APFA Proposes Dues Increase

[butchord45]

Do some research and show me where the union said the last dues increase was for this round of negotiations.

Here is the research you asked for:

This is Leslie Mayo, National Communications Coordinator, with the remaining HotLine for Friday, April 19, 2002.

The National Ballot Committee and the accounting firm of Whitley Penn have certified the results of the dues referendum. There were 11,974 ballots counted. The referendum passed by a vote of 6,209 - yes and 5,763 - no, and two ballots were blank. The dues increase will begin July 1 and a total of three dollars of the monthly dues will be placed in a negotiations savings account for future contract negotiations. A breakdown of the vote will be posted on the APFA website shortly and will be available in Skyword, Issue 4.

So since.......July 1, 2002 3 dollars of monthly dues has been put in a savings account....here is some quick math .

66 months (ending dec 2007) X 3 dollars X 15,200 (f/a) that's conservative......= 3,009,600 in that account not including interest......WHERE IS THAT MONEY?????? Or maybe I read it wrong and they meant 3 dollars total not per f/a .....then it's only 198 dollars.

 

[jimntx]

So since.......July 1, 2002 3 dollars of monthly dues has been put in a savings account....here is some quick math .

66 months (ending dec 2007) X 3 dollars X 15,200 (f/a) that's conservative......= 3,009,600 in that account not including interest......WHERE IS THAT MONEY?????? Or maybe I read it wrong and they meant 3 dollars total not per f/a .....then it's only 198 dollars.

And, now that we once again have over 17,000 active f/as, by the end of this year there will be an additional $612,000 in the account (or $36 if we read it wrong ).

 

[upsilon]

And, now that we once again have over 17,000 active f/as, by the end of this year there will be an additional $612,000 in the account ....

But that won't take care of one month's phone bill according to:

I remember one month's phone bill from 1993 was 800,000 bucks. That was just for calls to the 800#.

I find it impossible to believe that statement. Annualized that amounts to almost $10 million!!!!
My company has six 800 numbers and a lot of customer traffic from all over the country and we pay a tiny fraction of that.

 

[youbetcha]

But that won't take care of one month's phone bill according to:


I find it impossible to believe that statement. Annualized that amounts to almost $10 million!!!!
My company has six 800 numbers and a lot of customer traffic from all over the country and we pay a tiny fraction of that.

It is absolutely a verifiable fact. Again, all you have to do is show up and ask to see the documentation. Remember, it was 1993 and we were going on strike. Calls came in en masse from all over the world.

As for the restricted fund, the money is there. That, too, is verifiable through viewing the financials with your Base Chair, IF you are a member in good standing. That fund is for an emergency in negotiations. If we were to go on strike again, there is no dues money coming in because none of us will have a paycheck. If it becomes an extended time period, APFA would reduce down to the bare bones, with no membership services except negotiations. We cannot capitulate because we don't have the money to continue negotiations while on strike.

As for complaints about answers that one receives at APFA, no worries there if there is no money. There will be no one to answer those FAs who truly need help, not just those who complain about their lot in life.

 

[butchord45]

But that won't take care of one month's phone bill according to:


I find it impossible to believe that statement. Annualized that amounts to almost $10 million!!!!
My company has six 800 numbers and a lot of customer traffic from all over the country and we pay a tiny fraction of that.

If that is to be believed then, AA must spend a fortune on phone bills. Doing some more math. I bet F/As call AVRS at least 10 times as much as they APFA. So 10 times 800,000 would be 8 million. So AA must spend around 8 million on the F/As just so they can find out their schedules?

Please someone padded the minutes or someone must have gotten a hold of the APFA calling cards and started calling faraway places or 900 numbers.

 

[youbetcha]

If that is to be believed then, AA must spend a fortune on phone bills. Doing some more math. I bet F/As call AVRS at least 10 times as much as they APFA. So 10 times 800,000 would be 8 million. So AA must spend around 8 million on the F/As just so they can find out their schedules?

Please someone padded the minutes or someone must have gotten a hold of the APFA calling cards and started calling faraway places or 900 numbers.

Feel free to contact Jack Barnett, 1993 Treasurer, for confirmation. He is currently a line Flight Attendant. We were going on strike. Expenses go through the roof when that happens.

 

[jimntx]

Here is the research you asked for:

This is Leslie Mayo, National Communications Coordinator, with the remaining HotLine for Friday, April 19, 2002.

The National Ballot Committee and the accounting firm of Whitley Penn have certified the results of the dues referendum. There were 11,974 ballots counted. The referendum passed by a vote of 6,209 - yes and 5,763 - no, and two ballots were blank. The dues increase will begin July 1 and a total of three dollars of the monthly dues will be placed in a negotiations savings account for future contract negotiations.

As for the restricted fund, the money is there. That, too, is verifiable through viewing the financials with your Base Chair, IF you are a member in good standing. That fund is for an emergency in negotiations. If we were to go on strike again, there is no dues money coming in because none of us will have a paycheck. If it becomes an extended time period, APFA would reduce down to the bare bones, with no membership services except negotiations. We cannot capitulate because we don't have the money to continue negotiations while on strike.

As for complaints about answers that one receives at APFA, no worries there if there is no money. There will be no one to answer those FAs who truly need help, not just those who complain about their lot in life.

Ok, we were told at the time of the vote that the money was for future contract negotiations. Not a word was said about this will be a "restricted fund" to be used "for an emergency in negotiations." Did Leslie lie to us, or did the APFA decide (without bothering to clear it with the membership) to sidetrack the money for something else? There was no mention of only in emergencies when they asked for the money.

I don't know why you bother with being a f/a with your psychic abilities. You know all about my calls to the APFA without even listening in and you know that they are only complaining. With such a talent, you should be on TV.

As to the alleged $800,000/mo just for the 800 number...we don't need contract consultants, we need someone who knows telephone tariffs. Ma Bell must love to see the management of the APFA coming. My late wife dealt in telecommunications for years. There is no way we could have run up that kind of a bill. $800,00 a year, maybe. If it was a month, then as the opening song of the musical, Barnum, says, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute."

 

[upsilon]

I find it impossible to believe that statement. Annualized that amounts to almost $10 million!!!!

Remember, it was 1993 and we were going on strike. Calls came in en masse from all over the world.

Why would AA FAs be calling APFA from "all over the world"? Fifteen years ago AA didn't fly 'all over the world'. And BTW, 800 number are toll free only from (some) North American area codes!

I'm getting dizzy from the spin in your posts!

 

[youbetcha]

Why would AA FAs be calling APFA from "all over the world"? Fifteen years ago AA didn't fly 'all over the world'. And BTW, 800 number are toll free only from (some) North American area codes!

I'm getting dizzy from the spin in your posts!

AA was absolutely flying all over the world in 1993. Just ask the FAs who had to find their way home! An 800# is only free for the dialer, not the dialee. The dialee, APFA pays. Nothing is free.

If you are getting dizzy, then get off your own merry go round. Everything I have stated is verifiable. End of story.

 

[youbetcha]

Ok, we were told at the time of the vote that the money was for future contract negotiations. Not a word was said about this will be a "restricted fund" to be used "for an emergency in negotiations." Did Leslie lie to us, or did the APFA decide (without bothering to clear it with the membership) to sidetrack the money for something else? There was no mention of only in emergencies when they asked for the money.

I don't know why you bother with being a f/a with your psychic abilities. You know all about my calls to the APFA without even listening in and you know that they are only complaining. With such a talent, you should be on TV.

As to the alleged $800,000/mo just for the 800 number...we don't need contract consultants, we need someone who knows telephone tariffs. Ma Bell must love to see the management of the APFA coming. My late wife dealt in telecommunications for years. There is no way we could have run up that kind of a bill. $800,00 a year, maybe. If it was a month, then as the opening song of the musical, Barnum, says, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute."

A restricted fund is one that cannot be tapped for anything other than its stated purpose. Ours is restricted to negotiations. Of course one would want to save as much as possible for an emergency. That is only good business sense and acting responsibly. You don't blow the wad all at once with nothing left in reserve.

As to my being psychic, I was only referring to your former post as to how you perceive APFA reps respond to you.

Again, instead of hurling insults based on your own ignorance, which is always our downfall as a group, check it out. It's all in black and white. I believe that Jack Barnett is based at JFK. Send him a note. Go to HDQ and ask to see the financials, if you are a member in good standing. But, do not insist you are right when you have no knowledge of the facts. I don't believe you were even here then. I was. And I remember it very well.

In 1993, there was no such thing as unlimited long distance calling. Cell phone calls were a minimum of .35 a minute. When you hit an emergency state, such as going on strike, all bills go up drastically. That is common knowledge for anyone who has actually lived it.

The costs after a strike are also extraordinary as well. It takes months to get things back up and running normally along with dealing with the SCAB issues. A company will protect a SCAB for a max of 18months, at the harm of strikers and then they ditch them as well. The legal issues are constant.

But, what do I know. I've only lived it.

Not a whiner. Not a SCAB.

 

[jimntx]

Ah, yes. The "you young whippersnappers don't know what suffering is. We walked 40 miles each way to school in the snow with rags tied to our feet" argument. As I said earlier, the final answer is always "You'll understand when you are more senior. In the meantime, we know better. We're senior. We were here for the glorious strike of 1993."

As another poster here once put it...you weren't on the picket line long enough to exchange recipes. 3 whole days. What a sacrifice! The bills must have been enormous.

By the way, your insults and calling people ignorant has just firmed my resolve to vote NO. And, at least butchord45 came up with the proof asked for. All you've done is tell people that it's true, and arrange for another f/a's email to get flooded. I'm sure, he'll be thrilled.

By the way, it's a violation of the board terms of service to identify another person by name without their permission. Did you ask?

 

[upsilon]

An 800# is only free for the dialer, not the dialee. The dialee, APFA pays. Nothing is free.

You obviously don't fly AA international. Try connecting to an 800 number through AT&T Direct Dial and see what shows up on the credit card you used.

If APFA has a collect international call account, it was (as Jim says) in the P.T. Barnum poster boy/girl Hall of Fame!

The spin continues.....

 

[Skymess]

Every APFA Rep that I have dealt with welcomes a member's request to view and discuss the financials. If anyone has questions, they have an obligation to get the real facts and not spread false rumors that only cause the rest of us harm.

And, it goes without saying, the RPA Lawsuit has cost us all well over a million dollars of our dues monies. And, the cost continues. Someone on this board once asked me if those people win, would I give the money back. Let me ask this, if those people lose, yet again, will they pay the membership back the millions of dollars in dues monies we all paid? Millions that should be going to negotiations and representation? If they lose, I hope my APFA will aggressively pursue our lost dues monies. This group continually states that APFA is defending AA in the lawsuit. This group SUED APFA. APFA is defending itself, not AA. For them to state otherwise is just one more false allegation to gain false support.

I've seen the LM2's and saw way too many people on trip removal making too much money.

I've seen the neverending nonsense bag tags and ID tags that cost me money.

I agreed with the RPA lawsuit because I was appalled by the gall of APFA leadership to take away our right to vote.

You can call me a whiner all you want. I know the facts and the facts clearly state that something is wrong with the APFA. Somewhere along the way the perpetually trip removed (thanks Jim) lost sight of the fact that they work for the membership and that WE are the union not them.

 

[Skymess]

They are looking for additional funds to help with the expanded costs of negotiations. It requires more people, additional hours for outside counsel and experts. Even regular fixed costs go through the roof. Example our phone bill can run up to several hundred thousand dollars a month during negotiations.

My belief is give them all the money and tools they need and hold them accountable to an exceptional CBA. Then require an accountability of all the funds.

I dont understand going to battle with a company with almost unlimited funds and resource and not giving your own side everything it needs. When people want to Biggee size there seat MC to FC its cost a few more dollars. Same is true for a CBA. Wont the payoff be worth the investment?

I guess when they find they are out gunned and come back unable to fulfill the mandate of the membership, all the "NO" people will understand and not complain.

If I had faith in this leadership I might blindly vote myself into an increase. I have zero faith in them just based on their ridiculousness thus far.

I'm tired of their childish campaign of slogans. I'm tired of their rah rah rhetoric.

IF they intended to lead and wanted to earn our respect they wouldn't have pissed all of our money away on frivolous things that don't mean anything to anyone but them.

Here's an example: They gave us the resign/decline tag to wear behind our id. I threw mine out because I thought it was dumb. People I saw wearing it were NEVER asked what it meant because nobody noticed it and nobody cared.

If you wanted to lead by example you cut costs like your membership is doing. You don't take all of their money and start madly spending it, especially during negotiations. Shouldn't they know this? PR doesn't mean squat vs. saving your money for things you really need to spend it on. It's like buying yourself something frivolous vs. paying your rent. Maybe APFA is looking for a bailout?

Wouldn't it have been more powerful to tell the membership to fold a dollar bill like a ribbon and wear it behind our wings? Everytime I have done so EVERYONE asks why it is there. Cheap and effective and doesn't take a trip removed think tank to come up with.

I'm just sick of the nonsense. I have no faith in them as a result of their nonsense.

 

[czerny]

If I had faith in this leadership I might blindly vote myself into an increase. I have zero faith in them just based on their ridiculousness thus far.

Chris, my sentiments exactly. They could care less about junior flight attendants and/or speakers and it's a no vote from me.