AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Crzipilot]

Yes I am. When this "merger" was consumated I was a captain with 7 years at AWA. US Airways had pilots at the very bottom of their list, FO's on reserve who "worked far longer than myself".

I have no intention of stepping aside simply because your bottom dwelling FO's chose to cling to a crappy job at a failing carrier. I chose AWA and never considered applying to the failing carrier because I saw a better future at AWA.

If you fools were to get your way I would have pilots who were on furlough, with no more than 6 years of active service placed more than 700 numbers senior to me.

Unacceptable.

Interesting to say the least. So you had 7 yrs when the merger was consumated. So go back 7 years and that was what. '98? So your saying in '98 AWA was the best value, and had the best outlook going forward of all the majors out there? Uhmmm...ok, ya right. I think the hundreds of f/o's that churned the bottom of your seniority list at that time would beg to differ....

Sounds like the guy that was on my J/S discussing the whole deal. His explanation of choosing AWA in '99 was the fact that he noticed the rapid turnover. So he could rise in seniority fairly quickly and hold that left seat real fast. As he was coming out of the military and didn't want to wait 10yrs for the left seat, he wanted it ASAP. And the NIC itself was going to help him achieve that goal. Simple explanation that back in '99 AWA wasn't exactly burning the trail on f/o pay etc etc, he said it didn't matter as with the amount of turn over he would have reached the left seat quickly and gotten the golden ring, but the merger put a nix on that......whatever..

 

[nevergiveup]

Yes I am. When this "merger" was consumated I was a captain with 7 years at AWA. US Airways had pilots at the very bottom of their list, FO's on reserve who "worked far longer than myself".

I have no intention of stepping aside simply because your bottom dwelling FO's chose to cling to a crappy job at a failing carrier. I chose AWA and never considered applying to the failing carrier because I saw a better future at AWA.

If you fools were to get your way I would have pilots who were on furlough, with no more than 6 years of active service placed more than 700 numbers senior to me.

Unacceptable.

You had multiple chances for a fence that would keep the NIC. You said no. Don't blame others for you choices. You have created your own destiny.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Greeter,

No issues with part of ur post I cut. I was simply shedding some light on possible " bias " 320 was promoting.

Let me remind you that The bottom of " never furloughed " east list completed 24 years of service this past July and your 1200 example 27 years the same month. So the 1200 class been here 12% longer. Now factor in the 1200 class has seen pay of c/o rate for possibly 80% plus of career. Not even a comparison with July 88 class.
Therefore I'm glad we're both ok with majority will.
You and I both have been sold out to varying degree by the senior folk in 80's & 90's.
Plz don't become one of those types.

FA

Thanks. My point was the BPR could actually be considered "junior" by some.And my assessment of what is wrong with the CLT reps (and perhaps the reason for the recall) is that that are so angry and determined to make up for "lost time" that they are refusing to simply look at "where we are" and what we will lose by not making a rational decision going forward, not looking back. Those very issues you mention (the most painful being the short span of years between an ok career and a suck one) are ruling the decision making. I am not running the recall, but that is my assessment. I have already signed the petitions. My reps are simply failing at the table. I have been able to see them in action a couple of times over the last few months, and it was not pretty.Greeter

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

LOL!!!!!!

There is not another person on this board that does more talking out of their a$$ than you do. The West is going nowhere and if you bothered to educate yourself, you would know that it is essential to the merger with AA to keep our marketshare in the West.

I don't know...after thinking about it for a few minutes I've concluded that you say things like this just to tick people off. NOBODY is this stupid.

Driver...

SHOVE IT! UNBIASED FACT BOY!

 

[fatherabraham]

Thanks. My point was the BPR could actually be considered "junior" by some.And my assessment of what is wrong with the CLT reps (and perhaps the reason for the recall) is that that are so angry and determined to make up for "lost time" that they are refusing to simply look at "where we are" and what we will lose by not making a rational decision going forward, not looking back. Those very issues you mention (the most painful being the short span of years between an ok career and a suck one) are ruling the decision making. I am not running the recall, but that is my assessment. I have already signed the petitions. My reps are simply failing at the table. I have been able to see them in action a couple of times over the last few months, and it was not pretty.Greeter

Greeter,
Not clt based so no experience in personal observations of " prettyness ".
I try hard to separate personalities from end game.......whether buying a car or voting on info I've been provided. From my seniority stance, it's just a matter of NOT enabling past practice changes for someone's view on their big pic neccesity/pov.
The 85-88 guys ( roughly 1/2 east ) are simply standing up for themselves .
Do you really think they should willingly " just suck it up " on the eve of long awaited upward movement? Me thinks NOT!

MM.......where ya been?

FA

 

[luvn737s]

You and I both have been sold out to varying degree by the senior folk in 80's & 90's.

Boogieman #278 - Senior fellow East Pilots

Will you ever run out of folks to blame?

 

[luvn737s]

You had multiple chances for a fence that would keep the NIC. You said no. Don't blame others for you choices. You have created your own destiny.

Both sides agreed to abide by the arbitrator's ruling, not to make up something else to appease one side. If I missed the part about fences in Nicolau's decsion, please correct me.

Why is doing the right thing so distasteful to all the east? Or are they merely not being given a chance to vote their conscience?

 

[nevergiveup]

Both sides agreed to abide by the arbitrator's ruling, not to make up something else to appease one side. If I missed the part about fences in Nicolau's decsion, please correct me.

Why is doing the right thing so distasteful to all the east? Or are they merely not being given a chance to vote their conscience?

Both sides are abiding by the arbitrator's ruling. The agreed upon TA prevents the NIC from being used. Putting up fences could have helped us get a contract, thereby allowing the NIC to be used. It is all somewhat pointless now. A CBA with USAPA and US AIrways is probably no longer an option. It is time to move forward. Pass the biscuits, please!

 

[traderjake]

SHOVE IT! UNBIASED FACT BOY!

Driver is not the author of Unbiased Facts.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

 

[fatherabraham]

Boogieman #278 - Senior fellow East Pilots

Will you ever run out of folks to blame?

The " sell out " list started with B scale. How bout replying to events you experienced instead of typical blather above?

FA

 

[nic4us]

You had multiple chances for a fence that would keep the NIC. You said no. Don't blame others for you choices. You have created your own destiny.

I got your fence right here scab.

 

[nevergiveup]

I got your fence right here scab.

One should learn the definition of a word before trying to use it.

 

[nic4us]

Both sides are abiding by the arbitrator's ruling. The agreed upon TA prevents the NIC from being used. Putting up fences could have helped us get a contract, thereby allowing the NIC to be used. It is all somewhat pointless now. A CBA with USAPA and US AIrways is probably no longer an option. It is time to move forward. Pass the biscuits, please!

Perhaps you missed it...about 2500 scabs on the east voted in a new association with the promise from a little lawyer that he could steal the West's positions for them and offer the company a "cost neutral contract in exchange for labor peace".

A CBA between usapa and LCC was never an option, as long as usapa sought to fail its DFR.

 

[nic4us]

One should learn the definition of a word before trying to use it.

I agree and suggest you quit using words such as "union" when describing usapa.

 

[nic4us]

1) I did, and as always; you can offer up NOTHING in the way of ANY moral defense there.

2) Really?...How did you move "backwards"? How does any west newhire move 'backwards" if instantly made "senior" to people with over a decade more years worked?

3) True. I'm personally just fine with opposing ANYthing as utterly immoral as the nic obscenity, and would believe myself to have lost ALL sense of rational decency if I felt otherwise!

1)....look up Ken Stravers...West merger committee chairman...his position, time in the left seat at merger, and compare it to Hershey, the east witness during the Nic arbitration who gave testimony why he as a 1000 deep furloughee should have Stravers' job.

2) If you can't figure it out from all the available factual data from the arbitration....there really is no point discussing it further.

3) There is nothing immoral or obscene about the Nic award. More of your BS to rationalize your untrustworthy behavior. This is the most troubling aspect of this whole issue. Res or another West poster made a comment that was right on the money. 3 highly regarded experts conduct an arbitration that uses numerous lawyers who are also tops in their field, and spend a couple million dollars, while giving everybody their chance to offer their stance and opinion...and a reneging scumbag can just declare the whole thing "immoral" because he was not given his pie in the sky fantasy of an over the top windfall?


usapa can shove their seniority theft scab agenda right up their collective a-holes. You and any other east pilot who supports usapa's scab adventure have absolutely zero credibility proclaiming anything as "immoral" or "obscene".