If all the airlines were doing well, then why was it necessary for the TWU to accept the B-scale type contract that has become the bane of the industry?
Amfa Organizers - Tulsa Distribution
- Thread starter RV4
- Start date
Buck, how convenient. Don't answer the question asked and then revise history.Buck said:
The B-scale was instituted, because among other factors, it released lots of capital to buy airplanes and expand. If AA had not gone with Crandall's growth plan you would not have made it thru the door, they would have slammed the application window shut right after I and the rest of the group laid off in 1980 got recalled, if we had gotten recalled. Then or later.
The company also seems to have relaxed the hiring standards at about that time, so part of your time on B-scale was time many others had spend getting experience elswhere.
Now cry me a bucket about your experience; and when you are done explain why you hired on if the pay was so terrible?
Still another question: do you demand that the tire changer at Wal Mart be a fully qualified licensed auto technician, or do you settle for someone skill qualified for that job? I suppose you would like to layoff all the OSMs in the seat shop, wheel shop etc. Then you have a grievance when the company farms that work out and the TWU didn't do anything to protect those jobs for highly trained technicians, right?
AMFAMAN if the 1983 contract was such a POS, why did you either hire under it, which I suspect you did, or else quit. Back then there were lots of other airlines around and all doing well.j7915 said:
It would appear that you asked AMFAMAN the question. Are you really so confused?
Thats your solution for all you twu boys, if you don't like it quit. Nevermind trying to fix the problem because that might mean you will find yourself back on the floor and off your U.B. 
"The B-scale was instituted, because among other factors, it released lots of capital to buy airplanes and expand. If AA had not gone with Crandall's growth plan you would not have made it thru the door, they would have slammed the application window shut right after I and the rest of the group laid off in 1980 got recalled, if we had gotten recalled. Then or later."
Its true that B-scale gave AA extra capital to use for expansion but AA is not the only airline that expanded during this period, the whole industry expanded. What B-scale did was give AA a huge cost advantage over its competitors, many of whom had the more militant IAM to deal with. This allowed AA to expand at a greater rate than its competitors while earning more profits, at the expense of its lower paid employees. So maybe you are right, if the TWU had not given AA B-scale they may not be working here, but then again, without the disadvantage of AA lower costs other carriers would likely have expanded more, they would have been working somewhere else and all of us would have probably made a lot more money.
"The company also seems to have relaxed the hiring standards at about that time, so part of your time on B-scale was time many others had spend getting experience elswhere."
Yes they did because they could not hold on to workers. Mechanics were leaving as fast as they could hire them. The could no longer hold on to their 5 year experience requirement when they had a 12 year progression (vs 5 for everyone else) and were paying $10/hr (vs $14).
By the way I dont shop at WALMART. What kind of a Union person would?
Its true that B-scale gave AA extra capital to use for expansion but AA is not the only airline that expanded during this period, the whole industry expanded. What B-scale did was give AA a huge cost advantage over its competitors, many of whom had the more militant IAM to deal with. This allowed AA to expand at a greater rate than its competitors while earning more profits, at the expense of its lower paid employees. So maybe you are right, if the TWU had not given AA B-scale they may not be working here, but then again, without the disadvantage of AA lower costs other carriers would likely have expanded more, they would have been working somewhere else and all of us would have probably made a lot more money.
"The company also seems to have relaxed the hiring standards at about that time, so part of your time on B-scale was time many others had spend getting experience elswhere."
Yes they did because they could not hold on to workers. Mechanics were leaving as fast as they could hire them. The could no longer hold on to their 5 year experience requirement when they had a 12 year progression (vs 5 for everyone else) and were paying $10/hr (vs $14).
By the way I dont shop at WALMART. What kind of a Union person would?
<much deleted>
By the way I dont shop at WALMART. What kind of a Union person would?
Unfortunately lots of folks here in Okie land. In some areas they really have no choice anymore. The killer store from Arkansas has set its roots. Sort of like kudzu
By the way I dont shop at WALMART. What kind of a Union person would?
Unfortunately lots of folks here in Okie land. In some areas they really have no choice anymore. The killer store from Arkansas has set its roots. Sort of like kudzu
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Well maybe you guys should do what you expect all of us to do for the sake of "Solidarity"-DO WITHOUT!!!j7915 said:<much deleted>
By the way I dont shop at WALMART. What kind of a Union person would?
Unfortunately lots of folks here in Okie land. In some areas they really have no choice anymore. The killer store from Arkansas has set its roots. Sort of like kudzu
Maybe you should move to where you can shop in Union friendly stores.
Hey its your choice to live and support your anti-union RTW state and its businesses!
Thats your solution for all you twu boys, if you don't like it quit. Nevermind trying to fix the problem because that might mean you will find yourself back on the floor and off your U.B.
Psssst....we're not the ones running like Delle, wanting to blame someone else, maybe I'm missing something here but you're the quitters here...If AMFA would get in I'd vote for all our local AMFA organizers for office...that would be your just rewards...Imagine...Danny and TA with Pete as treasurer...that would almost be worth seeing and in the same breathe hope your job would depend on them....good luck, you'll need it.
Psssst....we're not the ones running like Delle, wanting to blame someone else, maybe I'm missing something here but you're the quitters here...If AMFA would get in I'd vote for all our local AMFA organizers for office...that would be your just rewards...Imagine...Danny and TA with Pete as treasurer...that would almost be worth seeing and in the same breathe hope your job would depend on them....good luck, you'll need it.
Trust me on this one Buck...I'd guarantee you if any one action could strike the AMFA movement it would be to see these guys at the helm of your profession. Ya have one that hasn't paid Federal Tax in years, one that dreams of owning his own 7-11 someday..and one that likes to hide and assume no one knows who he is.
You may not like my opinions but I do not hide behind an alias nor do I blame others for matters that have been democratically voted on.
You may not like my opinions but I do not hide behind an alias nor do I blame others for matters that have been democratically voted on.
Has'nt paid Federal Taxes?, I have no problem with this, as if he is illegal he will get caught. The dream of owning ones own business, that seems reasonable, as there are many in my profession who own their own business and continue to work at AA. There are some who are biding their time to get their businesses started. Someone hiding, I see no relevance. Hiding behind an alias is trivial, We have already gone over this issue here. As for your opinions, I will always give you that. But you appear to be closed minded when it comes to looking at the information about AMFA. You appear to gain your knowledge from others who are also just not going to change no matter what, even if it ruins their profession.
And again I see the rantings coming from the TWU and you from AMFA.
So this does not get us anywhere. Why is it that the majority of the members at the line stations are looking to remove the TWU?
So this does not get us anywhere. Why is it that the majority of the members at the line stations are looking to remove the TWU?
Since you asked Buck..and I was waiting for this one bigtime..here goes.
Look at the history of the airlines that AMFA has secured as bargaining agent. AMFA has shown a direct approach to outsourcing. AMFA, in their allowing outsourcing to be so high, is attempting to do away with the overhaul bases as we know it and going to a line only mechanic status, thus raising the pay of the few mechanics left. So you counter with but then there would be less dues...do the math in the $$$
You have already witnessed the wantings of the line mechs to split from the OH mechs..and why?
Just my thoughts...but you asked.
Look at the history of the airlines that AMFA has secured as bargaining agent. AMFA has shown a direct approach to outsourcing. AMFA, in their allowing outsourcing to be so high, is attempting to do away with the overhaul bases as we know it and going to a line only mechanic status, thus raising the pay of the few mechanics left. So you counter with but then there would be less dues...do the math in the $$$
You have already witnessed the wantings of the line mechs to split from the OH mechs..and why?
Just my thoughts...but you asked.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
The "wanting of the line mechs" is driven by the fact that OH usually has the numbers to determine the contract. This majority status enjoyed by overhaul puts the line guys, and their needs at a serious disadvantage.Steve Connell said:
Overhaul is often located in low cost of living areas where other than the airline, similar wages could not be found, should the airline close its operations. As a result the company uses the threat of closing the base to drive down wages and extract other concessions. The company can do this because the union fails to make keeping the bases open a strike issue. In fact the union fails to make ANYTHING a strike issue. So overhaul responds to threats by accepting concessions. These concessions present a severe hardship on the line workers who live in high cost areas. The hardship is not felt equally because costs are not equal. So while a mechanic in Kansas City may still be able to afford the living standards of a professional, such as an engineer or accountant even with the paycuts the mechanic in NYC or LAX is reduced to less than a garbage man.
This issue could be rectified with proper leadership. Either start acting like a union, and tell the company that the bases will be maintained or we all walk, or take into account the cost of living differences so that line guys are not penalized because the company has OH. The fact is that line guys have no objection to OH making really god money and living high lifestyles, many line guys have taken advantage of this and moved to these low cost areas. We only object to OH forcing our rates down to the point where we qualify for "low income" housing.
The fact is that a tire change is worth more in NY than it is in KC. Just like a House is worth more, Terminal space is worth more, landing rights, fuel, electricity and just about everything else. If you are not willing to fight to maintain your above local market rates compensation then a means must be found where you dont drive us down to unacceptable local rates.
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