Legal secretary? You quit to go to a $10,000 a year job slinging drinks, no tips?

If I pushed a mop in a law firm but I would not consider myself an attorney much less imply I knew what was going on.

 

[nostradamus]

Does every AWA employee double as a self proclaimed legal expert, or is it just my imagination? :blink:

You would figure all the AWA employee legal expertise would have helped get their ceo out of his fourth DUI. It would have saved him the humiliation of the womens prison visit he had to stay in for "one" night. I guess their law field of study is conjecture not evidence.

 

[flynomore]

From 2/18 ATA Smartbrief email blast:

Judge's ruling threatens safety reporting plan, carriers say
Some experts say a recent order by a federal judge may make pilots and other workers reluctant to file voluntary incident reports. The order requires a regional airline to provide pilot incident reports to families suing the carrier over a fatal 2006 crash. The Air Transport Association and Southwest Airlines have filed motions asking the judge to reconsider the ruling. "Quite simply, if airline industry personnel know that filing an ASAP report has the potential to embroil them in civil litigation, they will be much less likely to report potential safety problems," Southwest's lawyers wrote. The Washington Post (2/16)

It is my hope that USAPA or ALPA safety keep these reports in house where they belong. With the known hostility towards pilots in general and specifically "east" pilots that exists in the current company department I fear the worst going forward.

 

[hp_fa]

Actually, I appreciate that. What did you get to do that was so much fun about it? What did you hate?

I loved legal research and writing. Finding law to fit a fact pattern and drafting a compelling motion or brief.

I absolutely hated domestic relations. It was the illogic of emotions running headlong into the unemotional law.

 

[flyinawa]

You would figure all the AWA employee legal expertise would have helped get their ceo out of his fourth DUI. It would have saved him the humiliation of the womens prison visit he had to stay in for "one" night. I guess their law field of study is conjecture not evidence.

Nah, "OUR" CEO served his time like a big boy. And depending on your perspective, spending a night in a women's prison has the potential for one hell of a fun evening. But hey, if showering with the boys is your idea of how to avoid humiliation and have a little fun....I'm sure you could find someone to play "drop the soap" with.

 

[EastUS]

Nah, "OUR" CEO served his time like a big boy. And depending on your perspective, spending a night in a women's prison has the potential for one hell of a fun evening.

"And depending on your perspective,..." Yup. I can't imagine anything more heroic than insisting on being placed in a women's jail....

By way of regaining union issues focus.....Just curious:Were any Alpa Goats involved?

 

[b737fo]

Wow. Another priceless ALPA/USAPA thread. So far I have learned about someone's previous legal career and whether or not the CEO is "yours", "ours", or "theirs". :huh:

Now I am the responsible party for keeping this weekly diatribe inane and off topic.
What a waste of bandwidth.

Blue skies this week and stay safe everyone.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Maybe we're not the only ones that value seniority:

"A plan for merging seniority lists covering about 6,300 pilots at Delta and 4,800 at Northwest that includes adjusting their seniority based on overall experience. That would quell concerns from some of Northwest's highest-ranking pilots that less-experienced peers at Delta would be given the same seniority."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/351794_pilots19.html

Who is in the "minority" now?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:


SENIORITY MATTERS
The second in a series that takes an honest look at seniority.

Seniority Matters - Even on the West property

Recently USAPA published Part 1 of a series called "Seniority Matters;" this article detailed the different aspects of where seniority comes from.

As an overview, the article referenced Section 22 of the AAA pilot contract which determines seniority for the East pilots. We showed, through what is contained in Section 22, that seniority is defined through the collective bargaining agreement. In other words, each pilot here gets their seniority from the contract.

In Part 2 of this series, we explore the questions, "What about a West pilot? Where does he/she get their seniority?"

Turns out a West pilot also gets their seniority from Section 22 of their contract. Let's take a look at Section 22.A.1 of the AWA contract...

_______________________________________
SECTION 22

SENIORITY

A. GENERAL

1. Seniority of a Pilot shall begin on the Pilot's Date of Hire.

____________________________________________
Well, there it is again. The basic tenant of unionism; Date of Hire really does mean something. In fact, it appears that Date of Hire at the former America West operation means a lot in many ways. Date of Hire means that pilots use this to bid for equipment, base, and position on their system bids. Also the former America West pilots use Date of Hire to bid for monthly schedules, reserve lines and vacation. Yes, Date of Hire as a determinate of seniority is alive and well at the former America West operation.

As USAPA has proposed a Constitution and Bylaws which has the basic fundamental of Date of Hire, we trust that since this basic union tenant is already in place in the West contract, they will understand and embrace this concept. If it's good enough for the former America West pilots now, why wouldn't it be good enough later? Especially in consideration of possible industry consolidation through mergers.

USAPA and its supporters are very concerned about industry consolidation; as our Senior mgt. are quick to say on every news and business show they can land an appearance, they look forward to industry consolidation and the quick stock option payouts a new deal can bring. Looking forward, the concept of Date of Hire seniority is something everyone can understand. It is a time-tested, and court-tested methodology that is fair today, and is fair tomorrow. Your Date of Hire is something that no one can alter, and it is embodied within the pilot's working agreements, just like it is today in Section 22 of the East contract and Section 22 of the West contract. A pilot's Date of Hire, rather than being completely arbitrary, is something quantifiable that he or she will bring with them to the next merger.

Unions that embrace the basic fundamentals (such as seniority based on Date of Hire) within their Constitution and By-Laws fare much better during mergers and acquisitions. One only needs to look at the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) to see how easily they are able to combine workforces when they use the understandable premise of Date of Hire in mergers, unlike what is happening at ALPA, with an arbitrary policy that is tearing the union apart from within.

Seniority is a right of all pilots flying for American carriers, that prevents mischief from Management. This protects pilots and promotes unity and safety in our industry today. A concrete policy is not only desirable, but necessary for union pilots today.

USAPA applauds the West pilots and acknowledges their foresight in placing "Date of Hire" in Section 22 of their contract.

Look for Part 3 of "Seniority Matters" soon.

 

[flyinawa]

FYI:


SENIORITY MATTERS
The second in a series that takes an honest look at seniority.

Seniority Matters - Even on the West property

Recently USAPA published Part 1 of a series called "Seniority Matters;" this article detailed the different aspects of where seniority comes from.

blah, blah, blah.......

YAWN!