ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[AAA73Pilot]

More reps. FYI

Fellow pilot,
We are pleased to announce the Interim Reps for DCA.

The USAPA Interim Officers have accepted the Steering Committee's recommendations as follows (each includes a short bio as introduction):

DCA Interim Chairman - Captain Joseph Stein.

My name is Joe Stein. I was hired at USAir in June of 1985 and am presently an Airbus Captain in DCA. I was a 727 Engineer and then flew the DC9, 737-300 and Airbus 319. Before USAir I was in the Air Force where I was a T-38 Instructor and then flew C-141s. I have been married for 30 years (yes, to the same woman) and we have four children. I have a BA from the University of Virginia and a Masters Degree from Arizona State University.

After walking the picket line at United as a member of the “570â€￾ I began contributing my small share to our pilot group over the years by serving as a Media Spokesman, Scheduling Committee Volunteer and as the DCA Secretary Treasurer. I too think of myself as a line pilot who wants to help the pilot group recover from the events of the last few years. I am honored to be selected to assist in the USAPA organization.

DCA Interim Vice-Chairman - First Officer David Westberg.

My name is Dave Westberg, and I'm very happy to have been chosen as an Interim Representative in the Washington Ronald Reagan Crew Base. I was hired by Piedmont Airlines in 1987, and am just returning from 26 months of medical leave. During that time I have watched and hoped that USAPA would grow in strength and eventually have the momentum to serve the pilots of US Airways. It looks like that wish may indeed become a reality.

Over the past twenty one years of service here at US Airways, I have suffered many setbacks in career expectations. I am weary of fellow pilots with private agendas and lack of concern for the junior pilot deciding my fate. I am also very much in favor of having professional negotiators handling my future; something guaranteed in the USAPA Constitution. The momentum that USAPA has generated has started a wave of enthusiasm throughout our ranks. I am grateful to be a part of that enthusiasm, and am glad that I can show my fellow pilots that Seniority Does Matter, and that we should not be satisfied with the status quo.

Welcome aboard Gentlemen.

 

[KTM300]

Since you're the only poster who has said that they were there (unless I missed a post)....

Was he was extolling the virtues of ALPA and listing the pitfalls of USAPA, all the while urging you to vote for continued ALPA representation?
"I thank him for clearing up some questions I had. Was it appropriate for him to be in CLT? Maybe not. Not my call!"

Hmmm, no mention of political campaigning.

"I took advantage of the chance to talk to him however, and now feel I have a better sense of where he stands on a number of concerns that all active, currently paying dues members may have."


J Mac's message contents on the ejection from the crewroom - a version uncontested when I made my initial post. Followed by:


And to answer your original question, no - I don't have a dog in this fight. Like I said when I made my initial post on the subject, based on what had been posted to that point, it seemed that USAPA was potentially setting a dangerous precedent by apparently demanding a union rep be removed from the crewroom for merely answering pilot's questions. I know that if I were still active, knowing that a joint contract will be forthcoming eventually regardless of the name of the union and would possibly/likely contain some West contract provisions, I'd want some info on the West contract from someone who knows it, not someone who might have read it. Why? Because just reading a contract, or provisions of a contract, is no substitute for living under that contract when it comes to really understanding what all the words really mean. After all, isn't an informed pilot group a good thing?

I'd note that there still hasn't been any substantiation that J Mac was trying to sway anyone's vote or "campaign for ALPA" in any way, other than your somewhat late realization that "he was politiking" and "there was no mistaking what he was there for".
Jim

Mr. Boeing Boy,


What is your problem?

So....Because John Mc said it was USAPA's fault that he was asked to leave the crew room, it must be true!!! And just because I didn't type every word he said means he could not have been politicking. Your killing me!!!

Yes he answered some of my questions. Here are some examples: Why the large difference in DOH dates and Length of service dates on the seniority list for AWA pilots? Why do you and your merger committee chair, Kenneth Straver dislike each other so much? Why did you not support pay parity in the beginning? Tell me what you know about the scab pilots on the AWA pilot list. Since you are in CLT, were you invited to the MEC mtg going on at the same time? Were are you going next, PHL?

Finally Yes....he was pushing the new ALPA agenda. Separate operations! He said it a number of times. He tried to sell me on the idea and how it will work if both MEC's agree to it!!!!!!!!!!


Mr. Boeing boy, I read your posts. Some quite insightful and some quite thorough on financial matters. On this matter, you should not involve yourself. Other posters have supported your position as one of a neutral position and void of any emotion. Anyone who has an opinion on the seniority list and merging these two pilot groups, can not be unemotional. Your a smart guy, though your involvement here may give question to that. Sure John Mc answered my questions. What do you think he should have done? I gave him the chance. I wanted to feel him out. He got comfortable then he started his agenda. I expected it, but I didn't buy it. So call it what you want. I call it politicking!

You said you were or are in PIT. I will make the assumption that you were a USAir pilot at the time of the Piedmont /USAir merger. You remember how contentious that was. You may even remember some of the back room negotiating that was going on. The Piedmont guys wanted relative position and the USAir pilots wanted DOH. Well we know the result of that merger. DOH! That outcome may have been exceptable to you. Thats great. This piece of Sh*t stinks so bad, its time to flush it away.

This union, ALPA, has lost its reason for existence. It no longer recognizes the professional pilot as its priority. I personally can go back 23 years and talk about examples of ALPA's lack of integrity, morals, principals and unionship. The Nic award is only the catalyst that was necessary to begin the process that even the AWA pilots wanted a few years ago! Remove ALPA from the property.

 

[nostradamus]

"You said you were or are in PIT. I will make the assumption that you were a USAir pilot at the time of the Piedmont /USAir merger."

Jim was a Piedmont pilot. Not that their is anything wrong with that. A lot of the very brave USAPA pilots were former Piedmont pilots.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

A lot of the very brave USAPA pilots were former Piedmont pilots.

Thanks.

 

[hp_fa]

John McIlvenna is NOT a pilot first...he is the UNION leader for the West and his mission is clear....to engage in a union fact-finding mission crusade:

Your logic fails here. In order for him to be a MEC officer he must be a pilot. However, the opposite is not true.

 

[EastUS]

"John McIlvenna is NOT a pilot first...he is the UNION leader for the West and his mission is clear....to engage in a union fact-finding mission crusade:"

Your logic fails here. In order for him to be a MEC officer he must be a pilot. However, the opposite is not true.

Great!!..Ummm..what's his total flight time for.say...the last 3 years?...6? etc? Inguiring minds want to know The "logic" you're questioning's an issue of his priorities...not some clerical issue of whether he's previously bought a license to fly, or was actually usefull in the distant past. Line pilots actually fly...Alpa "politicians" pretty much don't...They just get paid.as if they actually flew their tails off at "Max Hours" per month...whilst "harrumphing" around at ALpo "business"...IE: riding to CLT to spread FUD for a day/etc 😉 I'll make you a very safe bet = Your boy's to receive more cash from his BS session in CLT than those commanding the planes that flew him there and back will see...Are there any out west that find it surprising that, after failing to start an internal Union..that this guy jumped aboard the Alpa gravy train ASAP?...Spare me...career politicians are nothing but career politicians..they ain't Line Pilots.

PS: Do you have any point to make? Oh...I'm sorry..you're perhaps asserting that your boy's indeed a "Pilot first"? 😉 Umm...Ho-kaay..from this gentleman's own pompous mouth: "I can’t believe that they would try and ban someone like me who has dedicated almost every year of his career as a union advocate for line pilots" "for line pilots" as opposed to BEING any semblance of a Line Pilot....Kindly also note that being a "union advocate" equates to being a "career" in this sorry person's mind = "dedicated almost every year of his career as a union advocate"...Ummm...starting to get even the slightest clue now? 😉 If not..ask for the W2's during his "career as a union advocate"..and compare them to those of actual Line Pilots....and do get back to me on your feelings after that 😉

 

[flytchick]

So you are saying that a W-2 qualifies how much you are giving to the pilot group? Where does flying and someone standing up for the union have to match?? Well, maybe you are giving it to the Dougie as he is making money off you as well, while you are in the trenches flying your butt off. (How many hours each month)?? I would rather have somone stand up for my rights within my union than sit back and pi** and moan.

 

[EastUS]

So you are saying that a W-2 qualifies how much you are giving to the pilot group? Where does flying and someone standing up for the union have to match?? Well, maybe you are giving it to the Dougie as he is making money off you as well, while you are in the trenches flying your butt off. (How many hours each month)?? I would rather have somone stand up for my rights within my union than sit back and pi** and moan.

"So you are saying that a W-2 qualifies how much you are giving to the pilot group?" Nope..in the case of Alpoids, being paid to be "max hours"..lol..."Pilots"..it's a direct measure of how much they're TAKING from the pilot group.

"Where does flying and someone standing up for the union have to match?? " Very good question..and all are free to examine the notion. What truly constitutes a "Pilot" versus a "politician"? I'm a bit old fashioned..I think "Pilots" should actually FLY, at least occasionally 😉 I don't believe in costumed politicians that only wear airline uniforms as phoney "suits" for appearances..so they can trumpet their supposed virtues as "pilots" to the actual Line Pilots.....perhaps you're fine with that..I'm not. Trick question = When's the last time Prater actually Captained an airliner?...and silence follows... I'd much rather hire professional negotiators with some degree of actual competence..rather than opportunistic people who pass themselves off as "fellow pilots", and are neither much in the way of current pilots, nor certainly any even slight semblance of well trained, much less actually competent negotiators. Hey..my "Sky Arrogance" has been clearly established in far earlier wagering posts..BUT: despite any "Sky Hero" BS of my own...would you want me to do your taxes for you?..How about perform open heart surgery on a loved one?...Defend you in a murder trial?....Even walk your dog?. 😉 Unless I've obsessively studied, and worked some years in attaining knowlege..I don't pretend that I have any such in a given field. I don't possess the needed arrogance to assume myself as universally competent, nor should ANYONE ..The point being that "Pilot Arrogance" means NOTHING within other arenas...PERIOD...which is a concept wholly denied by the arrogant Alpo "elite"..who imagine themselves Masters of All...and we've all sadly seen the actually disatrous results of their "brilliance" in the field of negotiations = No pensions/continued degradation of pay and benefits/duty rigs/work rules/etc...the list is truly too long for comfortable bandwidth useage. I've seen it in progress for well over two decades..and frankly?..I'm pretty much tired of it.....

"I would rather have somone stand up for my rights within my union than sit back and pi** and moan." I've no problem with that concept of standing up...we just disagree on what properly constitutes a "Union" vs some "association". As for the most essential issue though = " would rather have somone stand up for my rights"..Why not take on the responsibility of individual thought..and, for once even, consider standing up for yourself?..That's pretty much what we're on about out east, by way of the replacement Union.

"Dougie as he is making money off you as well," No Kidding!?..and...even after two plus years of enlightened Alpa "representation"?..and the west's hearty: "NO Parity untill we steal your seniority!" ? Say that it isn't so .Sigh..I just love Alpa..and your sort of "fellow pilots" as well naturally 😉 In any case..do some serious thinking on your own.......You may fully disagree, and that's fine..but..don't let it be some issue of ease, and acceptance... but really, truly THINK!!!

Let's VOTE!!!

 

[flytchick]

OK - then we can agree to disagree. Where is the difference in a pilot working his butt off for how many days in a row to get passengers to their destinations and back - and the pilot who has chosen to represent his pilot group against management? They are both working equally as hard for all the right reasons - to get a flippin paycheck and to make sure that there is job security. It is not ALPA vs. USAPPA it is US against management. Dougie is loving every single moment of this - as it is not costing him a dime. He just sits back as watches the circus. Ok. off the soapbox.... but I think we have more in common than you know.

 

[EastUS]

OK - then we can agree to disagree. Where is the difference in a pilot working his butt off for how many days in a row to get passengers to their destinations and back - and the pilot who has chosen to represent his pilot group against management?

That's easy. The former's performing a task s/he is trained for...the latter's likely tap dancing.. here's one for you then:

What's the difference between a pilot working his butt off to get passengers to their destinations/etc..and any shoe salesman/horse trainer/realtor/etc representing your pilot group against management? Do you not see the absurdity in this thinking that a pilot's the best qualified to "represent"? Dunno 'bout you...I was taught how to fly, how to "shoot"etc..but any negotiating skills (which from my postings, may clearly, and properly be seen as minimal at best) 😉 umm..well..they didn't come as any part of that package. I've been very fortunate in that I've managed to accumulate knowledge that allows me to do a few things extremely well..BUT...I've no fantasies that such constitutes universal ability,(the Lakers have yet to respond to my class action suit noting that short, ancient guys who can't actually play basketball, are fully under-represented on NBA teams..and that this is clearly discrimination) 😉... nor replete with narcicisstic, and fully absurd notions of self "importance"...hence..I'd make a very poor "politician" 😉 The point being..we can do far better as per those who currently "represent" us all.

If you've not COMPLETELY missed recent events...there's ample evidence being displayed that the curent "representation"..in fact...represents only the interests of a handfull of morally bankrupt jackals in Herndon, who have ZERO concern for any/all of our troubles. Does that fact that they can wear pilot "costumes" afford them any inherent "nobility"?..I think NOT. I'd rather have actual professionals in the field of negotiations working for us. Additionally?...Prater, and the majority of Alpoid "politicians' are about as much of a "Pilot" as is my dog...no disrespect to the dog..as he could probably outfly them 😉 People who love to fly..FLY...then..there are those who become employed and go: "Wow!..this Alpa things' a pretty cool free ride..and all I ever have to do is Harrumph when told to!"..."well...cool".

 

[end_of_alpa]

Your logic fails here. In order for him to be a MEC officer he must be a pilot. However, the opposite is not true.

Your missing the point. He is an elected rep. He certainly has to be a pilot. But he is an elected rep FIRST when at the airline and NOT performing the duties of pilot, or duties pertaining to pilotdom. The jumpseat may be used for commuters, which is the design purpose for work, and even sometimes play when trying to get somewhere else.

But it is CLEAR from Johns web blog he was engaging in union activity.

Your REASONING is what isn't logical.

 

[end_of_alpa]

OK - then we can agree to disagree. Where is the difference in a pilot working his butt off for how many days in a row to get passengers to their destinations and back - and the pilot who has chosen to represent his pilot group against management? They are both working equally as hard for all the right reasons - to get a flippin paycheck and to make sure that there is job security. It is not ALPA vs. USAPPA it is US against management. Dougie is loving every single moment of this - as it is not costing him a dime. He just sits back as watches the circus. Ok. off the soapbox.... but I think we have more in common than you know.

We do have more in common than we will admit. It's just that were not sacrificng seniority. And that says it all. No seniority...no union. How plain and simple.

"Where is the difference in a pilot working his butt off for how many days in a row to get passengers to their destinations and back - and the pilot who has chosen to represent his pilot group against management? They are both working equally as hard for all the right reasons - to get a flippin paycheck and to make sure that there is job security."

And there is the difference. When OUR years of working our "butts" off get valued less than YOUR years of working YOUR butts off....that says it ALL!

 

[ClueByFour]

And there is the difference. When OUR years of working our "butts" off get valued less than YOUR years of working YOUR butts off....that says it ALL!

They would hold less equipment, lesser seats, and be closer to furlough--each year was worth less. Had you guys taken that into account when you took them to arbitration, you might not have gotten Nicolau.

"Let's Vote!!!," BTW, won't make Nicolau go away. It's a shame that the Angry Lifetime FO Club is telling people they can somehow cram DOH down the West's throat. Won't happen.

 

[nostradamus]

They would hold less equipment, lesser seats, and be closer to furlough--each year was worth less. Had you guys taken that into account when you took them to arbitration, you might not have gotten Nicolau.

"Let's Vote!!!," BTW, won't make Nicolau go away. It's a shame that the Angry Lifetime FO Club is telling people they can somehow cram DOH down the West's throat. Won't happen.

Clue, alpa cheerleader now, critic earlier.

Reviewing your posts starting in January 03, shows your disdain for alpa and pilots. Post number 108 is an interesting opinion that all pilots agree on now regarding alpa.

 

[end_of_alpa]

They would hold less equipment, lesser seats, and be closer to furlough--each year was worth less. Had you guys taken that into account when you took them to arbitration, you might not have gotten Nicolau.

"Let's Vote!!!," BTW, won't make Nicolau go away. It's a shame that the Angry Lifetime FO Club is telling people they can somehow cram DOH down the West's throat. Won't happen.

Wanna bet?