ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[sharktooth]

I don't think he knew, at least with enough lead time to do anything about it. Also remember that the proposed deal with ATA had not materialized and he had to run an airline in the here and now.

It is now known Parker was given the go-ahead one and a half years before the merger was announced. That is plenty of time to stabilize the employee count. The pilots weren't "stuffing the list" to make themselves appear larger, were they?

Because America West was stable at that time, making profits at that time, and promotions to the left seat were occuring faster than at just about any other major.

Just curious. If AWA was making profits, why the Parker lecture about how, without leeching off another carrier, AWA was headed for liquidation? Parker had to renegotiate the Federal loan at least twice that we know of and still could not make payments without outside help. USAirways turned out to be your white knight. I guess you could call yourself "stable", in between creditor's calls.

I don't see any potential for a viable lawsuit against the company. East unions and furloughees may be a different scenario, but I am not knowledgeable about East labor issues pre-merger to come to any kind of presumptive conclusion.

If the company had pilot new-hires despite knowing they would have to bring back pilot furloughees, in essence, placing new-hires ahead of furloughees, it seems there might be cause to sue. Seems the same union could have blown the whistle.

 

[Leonidas]

The question is: why was America West hiring when they knew there would be a "merger"? Doug had to know what was coming down when hiring started. Bringing the furloughees back first would have worked in his favor.

Side question: knowing the above, why would anyone go to work at America West as a new hire? Unless they thought they could leverage themselves in the manner that played out.

The new question becomes: When the furloughee, who is entitled to "that" seat, is aced out by management, should not the union try to step up and fix things first, before a merged list is compiled? It seems to me the furloughees have a potential of two additional lawsuits should nic go into effect, another against the union and a new one against the company.

AWA was hiring furloughed pilots from Continental, United, American, TWA, and Usair, I know all those guys were very thankful to crapy old awa for a job, Awa was one of 2 airlines hiring at a time when your pos airline had 2300 on the street and still furloughing. Did you forget about that? Aparently Scabs have short memories.

 

[sharktooth]

I think it is somewhat ignorant to assume the merger was a "done deal" prior to 5/19/05. Therefore he continued to operate as though it may fall through.

Well, I guess with that thought process we can safely assume you are not management. I said AWA board gave Parker the go-ahead eighteen months before the announcement. I can safely say that they knew the deal was a go when the US pilots gave them "a deal, any deal." AWA hiring should have stopped at that point.

Just who, exactly, knew the merger was coming? Certainly none of us on the line knew but maybe you have a special "red phone" with a direct line to Dougweiser...

Parker is a hack. I would hardly think he would be a credible source.

First let's agree that there is no such thing as a national seniority list. Having said that let's agree that none of us (east or west) could directly affect the other's list prior to the merger. So one is left to believe that your seniority is only "good" at your own airline. Fact is the east never complained concerning the merger policy prior to the award. Only after it came out did we see the outrage. So on what grounds would one sue? You have now decided, after the fact, that you no longer like the ALPA merger policy? ...Why do I even waste my time... Good luck everyone!

Sorry, the closest thing to a national seniority list is DOH. and if seniority is only good at "your" airline, then, welcome to USAirways, call-sign, "USAirways". Dispatch and most of the operations are still located at PIT. The entire east side profits are supporting the west side losses.

The east side has indeed bitterly complained about merger policy prior to nic. In fact, quite a few pilots were upset about the first nic award as the shuttle dudes had signed away their eastern DOH. Your knowledge of the past is pretty skimpy, I guess it would be natural to fill in so that your world view is supported, even though it does not comport with reality.

Seems to me you have lost your way.

 

[CactusFlyr]

It is registered to a PO Box in San Diego.

As I said.....questionable????

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

USAPA President’s Message

USAPA – ALPA Communications

The battle for Representation


Fellow Pilots,

As a pilot group, we are quickly arriving at a crossroad that will give you an opportunity to make positive changes in your career. Starting on March 20th and continuing for four weeks, you will be able to vote your choice of union representation, either the Air Line Pilots Association or the US Airline Pilots Association. From now until the end of the vote you will be, undoubtedly, inundated with information from both USAPA and ALPA and I encourage you to take full advantage and read the information provided so that you make an informed decision. While you are reading the information presented to you, we challenge you to understand not just the content, but the intent of the communiqués that you receive.

As you read through the communications of both USAPA and ALPA, you will start to notice a common thread or tone relating to each organization. For USAPA’s part, the communications are progressive and forward looking as we focus on presenting to you the framework of our new union and the benefits it will bring to every US Airways pilot. Although the USAPA Constitution is available for every US Airways pilot to read on the USAPA website (www.usairlinepilots.org), USAPA Communications is tasked with getting our pilots familiar with the Constitution and highlighting the great many advantages that it affords the US Airways pilots.

For ALPA National’s part, to-date their communications have seemed to focus on developing uncertainty and fear in order to sway our pilots away from USAPA. Let me give you some recent examples. ALPA headline communications have asked “who will represent my interests in Washington,†and “I vote for guaranteed benefits,†referring to insurance policies that ALPA sells to its pilots.

The items that ALPA brings up are certainly important, and I can assure you that the hard working volunteers of USAPA have them covered and we will present the information to you. But my point here is that to-date, ALPA is simply relying on frightening our pilots away from USAPA, and that ALPA is using this communication path because quite frankly, they can not run on their track record here at US Airways.

Our MEC has frequently reminded us that we are in uncharted waters concerning our situation inside ALPA. USAPA on the other hand, is on solid ground, aligning itself and following the footsteps of many successful organizations such as UPS, SWAPA and the Allied Pilots Association. We arrive at this point because of the dedication, energy and resolve of so many US Airways pilots who want their union, and their advisors, to advocate solely for the US Airways pilots.

I am confident that when the time comes, our pilots will focus on the issues and choose the road that offers success for all US Airways pilots. USAPA is the pilot’s choice.

Fraternally,


Stephen Bradford,
US Airline Pilots Association
Interim President

 

[767jetz]

Sorry, the closest thing to a national seniority list is DOH. and if seniority is only good at "your" airline, then, welcome to USAirways, call-sign, "USAirways". Dispatch and most of the operations are still located at PIT. The entire east side profits are supporting the west side losses.

Hmmm... I believe corporate headquarters is in Phoenix, isn't it? How America West Airlines chooses to use the assets it purchases is irrelevant.

Also, didn't the West cover your payroll for a while at the onset of the merger, since USAirways was already in the grave? Seems to me like there would be no profits to speak of, absent the merger.

So, tell me again... who has lost their way?

Now, Flame On...

 

[767jetz]

From ALPA communications:

"Vote ALPA! Reach out to Your Colleagues at US Airways


In response to a group of US Airways pilots who are attempting to end ALPA representation, the National Mediation Board has set an election that will start on March 20. It is time for all of us to show our support to all US Airways pilots and let them know that we will stand by them as they face this critical decision about their future. It is our responsibility not only to inform them of what they will lose by leaving the union, but also to let them know that we want them in our union.

Time is of the essence. Show your solidarity with them by wearing your ALPA pin and blue lanyard starting now. We must all send a resounding message to these pilots that we will fight to keep our US Airways brothers and sisters represented by the strongest pilot union in the world.

Encourage all US Airways pilots to become informed about their choice. ALPA pilots can learn more about that choice by checking out a new webpage – votealpa.org – that plainly demonstrates why ALPA is the pilots union."

 

[Phoenix]

From ALPA communications:

"Vote ALPA! Reach out to Your Colleagues at US Airways


In response to a group of US Airways pilots who are attempting to end ALPA representation, the National Mediation Board has set an election that will start on March 20.

 

[sharktooth]

As I said.....questionable????

What about a post office box in San Diego makes it "questionable"?

Would it mean more to be registered in Newark or Houston? What about Denver? Would San Juan be out of the question? Herndon?

Best of all, you should look up the rules concerning who registers a web site. It is rarely the person "owning" the site. It is more likely an IT dude/dudette who maintains the site.

 

[b737fo]

From USAPA:
We have been asked many times about the timing of a PHX Road Show; our first PHX show, already scheduled, had to be canceled due to the unavailability of USAPA Officers and volunteers. Regretfully, until the Company grants the USAPA Officers and volunteers the same scheduling flexibility enjoyed by ALPA, we will be unable to commit to a PHX Show. Your USAPA Officers and volunteers are flying full schedules, and many of us commute to Reserve as well. Such a schedule simply does not allow the time necessary to arrange for a show hours away from domicile. We are hopeful that this situation will change.


Why am I not surprised one bit?

I would think that the volunteers who want to "represent East and West fairly" would jump at the opportunity to come out to PHX and tell the Westies how and why USAPA will provide a better organization to represent the interests' of all LCC pilots. In fact if one was so inclined then one could be in PHX by 9:27 AM on flight 1505 and be back to CLT on flight 1550.

This has the appearance of a two class system in representation and the voting window has not even opened yet.

Bravo USAPA!!

 

[sharktooth]

Hmmm... I believe corporate headquarters is in Phoenix, isn't it? How America West Airlines chooses to use the assets it purchases is irrelevant.

Yes, corporate headquarters is in the (very hesitant) process of moving to PHX. Your point is?

You are correct that any corporation may use assets it purchases any way they wish. AWA did not purchase USAir or any part thereof. As has been stated time and again, money was raised by USAirways for the bankruptcy exit and for the merger with AWA. Lakefield, with the permission of the USAirways board did that. Not AWA. No way, anyway.

As far as "payroll". One of the stipulations of the merger is that certain accounting items were to be handled by PHX. Any investment money used for payroll came from the work of the CEO of USAirways and not from operating assets of AWA.

 

[767jetz]

Yes, corporate headquarters is in the (very hesitant) process of moving to PHX. Your point is?

I don't know? It was your point to begin with, remember? You were the one pointing out that operations and dispatch were still in PIT, and the radio call sign is USAirways. So I was just following on with your train of thought and pointing out one more equally irrelevant fact that you missed.

So what was YOUR point? 🙄

You are correct that any corporation may use assets it purchases any way they wish. AWA did not purchase USAir or any part thereof. As has been stated time and again, money was raised by USAirways for the bankruptcy exit and for the merger with AWA. Lakefield, with the permission of the USAirways board did that. Not AWA. No way, anyway.

As far as "payroll". One of the stipulations of the merger is that certain accounting items were to be handled by PHX. Any investment money used for payroll came from the work of the CEO of USAirways and not from operating assets of AWA.

Sounds like you have an answer for everything and got it all figured out.

OK then... 🙄

I guess justifications are only valid and "factual" when they support YOUR view, but not when others try to support their view. This has been th East's problem since day one. There is no rationalizing with the irrational.

 

[sharktooth]

I don't know? It was your point to begin with, remember? You were the one pointing out that operations and dispatch were still in PIT, and the radio call sign is USAirways. So I was just following on with your train of thought and pointing out one more equally irrelevant fact that you missed.

So what was YOUR point?

You implied that PHX seems to be the corporate hub and I simply was pointing out that the original US corporate hub, CCY, is still operational. In fact, command and control still come from PIT. You seem to be in the 1800s when it comes to corporate structure.

There is no rationalizing with the irrational.

Well, we agree on something, except, in your case, I prefer to replace irrational with ignorant, until you show me you are willfully lying, sole sourcing your history from only one side tends to lead to lopsided arguments and you encounter the very thing you complain about.

 

[CactusFlyr]

What about a post office box in San Diego makes it "questionable"?

Would it mean more to be registered in Newark or Houston? What about Denver? Would San Juan be out of the question? Herndon?

Best of all, you should look up the rules concerning who registers a web site. It is rarely the person "owning" the site. It is more likely an IT dude/dudette who maintains the site.

yes

 

[AAA73Pilot]

From ALPA communications:

"Vote ALPA! Reach out to Your Colleagues at US Airways


In response to a group of US Airways pilots who are attempting to end ALPA representation, the National Mediation Board has set an election that will start on March 20. It is time for all of us to show our support to all US Airways pilots and let them know that we will stand by them as they face this critical decision about their future. It is our responsibility not only to inform them of what they will lose by leaving the union, but also to let them know that we want them in our union.

What is it that ALPA doesn't get? Why do they want us so badly? When we don't want them!! To put up such a fight to keep someone who doesn't want to be there? There has got to be a bigger picture. Maybe they want to keep our dues money? Our numbers? What have we received so far? The pure arrogance of we know best is simply amazing. Look what it's got us so far. So please Mr. Delta pilot tell me how you're going to stand by me. I really want to know how you're my brother, at the same time trying your level best to put me on the street. Like Prater said at a road show, "I'm just a pilot like you". BS. It's not my fault. Is that what you're going to tell me? But I support my management and company. No thanks ALPA, with brothers like you, who really needs enemies?

Time is of the essence. Show your solidarity with them by wearing your ALPA pin and blue lanyard starting now. We must all send a resounding message to these pilots that we will fight to keep our US Airways brothers and sisters represented by the strongest pilot union in the world.

All I have to ask is why? Do you really think your ALPA pin and lanyard is going to make me want to vote for the same BS I've received for the last 22 years? No thanks!! Strong? Only in your mind.

Encourage all US Airways pilots to become informed about their choice. ALPA pilots can learn more about that choice by checking out a new webpage – votealpa.org – that plainly demonstrates why ALPA is the pilots union."

Yea, tell me what a great choice you are. Even the west pilots have said they have no love for ALPA. We are informed, that is why your FUD hasn't and won't work.