AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Yeah, there's your "it is what it is".

There's your inability to dispute the truth of things as they actually are, versus how you would have them be.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well EastPus, you've had two rebuttals that said it better than I could. All you have left is bluster and "it's someone else's fault." What a surprise...NOT.

BTW, the movie of your life was dead on - constantly braying but saying nothing...

Curious... By deed, both sides have resorted to litigation to resolve these differences. Though costly and time consuming, this was essentially the compelling venue of choice, if not the only venue at that time, to obtain remedy. Do you both agree?

Wrong - the east tried to use the force of numbers while the west was left with only the court to defend the result of the process agreed to by both sides. Only one side - the east - did not live up to it's agreement to settle the seniority issue by final and binding arbitration.

Phoenix,

Once it left Wake's court, no other court has ruled on the merits of the west case. Technically, SCOTUS didn't even issue a ruling - by not hearing the case it left the 9th's ripeness ruling in place - a ripeness ruling only.

One would certainly think that 1 of 3 easties would get something right but revisionist history is alive and well back east...

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

Well EastPus, you've had two rebuttals that said it better than I could.

That fails to constitute any honest basis for surprise. I've gently suggested you would do well to save yourself further distress and just substitute the donkey's far more erudtite and elegant braying instead.

 

[Move2CLT]

Unfortunately, one side thought the outcome was so bad, that it prevented the entire group from getting a contract. Checks and balances prevent the list from being used. A marrige never conummated. Multiple oppportunities were offered to make it work, but no solution could be agreed upon. It is time to move forward with a contract that will benefit all. A permanent fence for the west if that is what they want.

Uh, no. You guys are the only ones that want fences, not us.

 

[Move2CLT]

[background=transparent]The pilot that sent this just thinking out loud about what ifs. Food for thought[/background]

[background=transparent]Musings from Munich:[/background]

[background=transparent]In discussing many of the union issues with other pilots, there are several theories being offered that might shed some light into the current situation. Here goes:[/background]

[background=transparent]The company knows that they are about to get hammered in the PIC findings and resultant court decisions. It’s already been proven that Bryan falsified the form 5500 filings dealing with our pension. The company intentionally defrauded the pilots in order to steal our pension, an apparent common and accepted corporate strategy these days. Shockingly, the PIC is finding complicity on the part of the PBGC. This strategy was at the direction of the Seabury Group in order to put the AW-US merger together. They have promised Hummel and a couple of other pilots soft landings in exchange for them making the pension “problem” go away. That’s why Streble said that there was no money left in the fund to support further committee investigation. The only other explanation here is that Streble is in way over his head and is totally incompetent. (How do you not know where hundreds of thousands of dollars are?!) [/background]
[background=transparent]Kirby is controlling Hummel. Hence, the firings of Paul DiOrio and a host of others that would interfere with the master plan: becoming “bitches” for an AA merger. Kirby wanted the MOU to go out for a vote to get feelers on how many yes votes such a low ball offer would garner. This information could be used in order to find the lowest common denominator needed to put an “improved” offer over the top. They know we have many scared, weak-dick, or otherwise dumb ass pilots who will be happy to help the cause. (Thanks, Munn) [/background]
[background=transparent]Will an AA merger ever go through? Who knows. But, now we have convenient distractions (like the non-disclosure agreement) which not only keeps us from negotiating our long overdue contract but diverts attention away from the PBGC hearings which will be taking place soon. If you don’t believe for one moment that Parker, Kirby, and the rest are part of white collar organized crime, you’re an idiot. There is no room for a (self-titled) “peacemaker” in dealing with these crooks.[/background]
[background=transparent]Am I bitter, insulted, disgusted, and outraged about what our profession has devolved into? Hell yes, and you should be too! Folks, either grow a pair and get involved to further your careers here or, please, find some other place to work. We’re going to be on the receiving end of a smack down worse than LOA 93. How many more times is the pilot group going to vote to screw themselves? Take some time to write your reps and officers. If they’re acting on behalf of their own best self-interests and not ours as a whole, we should consider some new faces.[/background]

First off, the idiot thinks we're negotiating a contract which we are not.

Secondly, the idiot thinks he's not in negotiations because of the NDA.

Luv, could you let the idiot that wrote this know that you've been parked for a while now because of Cleary.

Thanks.

 

[Move2CLT]

He pulled the MOU as a tactical move. He wants the rank-and-file to think there was something of intrinsic value, and he now had second thoughts on it. It will probably be offered again in substantially the same form, and the pilots (the panty-wetting "Let my daddy vote" crowd) will vote in favor of it by a narrow margin.

Ya, that's it.

The only thing you got correct was the it MAY be offered again if your reps come back with a yes recommend. And it will be the EXACT same MOU.

 

[Move2CLT]

Did you graduate from the Point EC? Just curious. I've (long ago now) 😉 met a couple of guys that had done so, but elected to go USAF rather than Army. Fast, shiny jet syndrome hit them.

While mentioning things military; if anyone wants some fast fun....just imagine having some arbitrator re-order the pecking order at any Academy and placing plebes into the upper class, based on the fact that when they were accepted, they held the status of seniors at their high school. 😉

That's just f'ing stupid.

Take yourself up a notch off the moron peg please.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've gently suggested you would do well to save yourself further distress and just substitute the donkey's far more erudtite and elegant braying instead.

And infringe on your territory? You've got a patent on nonsensical braying...

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

First off, the idiot....

Secondly, the idiot....

Luv, could you let the idiot....

A common theme runs rampant throughout your posting history. Would you care to guess what that might be? Hint: "idiot" invariably plays a central role in constructing the story's arc. 😉

 

[Zone5]

Unfortunately, one side thought the outcome was so bad, that it prevented the entire group from getting a contract. Checks and balances prevent the list from being used. A marrige never conummated. Multiple oppportunities were offered to make it work, but no solution could be agreed upon. It is time to move forward with a contract that will benefit all. A permanent fence for the west if that is what they want.

True enough. Without a "marriage" there can be no "divorce", both parties remain "single" and free to seek a different "relationship".


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

That's just f'ing stupid.

Kindly expand on why that seems so to you, if you can.....? The example properly reflects the notions of relative seniority. Should not a high school senior be kept equally senior when transferring to an academy? 😉 If no...then why not? Shouldn't everyone always be properly maintained at their relative positions? You can't possibly be even implying that the essential concepts behind arbitrated and relative seniority are indeed "just f'ing stupid".....?

 

[BoeingBoy]

You are indeed getting desperate if that's all the reasoning you've got...

Jim

 

[Graceson]

Wrong - the east tried to use the force of numbers while the west was left with only the court to defend the result of the process agreed to by both sides. Only one side - the east - did not live up to it's agreement to settle the seniority issue by final and binding arbitration.

I understand your points, thanks. I can see my meaning wasn't clear.1) The East used the force of numbers and the East failed to live up to their agreement.2) The West pursued remedy by way of litigation, and received remedy.3) The East appealed and the West's remedy was not invalidated, but deferred.By deed, both sides have resorted to litigation to resolve differences. This was essentially the compelling venue of coice, if not the only venue at that time (before the advent of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment), if not the only venue at that time, to obtain remedy. Do you agree?

 

[EastUS1]

You are indeed getting desperate if that's all the reasoning you've got...

A typically brilliant rebuttal on your part....yet you and the other nic zealots clearly find yourselves entirely unable to refute the contained logic....Most amusing indeed. 😉

 

[Phoenix]

You do know that only Judge Wake (you know the one you dismiss as the Desert Judge) bothered to listen to the case and saw USAPA's attempt to circumvent the arbitration as "100% win for the east and 100% loss for the west". Subsequent courts only ruled on whether the potential for a DFR in such a scheme (absent USAPA actually pulling the trigger by implementing DOH) was something into which the court should intervene.

Try honesty on for size. I know it doesn't suit you, but it doesn't fall apart everytime you put it on.

Judge Wake had the professionalism to admit he was wrong and he would never have the infantile reaction of slandering the court system or the defendants. He in no way supports the disgraceful libel and slander many on these boards so casually cast about. Have some integrity.